Foreign Language and the LSAT Forum

[RobertGolddust]

I'm moving to Spain in September to teach English. My Spanish is bad, so I will be diligently studying the language in the states and abroad. While abroad, I intend to take the LSAT in December. I am extremely curious to know if anyone has been in a situation where they learned a new language while studying the LSAT.

P.S. I have prepared extensively for the LSAT in the past. I'm a 160 guy with atrocious LG skills but decent LR/RC skills. Hoping to add a couple points...I'm thinking the Spanish might benefit my LR/RC just because of the improvement in grammar that usually goes along with studying a foreign language.

[Straw_Mandible]

Likely will not have any impact.

[RobertGolddust]

Likely will not have any impact.

Support your contention please.

[Splitter1415]

I studied for the LSAT while studying English. I think being forced to study for the TOEFL had a positive impact on my LSAT score. I have also been learning Spanish little by little, but have no idea if that helped.

[Pancakes12]

I anticipate a 7 point jump

But seriously why would it matter

[Straw_Mandible]

Likely will not have any impact.

Support your contention please.

Because LSAT performance has nothing to do with knowledge of "grammar" or any other generalized skills you think you might develop by studying a foreign language.

Also, you said that you were strongest in LR/RC and weakest in LG. Studying Spanish probably won't help you with any aspect of LSAT prep, but it will be especially useless for improving at logic games.

[RobertGolddust]

This I'll buy:

but it will be especially useless for improving at logic games.

However this is wrong:

Because LSAT performance has nothing to do with knowledge of "grammar" or any other generalized skills you think you might develop by studying a foreign language.

Lsat is all about generalized skills, like logic and verbal skills. Moreover, the diligent test taker will recognize the LSAT does test grammar skills.

[RobertGolddust]

I anticipate a 7 point jump

But seriously why would it matter

Curious to find anecdotal evidence.

[Straw_Mandible]

Lsat is all about generalized skills, like logic and verbal skills. Moreover, the diligent test taker will recognize the LSAT does test grammar skills.

Well sure. You need to understand how words come together to form meaningful sentences. But unless you lack the most rudimentary level of general language processing ability, working on your "grammar skills" will not help you improve your LSAT score.

[Pancakes12]

This I'll buy:

but it will be especially useless for improving at logic games.

However this is wrong:

Because LSAT performance has nothing to do with knowledge of "grammar" or any other generalized skills you think you might develop by studying a foreign language.

Lsat is all about generalized skills, like logic and verbal skills. Moreover, the diligent test taker will recognize the LSAT does test grammar skills.

Lololol did kaplan teach you this

[RobertGolddust]

But unless you lack the most rudimentary level of general language processing ability

Rudimentary level of general language processing is far from an accurate assessment of what one deals with on the LSAT. I would say a decent knowledge of grammar and strong verbal skills are a big advantage on the LSAT.

[RobertGolddust]

Lololol did kaplan teach you this

haha very funny, but seriously, I don't see how you can argue that grammar is not a component of the LSAT.

[Straw_Mandible]

But unless you lack the most rudimentary level of general language processing ability

Rudimentary level of general language processing is far from an accurate assessment of what one deals with on the LSAT. I would say a decent knowledge of grammar and strong verbal skills are a big advantage on the LSAT.

I wouldn't say these skills are a big advantage. I would say that lacking them would be a big disadvantage. But assuming that you have the language skills to pass the level of basic comprehension (which you do if you're scoring in the 160s), your reasoning ability is what will actually make the difference.

The more relevant point is that studying Spanish is likely not going to improve your general "verbal skills" on an English language test.

[Pancakes12]

Lololol did kaplan teach you this

haha very funny, but seriously, I don't see how you can argue that grammar is not a component of the LSAT.

I don't know how you can argue that turning pages isn't part of the lsat.
I don't know how you can argue that sitting in a chair isn't part of the lsat.

See a problem with those?

I didn't argue grammar doesn't matter. But there's no marginal benefit to studying it, unless you're esl

[Straw_Mandible]

^ solid post.

I'm going to head to the library for an intensive session of bubbling prep. Bubbling skills are essential on the LSAT.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Just because poor grammar skills might hurt you on the LSAT doesn't mean the LSAT tests for grammar.

[RobertGolddust]

I don't know how you can argue that turning pages isn't part of the lsat.
I don't know how you can argue that sitting in a chair isn't part of the lsat

This is a false analog.

Just because poor grammar skills might hurt you on the LSAT doesn't mean the LSAT tests for grammar.

This is sort of an absurd statement. Ecce signum, just because poor logic skills might hurt you on the LSAT doesn't mean the LSAT test for logic. See what I did there.


Anyways, I'm hoping to avoid a debate and instead hear some anecdotal evidence. But, I understand this is a site for potential law students, so it would foolish to hope I could evade a disputasio.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I mean that ability to understand grammar is a prerequisite but not what the test is designed to evaluate. It's incidental. The only thing that might be designed to test your grammar might be the writing sample, which doesn't matter.

