Should I retake?? Need help urgent Forum

[cokilx]

So I took LSAT back in 2010 December and studied with Kaplan advantage online course. I scored 161 but did not feel I was well prepared. I retake the test in 2011 October and studied with them again, that time I felt that I was better prepared but ended up with the exact score. I was very upset and gave up. Both tests scores very much below my average PT scores (around 168). My undergrad LSAC GPA is 3.7.
I worked two and half years after that, currently I have a stable job which pays around $70,000 a year.
There is not much career advancement in my current job and I still had the dream of going to law school so I applied this cycle.
I got in University of Washington, I have educational benefit from my husband so don't have to pay anything for tuition. Also applied couple better ranking schools but didn't get in. Now I am thinking about putting my seat deposit down for UW and retake LSAT in June this year. If the score goes up more than 168 then apply for next cycle. I really want to go the a T14 school and plan to transfer after IL if I go to UW.
I am worried that even if my score goes up a lot since I had two scores already schools may not like it.
From what I have read it seems except HYS other schools only look at the highest score now.
By reading other posts I realized Kaplan LSAT prep material may not be the best either.

What do you guys suggest?

[Nova]

I scored 161

my average PT scores (around 168).

Definitely retake.

Now I am thinking about putting my seat deposit down for UW and retake LSAT in June this year.

what is the Cost of attendance for UW? Im guessing you would be way over paying.

If the score goes up more than 168 then apply for next cycle.

Even if you dont manage 168+, a modest increase might be a good enough reason to sit out for scholarship purposes.

I really want to go the a T14 school and plan to transfer after IL if I go to UW.

Theres like a 85-90% chance that wont happen.

I am worried that even if my score goes up a lot since I had two scores already schools may not like it.

Highest score is all that matters

By reading other posts I realized Kaplan LSAT prep material may not be the best either.

its not. its generally considered awful.

[cokilx]

Thanks for the input

Now I am thinking about putting my seat deposit down for UW and retake LSAT in June this year.

what is the Cost of attendance for UW? Im guessing you would be way over paying.

My tuition will be all covered by my G.I. bill benefit. I will have to pay living cots thou.

I really want to go the a T14 school and plan to transfer after IL if I go to UW.

Theres like a 85-90% chance that wont happen.

I understand that, since only top 10% can transfer to T14.

[Nova]

Where are you from? Washington? Do you want to live there long term? If not, where would you like to live long term?

[Jeffort]

Which T14 schools are your targets over UofW?

Depending on your long term employment goals and geographically where you want to start your career after LS, make sure you consider how much you are weighing ranking prestige of a better school vs. cost since free tuition is hard to beat along with the employment stats UofW has if you plan on staying in that area to work after you graduate.

https://www.law.washington.edu/Career/e ... Stats.aspx

If you plan to live and practice in that area no matter where you go to LS, in the long term having zero tuition debt vs. a degree with much higher/nationwide prestige but similar ultimate job outcome plus well over $100k in debt would be an obvious financial choice but we don't know what your situation and priorities are. There is a lot more that is important to seriously consider when choosing schools beyond just ranking prestige.

No matter what your long term goals from LS are, you should re-take. With good prep methods unlike how you prepped before there is no reason you shouldn't be able to significantly improve your 161 and open up more LS possibilities from your GPA so you at least have more life path choices to consider before deciding what you really want and locking yourself in for the long term.

[cokilx]

Which T14 schools are your targets over UofW?

Depending on your long term employment goals and geographically where you want to start your career after LS, make sure you consider how much you are weighing ranking prestige of a better school vs. cost since free tuition is hard to beat along with the employment stats UofW has if you plan on staying in that area to work after you graduate.

https://www.law.washington.edu/Career/e ... Stats.aspx

If you plan to live and practice in that area no matter where you go to LS, in the long term having zero tuition debt vs. a degree with much high prestige, similar ultimate job outcome plus well over $100k in debt would be an obvious choice but we don't know what your situation and priorities are. There is a lot more that is important to seriously consider when choosing schools beyond just ranking prestige.


No matter what your long term goals from LS are, you should re-take. With good prep methods unlike how you prepped before there is no reason you shouldn't be able to significantly improve your 161 and open up a lot more LS possibilities with your GPA so you have more choices to consider.

I went to UW for undergrad. Currently living in Cali with my husband. Would prefer to start my career in Ca after LS. Wouldn't mind staying in WA either.
Tuition-wise, most schools would be free to me so that's not a big consideration. Scholarship money will help with living costs.

I want to go to UC berkely, UCLA. or even USC. I just got dinged by USC this cycle.
My husband would not be able to move with me to WA. He works in San Diego. Going to school in CA or LA would be easier for us.

[cokilx]

Where are you from? Washington? Do you want to live there long term? If not, where would you like to live long term?

I came to the U.S. as international student so all my families are not here.
I went to WA for undergrad. Now I live and work in San Diego. I would like to live in CA long term.

[Nova]

Where are you from? Washington? Do you want to live there long term? If not, where would you like to live long term?

I came to the U.S. as international student so all my families are not here.
I went to WA for undergrad. Now I live and work in San Diego. I would like to live in CA long term.

Based on the most recent 2 years of data available, 5% and 8% respectively of UWs class secured employment in CA 9 months after graduation.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... b=location

extrapolate from that what you will.

The idea of starting your career in one market and then moving to another market, essentially starting over armed with experience, seems daunting to me, considering how important your reputation and client base are.

Since CA is probably the toughest legal market crack, esp somewhere like san diego, I don't think attending a state school like Washington is your best move.

Hopefully your retake will get you off the UCLA WLs. If you hit UCLA/USC's medians (167/166) you would be a pretty safe bet to get in to at least one next cycle.

