Diff between PTs and test day Forum

[stef1330]

I've heard that on average most people score 4 points or so lower on the actual LSAT than they do their practice tests average. Is this true? Do people often score better or the same?

[Mauve.Dino]

Let me put it this way: I was PTing between 168 - 172 consistently before I took the February test.

I ended up with a 159 because my brain shut down as soon as I read the first question. In fact, I don't even remember taking the test or what was on it besides a circular logic game. No joke--I don't remember any other questions.

Hope that helps--ha, ha....

[WaltGrace83]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I have heard that people can become a little tense during their first take but it is quite often that when people retake they feel MUCH better and end up performing around their average (sometimes even higher).

However, it all depends on your personality when it comes to testing. I personally always feel like I got owned by tests and then I outperform myself. My test anxiety is often unfounded but I would presume this is the case for many people.

[stef1330]

Let me put it this way: I was PTing between 168 - 172 consistently before I took the February test.

I ended up with a 159 because my brain shut down as soon as I read the first question. In fact, I don't even remember taking the test or what was on it besides a circular logic game. No joke--I don't remember any other questions.

Hope that helps--ha, ha....

Holy crap bro that is horrifying...

Does anyone have any stories of PT-ing at 160s and magically getting a 170?


And what WOULD you have to PT at to guarantee (at least in part) a 170+?

[rebexness]

Holy crap bro that is horrifying...

Does anyone have any stories of PT-ing at 160s and magically getting a 170?


And what WOULD you have to PT at to guarantee (at least in part) a 170+?

1) That won't happen. a 2-3 point game day boost, maybe, but unlikely.
2) No such thing as a guarantee. Are you PTing under test conditions? How many PTs have you taken?

I know plenty of people who PTd in the high 70s regularly/180 on occasion and still didn't break 170 on test day.

[stef1330]

I just took my diagnostic, I'm going trough the bibles now. I got a 158 on the diagnostic but it was untimed. I'm taking a testmasters course also starting the 31st of this month. Plan to put 3-6 hours of study daily for the next 80 something days

[Nova]

Some people tend to fold under pressure.
Some people tend to excel under pressure.
Most people seem score right around where they should

My last 5 PTs were all upper 160s. On test day I scored in the upper 160s.

I got a 158 on the diagnostic but it was untimed.

untimed diagnostics are essentially meaningless

but its not like timed diagnostics are useful for much beyond scaring the shit out of you.

[stef1330]

Amen to the that ^

[BPlaura]

To add a more positive story to this thread, I scored my exact PT average on my first (and only) take. It can be done!

In order to avoid or mitigate test-day jitters, take your PTs in as close to real testing conditions as possible (with a #2 pencil, strict timing, short breaks between sections, ambient noise, the whole nine yards); also, it's a good idea to scope out your testing center beforehand so that you know how long it will take you to get there. Basically, eliminate as many variables as possible so that you can focus on crushing the test.

[aboutmydaylight]

I scored worse than PT averages first test, and better than PT averages second test. I don't have test day anxiety, especially once it gets started. I felt pretty similar during both tests (actually felt worse during my higher score) and the feeling to me was comparable to taking PTs. No noticeable speed/comprehension issues. Yet I still scored differently. Sometimes that's just how it goes.

[Mack.Hambleton]

1. yes many people do

2. retaking gets rid of this (generally)

[stef1330]

is there any amount of PTs you can take that will get rid of this?
I'm not trying to bring about a self fulfilling prophecy or anything but I'm trying to resist this from happening.

[Christine (MLSAT)]

is there any amount of PTs you can take that will get rid of this?
I'm not trying to bring about a self fulfilling prophecy or anything but I'm trying to resist this from happening.

There's no guaranteed number, certainly. More tends to be better, but this is a very serious case of "know thyself". I have known people that were extraordinarily zen people, and even without a lot of PTing were able to be calm and score at average on test day. I have also known some people that took - literally - every PT in existence in real, timed, test-like conditions and still completely freaked out on test day.

There's no simulated experience that will perfectly replicate the adrenaline rush of test day, but as BPLaura suggests, the closer you can get, the better. But anything that can help you retain your focus even in the face of fear, uncertainty, adrenaline, acute stress, etc, will be helpful - yoga and meditation can absolutely help some people if they're open to that kind of thing.

Some stress will come on test day from specific issues - having a plan for dealing with those is critical. This is hokey as all get out, but I literally imagine the fear/panic thing that I'm feeling as an object, I imagine a box, then I imagine putting the panic inside that box and sticking it on a shelf - then I tell myself "you're allowed to freak the heck out about that in 4 hours, but for now, it does not exist". That sounds....ridiculous, I know. But it works for me. And I actually had to use this on test day. My LSAT was PT40 - Zephyr airlines. I turned the page and saw the game, and had complete, indescribable panic - for 3 seconds. Then I put that panic in a box, and I got down to the business of getting on with it. (And I lost my mind as soon as the exam was over.)