In any case, improving your understanding of grammar by studying a foreign language to get better at the LSAT seems a really attenuated and tangential benefit. You're better off actually studying and drilling for the exam and directly addressing the skills it's trying to evaluate.

[politibro44]

I mean why make a post? You clearly believe that studying spanish will enhance your LSAT score, why do you need affirmation from us?

Knowledge of grammar may be necessary for taking the LSAT, but improving your grammar knowledge by learning spanish (which may or may not be the case) does not therefore improve your LSAT skillz.

I think the major takeaway here is bubbling is an overlooked skill and you should probably practice that as well.

[RobertGolddust]

I mean that ability to understand grammar is a prerequisite but not what the test is designed to evaluate. It's incidental. The only thing that might be designed to test your grammar might be the writing sample, which doesn't matter.

I see. This makes sense, although I disagree. Give me a day or two to find a few passages where grammar skills are a bonus.

[RobertGolddust]

The more relevant point is that studying Spanish is likely not going to improve your general "verbal skills" on an English language test.

Despite your derisive comments, I do think this is an interesting inquiry. This is totally anecdotal, but in my experience, studying other languages does spillover to the native tongue. I learned a bit of Latin in grade school and then took it up as a hobby in college. I can emphatically say, "yes, it helped me read and write better."

I'm just interested to see how that type of thinking will spill over to the LSAT, if it does at all. Of course, if it does, I'll report back.

[bound]

Why would this matter? I studied for the LSAT in Spain and it neither hurt nor helped. Thinking too hard about this, bro.

[Pancakes12]

I don't know how you can argue that turning pages isn't part of the lsat.
I don't know how you can argue that sitting in a chair isn't part of the lsat

This is a false analog.

Just because poor grammar skills might hurt you on the LSAT doesn't mean the LSAT tests for grammar.

This is sort of an absurd statement. Ecce signum, just because poor logic skills might hurt you on the LSAT doesn't mean the LSAT test for logic. See what I did there.


Anyways, I'm hoping to avoid a debate and instead hear some anecdotal evidence. But, I understand this is a site for potential law students, so it would foolish to hope I could evade a disputasio.

It is not a false analog, but maybe an exaggerated one. But I did that on purpose. Just because something is necessary to a task doesn't mean that one should focus their time on that thing.

If you want any sort of evidence, check out average lsat by major. Yes, I know self selection into major blah blah blah but still.

[krnpridejk]

OP: I guess it really depends on how hard you study for Spanish and how hard you study for LSAT...
I know because I've studied abroad in Japan for a semester, and from my experience, and based on relevant studies, it can be VERY exhausting for your brain, although u won't really notice it, and it might actually have some negative impact on your LSAT...

Also, it is quite possible, even for fluent or native English speakers to "forget" some of English language if ur living in a foreign country for long time and almost completely immersed in that foreign language during that entire stay... I wasn't born speaking English, FWIW, so i guess my exp. might be diff. from that of a native speaker born and raised speaking and reading in English...So take my words with a grain of salt, but I am quite fluent in English, as I have been studying in the US since elementary school, and am more comfortable in English than my "native" language...so I'm pretty confident I am fluent and at native level of English language, but living in Japan for just 4 months, (note I was nearly completely immersed in the culture, as I only had one English-speaking friend and i hung out only with native Japanese speakers), and I forgot quite a bit of English, and I had hard time writing a quality-level writing in English during my stay there in Japan, and for a little bit after I first came back to the US... It all came back, of course within couple months, but if ur taking ur LSAT while ur in Spain, OP, ur general English verbal skills might actually be suffer, and as a result ur performance in LR and RC might even drop a little bit..Probably won't be big enough of an impact to influence ur performance on LG in either direction.

If u are studying English really hard at the same time ur being immersed in Spanish culture and language, and studying Sp. at the same time, my 1st point would come into play here, and just because ur brain is so exhausted due to the constant immersion to foreign language, and given the extreme stress and nervousness that comes with LSAT and the tremendous amount of concentration you need on the Test day, you may under-perform come Test Day.

OP, to make the long story short, I would probably recommend u take it a bit later and come back to US first, rest up a bit, review ur English first for a while, and then take the LSAT. Of course, continue to study for LSAT during ur stay in Spain, but don't be a fool by taking the Exam in Spain!

PS: Sorry for the rant, but I was getting a bit exasperated with some of the senseless comments above by people who apparently had no experience of learning foreign language or having lived abroad... Ur general English grammar skills WILL most likely improve, as that is an association that comes with learning foreign languages, but that will probably come after a while, when u get to the level where u can actually UNDERSTAND the similarities and differences between English and Spanish languages and the logic behind each respective language... In my experience, it's not an immediate benefit that comes right as you start learning foreign langauge, but a very gradual one that comes a long time later, and hence most likely won't impact ur LSAT performance in any way whatsoever in this regard.

[alexrodriguez]

I'm learning to basket weave. Basket weavers score high on the LSAT.

Basket weavers can solve complex problems.

Basket weavers score -0 in LG