Friend Scored a 140 Twice; What Should I Tell Her? Forum

[vtoodler]

My friend first took the LSAT two years ago and received a 140.

Since then, she has completed a master's degree and claims to have worked through several LSAT preparation books/practice tests.

She recently got her December 2012 score. Guess what--she got a 140 again.

Earlier this month, she cried to me over the phone about this. What should I tell her? I care very much for her and want to be as gentle (though also helpful) as possible. What would you say?

She has around a 3.5--3.6 GPA from a state university.

[dresden doll]

I'd say not to go to law school unless she can dramatically raise that score.

[Tom Joad]

I would tell her she is consistent.

[dr123]

Tell her to put that Master's degree to work and get a job.

[uvabro]

are you your friend?

[20130312]

RETAKE.

[Micdiddy]

A true friend at this point will sit her down and have a lengthy discussion about her future, gradually leading her to the conclusion that law school is just not in it. The last this girl needs is to be suckered in by a ttt promising riches when she already has a m.d. To work with and start a career. Need be, tell her to try the LSAT one more time so she can fully give up. But honestly the score she needs for a bright future in law is about a 25 point increase at least. Extremely difficult.

[MDB408]

are you your friend?

lol

Maybe her heart isn't really in it.

[mindarmed]

I would tell her she is consistent.

I agree, consistency is an asset for law school. She should do well OP.

The LSAT is not even a good indicator of how well one will do in law school. If this is her dream, you should push her to go and determine if she will be a good lawyer.

[cinephile]

Maybe self-study isn't doing it for her and she can try once more with an LSAT course.

[smaug_]

Don't go to law school. There are no jobs. You will die alone.

[BaiAilian2013]

Tell her everyone is good at some stuff and bad at some stuff, and she might just be really bad at the LSAT. Cuz let's be honest, a 140, TWICE? She's bad at that shit. We all suck at some things. The trick is to identify those things and not pursue them as a career.

[dr123]

What'd she get a Master's degree in?

[Steve2207]

I am going to tell you what no one else here will, and I know it will probably gain me some criticism, but here it goes.

If your “friend” wants to go to law school, she is going to need to retake. Her chances of admission into any accredited school with that score is slim to none. However, I disagree with the earlier poster that she will need a 25 point increase to be successful. To get into an approved law school, she is going to need a 6 to 8 point increase. I WOULD recommend she shoot higher than that, because while a score of 146-148 would get her into a third or fourth tier school, she wouldn’t likely receive any scholarship money and lower ranked schools have notoriously high tuition rates.

However, with her GPA, and given that she has a masters, if she can bring it up to a 150 or higher, I think she has a decent chance at some good schools, and maybe even a couple in the top 100. Everyone here will tell you third tier schools are not worth the money, and for the most part this is true. However, some aren’t really that bad, and can even offer a reasonable tuition rate. If she can hit in the 150 to 153 range, she can land a decent scholarship with her GPA.
Bottom line, your friend doesn’t have much of a chance without a retake, even in the most generous of circumstances. As for your advice, it depends on how bad she wants it.

If she works hard and can hit a 146 or 147, I would tell her to go IF that is what she REALLY wants, but she needs to realize that she will most likely be taking on a mountain of debt, and go through a very long period of unemployment afterward.

If she can break at least a 150, I would remain very encouraging, because she will have some decent options, and maybe even at a couple top 100 schools (she will never be a “Harvey”, but she can definitely get into a decent law school, and maybe even be offered some scholarship money.

If she can get a 155+, her options are even better…. In case you don’t see the trend in this, the higher the score, the better her future obviously.
Now, as for what advice I would give, I would tell her to go for it so long as she can break a 150. If she can’t do that, I would give up unless it was literally the most important thing in the world to your friend.

[smaug_]

And where will you be attending law school? Are you following this advice yourself?

[Ludo!]

I am going to tell you what no one else here will, and I know it will probably gain me some criticism, but here it goes.

