S_W the pract tests! Forum

[Neuron]

Let me give you a little background. I have worked over a decade as a neuroscience professor and spent my life studying memory and learning. I am quite puzzled by the how eager both the LSAT companies and students are about the pract exams. All of the companies recommend that you do your first one before you even begin your studies and then you keep on taking them till the day of the exam. Why? Isn't that like giving a person two eggs and asking them to bake a cake. I am sure that some people would be able to figure out how to do it without any instructions but most would fail miserably. The way I have been preparing for the LSAT is to learn all that I can about each section doing individual questions addressing each topic that I am studying but I have no intention to take the full exams till I am done studying. Even then, I am planning on taking the first few untimed concentrating on getting correct answers. After that my plan is to shorten the time I allow myself a bit on every exam. The time that I have given myself? Till the end of Sept even Dec. I don't really care how long it takes. All I care about is to really master this test. Comments??

[jk148706]

So, you plan on mastering question types (aka drilling) ---> mixed review ---> full untimed sections ---> timed sections ---> timed tests

Seems standard to me.

[lawschool2014hopeful]

Let me give you a little background. I have worked over a decade as a neuroscience professor and spent my life studying memory and learning. I am quite puzzled by the how eager both the LSAT companies and students are about the pract exams. All of the companies recommend that you do your first one before you even begin your studies and then you keep on taking them till the day of the exam. Why? Isn't that like giving a person two eggs and asking them to bake a cake. I am sure that some people would be able to figure out how to do it without any instructions but most would fail miserably. The way I have been preparing for the LSAT is to learn all that I can about each section doing individual questions addressing each topic that I am studying but I have no intention to take the full exams till I am done studying. Even then, I am planning on taking the first few untimed concentrating on getting correct answers. After that my plan is to shorten the time I allow myself a bit on every exam. The time that I have given myself? Till the end of Sept even Dec. I don't really care how long it takes. All I care about is to really master this test. Comments??

Your analogy is bit off. Is more like learning how to ride a bike, people always tell you to try the bike first, even though knowing most people will fail. You are never "done" studying the LSAT. By having the mentality you have you will just develop a fear of taking prep tests and end up flopping.

Take a diagnostic, see where you fare, then do whatever strategy/plan you have.

[Neuron]

I am so glad to hear that some of you are already studying the way I am. I would love to hear more from you. I have to admit that I started my studying with a pract exam and scored 172 so I am not intimidated by LSAT. I find it totally fascinating actually. I am by no means saying that I am not going to do the pract exam. On the contrary, I am hoping to get at least 50 done. But to me these exams are like treasures. Once I have completed them, they will never be new to me again. Thus, I rather learn the question types etc. before I start doing them. I am fully aware that I will never truly master this exam but I can learn the basic rules pretty quickly. (I expect it to take me another 2 months before I start taking the exams) I am currently doing the Manhattan interactive class, reading the Bibles, the trainer and a few others.

[lawschool2014hopeful]

I am so glad to hear that some of you are already studying the way I am. I would love to hear more from you. I have to admit that I started my studying with a pract exam and scored 172 so I am not intimidated by LSAT. I find it totally fascinating actually. I am by no means saying that I am not going to do the pract exam. On the contrary, I am hoping to get at least 50 done. But to me these exams are like treasures. Once I have completed them, they will never be new to me again. Thus, I rather learn the question types etc. before I start doing them. I am fully aware that I will never truly master this exam but I can learn the basic rules pretty quickly. (I expect it to take me another 2 months before I start taking the exams) I am currently doing the Manhattan interactive class, reading the Bibles, the trainer and a few others.

If you scored 172 on a timed diagnostic I wouldn't bother with any books, I would just do practice tests and review why you got certain questions wrong. Use online resources such as Manhattan explanation/7-sage only when necessary.