[Jeffort]

With those circumstances re-taking after good serious prep with better methods is a no brainer given that a high 160s score with your GPA would get you USC and probably UCLA too. Only problem with your situation is that seriously improving your score requires learning the LSAT on an entirely new level you were never shown by Kaplan so you have to get started like last month to have a good chance at improving to high 160s possibly 170+ by June test unless you're willing to commit now to waiting a cycle and being comfortable with the idea that you may need until September even December test to hit target LSAT range after learning and practicing new methods, meaning that you might not have secured your needed higher LSAT score before you have to let your UofW acceptance go and fully commit to waiting until next cycle to apply to better schools.

[cokilx]

With those circumstances re-taking after good serious prep with better methods is a no brainer given that a high 160s score with your GPA would get you USC and probably UCLA too. Only problem with your situation is that seriously improving your score requires learning the LSAT on an entirely new level you were never shown by Kaplan so you have to get started like last month to have a good chance at improving to high 160s possibly 170+ by June test unless you're willing to push back a cycle and be comfortable with the idea that you may need until September test to hit target LSAT range after learning and practicing new methods, meaning that you might not have secured your needed LSAT score before you have to let your UofW acceptance go and commit to waiting until next cycle to apply to better schools.

With the re-take I am planing to apply for 2015 cycle. Letting my UW acceptance go is exactly my concern. What if I end up with the same score again and have to wait another year. I didn't realize the possibility of re-take then applying next cycle till now.
I am very familiar with the test and have done almost all PT before 2011 December. With a very committed study schedule I am hoping I get my target score by June. If the score is not ideal I just go UW then.

I read Noodley's post about re-take. Ordered Logic Game Bible and Manhattan LR & RC today.

[Nova]

Only problem with your situation is that seriously improving your score requires learning the LSAT on an entirely new level you were never shown by Kaplan so you have to get started like last month to have a good chance at improving to high 160s possibly 170+ by June test

disagree

OP was PTing above USC/UCLAs medians already. I think OP has a really good chance to get back to that point over the next 10 weeks if she goes HAAM

I read Noodley's post about re-take. Ordered Logic Game Bible and Manhattan LR & RC today.

good plan

[cokilx]

Only problem with your situation is that seriously improving your score requires learning the LSAT on an entirely new level you were never shown by Kaplan so you have to get started like last month to have a good chance at improving to high 160s possibly 170+ by June test

disagree

OP was PTing above USC/UCLAs medians already. I think OP has a really good chance to get back to that point over the next 10 weeks if she goes HAAM

I read Noodley's post about re-take. Ordered Logic Game Bible and Manhattan LR & RC today.

good plan

Would schools like USC/UCLA really only look at highest LSAT?? wouldn't they think that since it took me so many retakes to get a certain score I am not good enough?

[Nova]

Would schools like USC/UCLA really only look at highest LSAT??

yes

wouldn't they think that since it took me so many retakes to get a certain score I am not good enough?

no.

your problem right now is that admitting you would be liability to their median. If you score at/above their median, you become a potential asset. That's all they really care about.

[cokilx]

Would schools like USC/UCLA really only look at highest LSAT??

yes

wouldn't they think that since it took me so many retakes to get a certain score I am not good enough?

no.

your problem right now is that admitting you would be liability to their median. If you score at/above their median, you become a potential asset. That's all they really care about.

That's kind of what I thought.
Btw a note for my GPA. I graduated from UW with a 3.81 GPA. But LSAC calculated my GPA with my 2 year community college 3.7 GPA and a bunch of ESL language and pre-college English classes (could barely speak English back then so didn't have good grades).
Do law schools care to know that or just look at my LSAC GPA 3.7?

[Jeffort]

Only problem with your situation is that seriously improving your score requires learning the LSAT on an entirely new level you were never shown by Kaplan so you have to get started like last month to have a good chance at improving to high 160s possibly 170+ by June test

disagree

OP was PTing above USC/UCLAs medians already. I think OP has a really good chance to get back to that point over the next 10 weeks if she goes HAAM

ehh, I can't be that enthusiastic about the chances of 168+ happening by June being really good since it's a rough road undoing two years of burnt in LSAT habits/thinking patterns that twice lead to test day 161s and involved using almost all available PTs already prepping for those takes. It takes a long time to unwind bad habits, especially with very few fresh materials. 168+ is near perfection range and a huge skill level difference from 161. It requires cutting down incorrect answers by almost 40%, by around 50% for 170, all points that must be gained from top end difficulty level questions so they are much harder to consistently earn. In essence, to go from ~160 to ~170 one has to get twice as good at not missing questions to cut number of misses by half and do it from level 3 and mostly level 4 difficulty questions! There are no more easy points to gain from fixing minor weaknesses from 161 on up. I don't want to give advice that might cause OP to get unrealistic expectations before making a crucial life changing decision. The time between now and June may not be enough for OP to get up to 168+ to create better options but that doesn't mean those options are off the table if willing to give up the UofW acceptance and really fight for a hopefully 170+ score with a do or die fully committed mindset and the comfort of a few administrations buffer zone to insure adequate prep and PT range before test day.

Not trying to rain on OPs parade or anything since I think the re-take plan is a winner, but for it to have the best chances of working out so she doesn't have to relocate to Seattle, she should be flexible for a longer prep plan since getting in shape to hit 168+ on test day is really frigging hard no matter what range anyone has PTd in before and is far from a sure thing by June given two years of prep history. Going from that to solid high 160s/170+ range with consistency typically requires a complete mindset overhaul that takes time to learn and adopt to replace all the old habits. It's certainly doable, just have to be realistic with the timeline given the realities of the situation and obstacles that must be overcome given prep track record.