Other stress comes just from the general atmosphere of the exam, the nature of doing the real LSAT omg omg omg. That's actually harder to prepare for, in a way, as it's harder to explicitly address.

All that being said, I know an awful lot of people that have taken the LSAT - and I know exactly one person who scored *significantly* higher on her real LSAT than her PT average. But the remainder of people are probably well split between doing worse and doing essentially the same as their average. So, a lot of people don't drop, but veeeeeery few people actually increase their score by a lot on test day.

Don't let it freak you out too bad - just don't get lulled into complacency based on your PT average at any point.

[hdunlop]

I gained four points from my best PT. Work on an average you're comfortable with and hope for the best.

e: the key is to not sweat it. I'm a shitheap with most things -- I overthink most things and catch baseballs on my head -- but I for whatever reason I can be calm and act the gameday player with standardized tests. Ultimately, if it's not your thing, practice until it is.

[bmr456]

A decent number of people seem to experience significant anxiety on their first take, with it disappearing on retake. I opened the test booklet and immediately had a surge of nervousness that made everything very hard. Got a lot better after 5-7 minutes but seemed to stick with me to some degree throughout the test. Second time didn't experience anything at all like that, just normal test-day nerves which are quite manageable for anyone. Best thing to do is try to simulate test-day conditions as best you can in PT's, and mentally prepare for the first-LSAT anxiety a decent number of people seem to experience.

[stef1330]

word. thanks guys.

[hdunlop]

Honestly this is something I would add, especially for those of you young enough to remember. Were you nervous for your ACT or SAT or did you just roll in and take the thing? Have you taken the GRE? I would even suggest that LSAT takers go after the GRE -- it's a much more relaxed test environment, and frankly an easier test (except the math is a bitch, but many of you are math nerds so it's probably easier all around). Get used to real, competitive testing. And then take the LSAT. The people around me seemed terrified. If you are terrified taking any test, you will be terrified taking the LSAT. If you are comfortable, you will be comfortable. Trust your own history more than what people say.

[Nova]

OTOH, you could have a really fun weekend at the bars with that 160 dollars.

[Theopliske8711]

I would suggest that nobody takes a real test before they have taken all the Preptests and retaken them at least once. How you fare on test day involves a lot of different factors, but I think the added adrenaline and pressure was good for me.

[Winston1984]

I would suggest that nobody takes a real test before they have taken all the Preptests and retaken them at least once. How you fare on test day involves a lot of different factors, but I think the added adrenaline and pressure was good for me.

That's absolutely ridiculous. No one needs to take 130+ PTs before the real thing. Probably 20+ is sufficient.

[hopeful 0L]

Time yourself religiously. This is purely anecdotal, but some people I've come across were a bit lax timing themselves in practice and then (perhaps unsurprisingly) felt rushed/overwhelmed on test day. No idea if this is a credited strategy for others, but I did a substantial amount of practice at 34 mins/section or even 33.5 and got acclimated to having a bit less time. I felt like it helped on test day. Again, just a little something I did, no idea if it has worked for anyone else.

[Lightworks]

I scored 176-180 for at least 10 PTs straight before I took the real thing and got a 170.

I think most of that was test day nerves + getting lost for 20 minutes at the test center and barely making it to the room on time. I hadn't missed more than 3 LR questions on a test in at least a month, and wound up going -7 on the real thing.

Another thing that made a real difference was the 20 minute break. If I took breaks at all during PTs, they were ~5 minutes. Eight of my twelve misses came after the break; it definitely threw me off.

Don't get cocky if you're above your goal score long before test day; you can always get better. And, as others have said, keep your test environment as close to the real thing as possible.

[AdInfinitum]

I was PTing around 170-175 throughout studying. First take a performed under the range, second take I performed above it and even higher than my best PT.

Biggest advice I can give (or even feel qualified to give) is don't burn yourself out the week or so before the exam. At that point you either know it or you don't. Helped me a ton the second time around, in addition to less anxiety. Also, switched from a granola bar to Triscuits for my snack so maybe they're the secret

[flippacious]

I scored my exact PT average for all timed tests I took. This was about three points below the average of my last 5-10 PTs.

In my opinion, I wouldn't take the test until you're PTing slightly over the score you want. I postponed from June to October when I took it because I wanted 175+, but was only PTing around a 172 around that point. Four extra months of prep was definitely overkill, but I'm glad I waited.

[Theopliske8711]

I would suggest that nobody takes a real test before they have taken all the Preptests and retaken them at least once. How you fare on test day involves a lot of different factors, but I think the added adrenaline and pressure was good for me.

That's absolutely ridiculous. No one needs to take 130+ PTs before the real thing. Probably 20+ is sufficient.

I should specify: all the relevant preptests (50-70).