[Jeffort]

Let me give you a little background. I have worked over a decade as a neuroscience professor and spent my life studying memory and learning. I am quite puzzled by the how eager both the LSAT companies and students are about the pract exams. All of the companies recommend that you do your first one before you even begin your studies and then you keep on taking them till the day of the exam. Why? Isn't that like giving a person two eggs and asking them to bake a cake. I am sure that some people would be able to figure out how to do it without any instructions but most would fail miserably. The way I have been preparing for the LSAT is to learn all that I can about each section doing individual questions addressing each topic that I am studying but I have no intention to take the full exams till I am done studying. Even then, I am planning on taking the first few untimed concentrating on getting correct answers. After that my plan is to shorten the time I allow myself a bit on every exam. The time that I have given myself? Till the end of Sept even Dec. I don't really care how long it takes. All I care about is to really master this test. Comments??

Good prep companies and tutors do not recommend frequently taking timed practice tests while learning the fundamentals/concept/techniques/approaches/etc. In fact, good teachers/tutors strongly admonish students NOT to jump into doing timed practice tests until after they've learned all the important foundations and done a large amount of slow motion drilling and review of each question/game type to get good at approaching/analyzing/thinking everything through properly with a focus on building good logical analysis skills and habits.

The 'take lots of practice tests starting right away and keep doing a bunch all the way through' mentality is misguided thinking from inexperienced students that don't yet understand/know the difference between quality prep methods that actually improve critical skills vs. the time and materials wasting 'churn and burn' routine of mainly focusing on speed/timing instead of spending time learning how to analyze questions better/properly/more thoroughly before jumping into the answers to play 'pin the tail on the donkey' and try to pick the correct one with half hazard methods that frequently involves some degree of guessing about certain things due to inadequate upfront analysis. The just take lots of timed practice tests is a student generated idea, not something good teachers and tutors advocate.

Your approach is solid. Learning and understanding the deeper underlying logic involved in the various question types, focusing on learning proper ways to approach/analyze questions and practicing that stuff in slow motion with careful review to learn everything you can from each question as you progress and sticking with that for a long time before jumping into full test/sections timed practice IS the best and most efficient way to prep. People that rush into timed practice early in prep end up developing a lot of bad habits/approaches that become very hard to undo down the road and become score range limiting because instead of focusing on learning how to approach/analyze things better/deeper, they instead focus on learning not very logic based 'hack' methods to brute force their way through questions with a lot of POE based superficial characteristics of answer choices (LR and RC) instead of learning how to actually recognize correct answers when you see them based on actually seeing and understanding the underlying logic of the question at the time that makes the CR logically correct.

Keep going with the way you are doing it. It sounds similar to the way I approached it a long time ago when I prepped and took the test to get my 177. Get good at really understanding and being able to break down and completely understand hard arguments/games so that when you go to the answer choices there is zero guesswork involved and instead you clearly recognize which one is correct and know/understand at that moment the exact logical reasons it is correct. Once you can do that with high level difficulty questions consistently so that checking the answer key DOES NOT at all feel like you're checking lotto numbers to see if you won but instead is just mere confirmation that your analysis and decision making was spot on, then just a small amount of timed practice over the last few weeks is enough to refine things and get your timing down in full test conditions.

In short, proper prep priorities should be learning how to and getting good at doing the deep analysis with all the proper steps/techniques for each question/game type so that you are operating at a level where you ALWAYS KNOW the answer choice you are about to select is logically correct, are certain with your analysis, it is thorough, spot on accurate and you are logically certain what you are about to select is for sure correct. Once you have developed the skills to be able to do that with a high level of accuracy and confidence with the highest difficulty level versions of every question/game type, then your ready to focus mainly on timing and full test endurance. People that prioritize timing/speed more than building skills for better quality analysis/deeper understanding of each question mainly end up focusing on getting better at using 'educated guessing' strategies to try to get the harder questions right that they don't have the skills/ability to really analyze/understand properly to get correct for valid logical reasons/actually understanding why the CR is correct as the reason for selecting it under timed conditions.