If your “friend” wants to go to law school, she is going to need to retake. Her chances of admission into any accredited school with that score is slim to none. However, I disagree with the earlier poster that she will need a 25 point increase to be successful. To get into an approved law school, she is going to need a 6 to 8 point increase. I WOULD recommend she shoot higher than that, because while a score of 146-148 would get her into a third or fourth tier school, she wouldn’t likely receive any scholarship money and lower ranked schools have notoriously high tuition rates.

However, with her GPA, and given that she has a masters, if she can bring it up to a 150 or higher, I think she has a decent chance at some good schools, and maybe even a couple in the top 100. Everyone here will tell you third tier schools are not worth the money, and for the most part this is true. However, some aren’t really that bad, and can even offer a reasonable tuition rate. If she can hit in the 150 to 153 range, she can land a decent scholarship with her GPA.
Bottom line, your friend doesn’t have much of a chance without a retake, even in the most generous of circumstances. As for your advice, it depends on how bad she wants it.

If she works hard and can hit a 146 or 147, I would tell her to go IF that is what she REALLY wants, but she needs to realize that she will most likely be taking on a mountain of debt, and go through a very long period of unemployment afterward.

If she can break at least a 150, I would remain very encouraging, because she will have some decent options, and maybe even at a couple top 100 schools (she will never be a “Harvey”, but she can definitely get into a decent law school, and maybe even be offered some scholarship money.

If she can get a 155+, her options are even better…. In case you don’t see the trend in this, the higher the score, the better her future obviously.
Now, as for what advice I would give, I would tell her to go for it so long as she can break a 150. If she can’t do that, I would give up unless it was literally the most important thing in the world to your friend.

All your posts suck and I confuse you with IGF. Can you change your tar

[bizzybone1313]

If I was in your shoes, I would get on MSWord and type out the following: (1) http://www.jdunderground.com, (2) http://www.lawschooltransparency.com and (3) http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/. After doing this, print it out on a nice piece of resume paper and put this document in a very expensive gift box. Hand this gift to your friend and save her from a life of misery. After discussing my law school ambitions with a couple of friends, some of them have considered pursuing a law degree. The problem is a lot of them wouldn't mind attending the local TTT. I am not going to let my friends crash and burn like this.

[Steve2207]

And where will you be attending law school? Are you following this advice yourself?

And here comes the criticism. OP you should be forewarned that this thread will likely turn into a forum to bash my comments, but, I will take it in the hopes that my input was helpful.

[03152016]

.

[20130312]

All your posts suck and I confuse you with IGF. Can you change your tar

Seriously, what the hell man.

And no, your comments weren't helpful. The reason we will all bash you is because you're dead wrong.

[smaug_]

And where will you be attending law school? Are you following this advice yourself?

And here comes the criticism. OP you should be forewarned that this thread will likely turn into a forum to bash my comments, but, I will take it in the hopes that my input was helpful.

The most helpful thing for most people who want to go to law school is to tell them they shouldn't go. The most helpful thing to say to most people who are accepted is "don't go."

I am honestly curious what your biases are. It's easy to say "TLS is going to flame me for this, but [shitty advice.]" It takes more guts to say what your background/basis for giving that advice is.

[Steve2207]

And where will you be attending law school? Are you following this advice yourself?

And here comes the criticism. OP you should be forewarned that this thread will likely turn into a forum to bash my comments, but, I will take it in the hopes that my input was helpful.

The most helpful thing for most people who want to go to law school is to tell them they shouldn't go. The most helpful thing to say to most people who are accepted is "don't go."

I am honestly curious what your biases are. It's easy to say "TLS is going to flame me for this, but [shitty advice.]" It takes more guts to say what your background/basis for giving that advice is.