If you want a 170+ score, focus on getting really good at fully/thoroughly breaking down, analyzing and understanding the complete logic involved in the highest difficulty level LR questions and advanced logic games in slow motion for a while so that your answer choice selections are never based on any leaps of faith/guesswork/gut instincts but instead are all purely logic based decisions because you actually 'see' the logic behind the answer clearly while evaluating the answer choices. Once you fully understand the deeper types of analysis required to clearly see and understand the logic underlying high difficulty level questions, practice doing that a bunch with many more high difficulty questions in slow motion for practice, making sure to go through all the proper steps/thought processes/methods carefully with a focus on perfect form and accuracy for a while without heavy time pressure so that you really build the deep thought processes/methods into being your natural LSAT habits of analysis. After getting a good comfort level with that, then head into timed practice.

Prep classes/tutors/most people recommend taking a diagnostic timed test at the beginning mainly to get a general baseline idea of what score range (140s vs 150s vs 160s, etc.) your unprepped/intuitive analysis skills put you in so you have an idea about how much work you have ahead to revamp how you go about trying to solve questions. Beyond that, other than an occasional one after significant amounts of prep just to spot check general improvement, timed practice tests aren't really useful for improving anything until after you've learned and built the foundations and are ready to focus on just putting it together in full test form under timed conditions to get endurance and to fine tune things, figure out things that need more drilling to strengthen, etc. in the final 6-8 weeks at most leading up to test day.

In short, focusing on learning how to approach and analyze questions properly/better for accuracy is the most important part of prep for improving your score. Doing lots of timed practice doesn't improve the quality of peoples methods/skills.

[MidwestLifer]

I only studied via practice tests and got a 17X. I think the LSAT has a strong 'YMMV' quality to it. Learn it how you best studied for something in undergrad, only at a greater level of care/intensity.

[manillabay]

Let me give you a little background. I have worked over a decade as a neuroscience professor and spent my life studying memory and learning. I am quite puzzled by the how eager both the LSAT companies and students are about the pract exams. All of the companies recommend that you do your first one before you even begin your studies and then you keep on taking them till the day of the exam. Why? Isn't that like giving a person two eggs and asking them to bake a cake. I am sure that some people would be able to figure out how to do it without any instructions but most would fail miserably. The way I have been preparing for the LSAT is to learn all that I can about each section doing individual questions addressing each topic that I am studying but I have no intention to take the full exams till I am done studying. Even then, I am planning on taking the first few untimed concentrating on getting correct answers. After that my plan is to shorten the time I allow myself a bit on every exam. The time that I have given myself? Till the end of Sept even Dec. I don't really care how long it takes. All I care about is to really master this test. Comments??

Good prep companies and tutors do not recommend frequently taking timed practice tests while learning the fundamentals/concept/techniques/approaches/etc. In fact, good teachers/tutors strongly admonish students NOT to jump into doing timed practice tests until after they've learned all the important foundations and done a large amount of slow motion drilling and review of each question/game type to get good at approaching/analyzing/thinking everything through properly with a focus on building good logical analysis skills and habits.

The 'take lots of practice tests starting right away and keep doing a bunch all the way through' mentality is misguided thinking from inexperienced students that don't yet understand/know the difference between quality prep methods that actually improve critical skills vs. the time and materials wasting 'churn and burn' routine of mainly focusing on speed/timing instead of spending time learning how to analyze questions better/properly/more thoroughly before jumping into the answers to play 'pin the tail on the donkey' and try to pick the correct one with half hazard methods that frequently involves some degree of guessing about certain things due to inadequate upfront analysis. The just take lots of timed practice tests is a student generated idea, not something good teachers and tutors advocate.

Your approach is solid. Learning and understanding the deeper underlying logic involved in the various question types, focusing on learning proper ways to approach/analyze questions and practicing that stuff in slow motion with careful review to learn everything you can from each question as you progress and sticking with that for a long time before jumping into full test/sections timed practice IS the best and most efficient way to prep. People that rush into timed practice early in prep end up developing a lot of bad habits/approaches that become very hard to undo down the road and become score range limiting because instead of focusing on learning how to approach/analyze things better/deeper, they instead focus on learning not very logic based 'hack' methods to brute force their way through questions with a lot of POE based superficial characteristics of answer choices (LR and RC) instead of learning how to actually recognize correct answers when you see them based on actually seeing and understanding the underlying logic of the question at the time that makes the CR logically correct.

Keep going with the way you are doing it. It sounds similar to the way I approached it a long time ago when I prepped and took the test to get my 177. Get good at really understanding and being able to break down and completely understand hard arguments/games so that when you go to the answer choices there is zero guesswork involved and instead you clearly recognize which one is correct and know/understand at that moment the exact logical reasons it is correct. Once you can do that with high level difficulty questions consistently so that checking the answer key DOES NOT at all feel like you're checking lotto numbers to see if you won but instead is just mere confirmation that your analysis and decision making was spot on, then just a small amount of timed practice over the last few weeks is enough to refine things and get your timing down in full test conditions.

In short, proper prep priorities should be learning how to and getting good at doing the deep analysis with all the proper steps/techniques for each question/game type so that you are operating at a level where you ALWAYS KNOW the answer choice you are about to select is logically correct, are certain with your analysis, it is thorough, spot on accurate and you are logically certain what you are about to select is for sure correct. Once you have developed the skills to be able to do that with a high level of accuracy and confidence with the highest difficulty level versions of every question/game type, then your ready to focus mainly on timing and full test endurance. People that prioritize timing/speed more than building skills for better quality analysis/deeper understanding of each question mainly end up focusing on getting better at using 'educated guessing' strategies to try to get the harder questions right that they don't have the skills/ability to really analyze/understand properly to get correct for valid logical reasons/actually understanding why the CR is correct as the reason for selecting it under timed conditions.

If you want a 170+ score, focus on getting really good at fully/thoroughly breaking down, analyzing and understanding the complete logic involved in the highest difficulty level LR questions and advanced logic games in slow motion for a while so that your answer choice selections are never based on any leaps of faith/guesswork/gut instincts but instead are all purely logic based decisions because you actually 'see' the logic behind the answer clearly while evaluating the answer choices. Once you fully understand the deeper types of analysis required to clearly see and understand the logic underlying high difficulty level questions, practice doing that a bunch with many more high difficulty questions in slow motion for practice, making sure to go through all the proper steps/thought processes/methods carefully with a focus on perfect form and accuracy for a while without heavy time pressure so that you really build the deep thought processes/methods into being your natural LSAT habits of analysis. After getting a good comfort level with that, then head into timed practice.

Prep classes/tutors/most people recommend taking a diagnostic timed test at the beginning mainly to get a general baseline idea of what score range (140s vs 150s vs 160s, etc.) your unprepped/intuitive analysis skills put you in so you have an idea about how much work you have ahead to revamp how you go about trying to solve questions. Beyond that, other than an occasional one after significant amounts of prep just to spot check general improvement, timed practice tests aren't really useful for improving anything until after you've learned and built the foundations and are ready to focus on just putting it together in full test form under timed conditions to get endurance and to fine tune things, figure out things that need more drilling to strengthen, etc. in the final 6-8 weeks at most leading up to test day.

In short, focusing on learning how to approach and analyze questions properly/better for accuracy is the most important part of prep for improving your score. Doing lots of timed practice doesn't improve the quality of peoples methods/skills.

wow, who is this guy? lol

[LauraS]

Neuron --

As Jeffort so wisely tells you, your approach is great.

Taking an initial diagnostic, as you have, can be helpful for several reasons, one of which is that it may help you plan your studies.

Since you're a natural at the LSAT, I suggest you use an aggressive approach from the start with a log that keeps track of every single answer you get wrong. I'd write down things like why your answer is wrong, why the right answer is right, what happened in your process that lead to the mistake, and what you can do in the future so it won't happen again.

I suggest writing this down because it forces you to slow down and think carefully. You'll also have a record of insights you can review periodically. The few moments of reflection for each missed question can pay big dividends.

For even more insights, you can do this for questions you get right but aren't sure about.

My impression is that the test prep companies have their students take only a handful of tests, 4 - 6 or so. One up front, then the next after several weeks of intense study. They're giving their students a valuable experience -- taking a full test under real test conditions -- and not burning up many tests in the process (4 - 6 out of 71+).

I think it's highly likely you will master the LSAT. I'd be very surprised if your actual score isn't 180 or very close to it.

Best of luck,

Laura