Well, for one thing, I DID say for her to tell her friend to retake, so I am not sure how that advice is so bad. My bias is that I know some VERY successful lawyers that graduated from lower ranking schools. Of course, that isn’t the norm, which is why I said that she should really think it through before committing if she does retake, and those are her only options. My feeling is that not everyone is going to hit a T14, and that’s ok. If someone has the drive and the calling to practice law, why discourage them if they could potentially be successfully? Admittedly, someone with a 140 probably doesn’t have much of a chance in law school, but I disagree that their retake needs to be at least in the 92nd percentile in order for them to pursue a career in law. Most importantly, and I will admit that I left this out, Her friend needs to shoot as high as she can, and by all means do the best that she can do. Nevertheless, if her best ends up being a mediocre score (which IMO is in the 150-153 range), she should not just throw in the towel if the law is her passion, because she does have options.

[dingbat]

I am going to tell you what no one else here will, and I know it will probably gain me some criticism, but here it goes.

If your “friend” wants to go to law school, she is going to need to retake. Her chances of admission into any accredited school with that score is slim to none. However, I disagree with the earlier poster that she will need a 25 point increase to be successful. To get into an approved law school, she is going to need a 6 to 8 point increase. I WOULD recommend she shoot higher than that, because while a score of 146-148 would get her into a third or fourth tier school, she wouldn’t likely receive any scholarship money and lower ranked schools have notoriously high tuition rates.

However, with her GPA, and given that she has a masters, if she can bring it up to a 150 or higher, I think she has a decent chance at some good schools, and maybe even a couple in the top 100.

you have a strange definition of "good schools". The only schools that aren't in the top 100 that are worth attending are schools like North Dakota, or Wyoming, because they're the only school the state. Many schools that are "in the top 100" aren't worth attending, because, for example, there are three other schools in the same city which are held in better regards. Unless the friend specifically wants to work in Sioux Falls, fine, go to a school that's unranked. Otherwise, it's a bad idea (they're unranked for a reason)

Everyone here will tell you third tier schools are not worth the money, and for the most part this is true. However, some aren’t really that bad, and can even offer a reasonable tuition rate. If she can hit in the 150 to 153 range, she can land a decent scholarship with her GPA.

see above comment. The only schools that will land a scholarship with a 150-153 are not worth attending, even free (unless they're the only school in the state)

Bottom line, your friend doesn’t have much of a chance without a retake, even in the most generous of circumstances. As for your advice, it depends on how bad she wants it.

finally, something that makes sense

If she works hard and can hit a 146 or 147, I would tell her to go IF that is what she REALLY wants, but she needs to realize that she will most likely be taking on a mountain of debt, and go through a very long period of unemployment afterward.

So, you're recommending a very long period of unemployment? Nice friend you are

If she can break at least a 150, I would remain very encouraging, because she will have some decent options, and maybe even at a couple top 100 schools (she will never be a “Harvey”, but she can definitely get into a decent law school, and maybe even be offered some scholarship money.

you're repeating yourself, but it's not any more true than the first time around

If she can get a 155+, her options are even better…. In case you don’t see the trend in this, the higher the score, the better her future obviously.
Now, as for what advice I would give, I would tell her to go for it so long as she can break a 150. If she can’t do that, I would give up unless it was literally the most important thing in the world to your friend.

You're on the right track, but let's set a minimum score at 160 - and even that's iffy.

[smaug_]

Nevertheless, if her best ends up being a mediocre score (which IMO is in the 150-153 range), she should not just throw in the towel if the law is her passion, because she does have options.

Yes, she should throw in the towel. Pursuing a dream is a great. Pursuing a dream you can't achieve isn't. Telling someone this is akin to telling a high school dropout that he should really just keep practicing because maybe someday he'll become a rock great. Yes, he could do it. It is possible. But, it is a very bad idea for almost anyone. More importantly if someone is TRULY driven, driven to the extent necessary to succeed against those abysmal odds, they won't listen to you anyway. But, anyone who is rational (which excludes those exceptional individuals above) should not follow your terrible advice.

[dingbat]

Nevertheless, if her best ends up being a mediocre score (which IMO is in the 150-153 range), she should not just throw in the towel if the law is her passion, because she does have options.

Yes, she should throw in the towel. Pursuing a dream is a great. Pursuing a dream you can't achieve isn't.

There's a reason it's called a dream