Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

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Jasper21

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Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by Jasper21 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:29 pm

Is June the easiest LSAT to take? I've what'd that it is and that's why the curve is a bit more strict. Does anyone know which is the "hardest" or "easiest?" I took the October LSAT and that was pretty intense but I did better than I expected.

I put certain words in quotes because obviously no test is a slam dunk. I'm speaking generally though before smart asses try and pollute this thread.

ahnhub

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by ahnhub » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:37 pm

If you're asking which LSAT gives you the best chance of getting a high score, the answer is they're all the same.

If you're asking which LSATs tend to have the most forgiving curves, it's pretty random.

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tmon

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by tmon » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:40 pm

ahnhub wrote:If you're asking which LSAT gives you the best chance of getting a high score, the answer is they're all the same.

If you're asking which LSATs tend to have the most forgiving curves, it's pretty random.
Actually, December traditionally has the most forgiving curves:
http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/ea ... -june.html

Regardless, you should take it only when you're ready, and early enough that you can apply early in your cycle.

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glucose101

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by glucose101 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:57 pm

But "most forgiving" curves are there for a reason--because on the whole they're more challenging.
tmon wrote: Regardless, you should take it only when you're ready, and early enough that you can apply early in your cycle.
+1

Jasper21

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by Jasper21 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:04 pm

thanks guys! i took it in october, but some of my friends were really trying to convince me that june was the easiest lsat

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3v3ryth1ng

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by 3v3ryth1ng » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:39 pm

Not trying to be a smartass.

There is absolutely, unequivocally, beyond a shadow of a doubt no advantage to be gained (in terms of difficulty) by taking the LSAT in one month and not another.

The statistics about which months have the most forgiving curves is accurate-- and it is meaningless. Don't draw any conclusions from it.

Take the test in June so you can be ready to apply earlier. If you don't like your score, you have time for a retake.
/thread

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dietcoke0

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by dietcoke0 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:45 pm

Well, if you are a night owl, then June can be easier, since it's later in the day than the other three tests.

willwash

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by willwash » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:22 am

tmon wrote:
ahnhub wrote:If you're asking which LSAT gives you the best chance of getting a high score, the answer is they're all the same.

If you're asking which LSATs tend to have the most forgiving curves, it's pretty random.
Actually, December traditionally has the most forgiving curves:
http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/ea ... -june.html
Unless February has the most lenient curve. No one knows.

Jasper21

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by Jasper21 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:26 am

willwash wrote:
tmon wrote:
ahnhub wrote:If you're asking which LSAT gives you the best chance of getting a high score, the answer is they're all the same.

If you're asking which LSATs tend to have the most forgiving curves, it's pretty random.
Actually, December traditionally has the most forgiving curves:
http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/ea ... -june.html
Unless February has the most lenient curve. No one knows.

This.

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willwash

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by willwash » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:40 am

Jasper21 wrote:
willwash wrote:
tmon wrote:
ahnhub wrote:If you're asking which LSAT gives you the best chance of getting a high score, the answer is they're all the same.

If you're asking which LSATs tend to have the most forgiving curves, it's pretty random.
Actually, December traditionally has the most forgiving curves:
http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/ea ... -june.html
Unless February has the most lenient curve. No one knows.

This.
Actually I take it back. The bastards at LSAC know but they're not telling! :twisted:

If the curve is based on how well people score on that administration on average, I'd bet February has a generous curve. February is kind of la-la-land. You're getting the extreme stragglers (lazy, ie probably did not prepare very well), the desparate retakers (statistics working against them, ie, if they had gotten a high score they wouldn't be retaking), or people getting the jump on the next cycle (probably employed, been out of school for a while so their brain is a little rusty). I'm fairly willing to bet average scores on the Feb test are a little lower. Whether this would mean a more generous curve I don't know.

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glucose101

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by glucose101 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:02 am

3v3ryth1ng wrote: The statistics about which months have the most forgiving curves is accurate-- and it is meaningless. Don't draw any conclusions from it.
/thread
I wouldn't say meaningless. They're curved heavily for a reason.

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by hotchkiss1 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:51 am

troll

American_in_China

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by American_in_China » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:49 am

None. Every single test has about the exact same score distribution. The bigger the curve, the harder the test is uncurved. The small, the easier. But since they equate scores, it won't really matter.

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tomwatts

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by tomwatts » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:16 am

willwash wrote:If the curve is based on how well people score on that administration on average, I'd bet February has a generous curve. February is kind of la-la-land. You're getting the extreme stragglers (lazy, ie probably did not prepare very well), the desparate retakers (statistics working against them, ie, if they had gotten a high score they wouldn't be retaking), or people getting the jump on the next cycle (probably employed, been out of school for a while so their brain is a little rusty). I'm fairly willing to bet average scores on the Feb test are a little lower. Whether this would mean a more generous curve I don't know.
The test isn't curved; it's equated. That means they're all the same, statistically, and they all have been the same for the past 20 years.

I do wonder -- and have never bothered to see if there's easily available data -- whether scaled score frequencies are the same for each month. I would expect February scores to be lower than, say, June scores, even though a 160 on February is just as easy/hard to get as a 160 in June, but I've never seen that confirmed or refuted. As far as I know, they release percentiles on a 5-year basis, not for individual tests, so you can't tell from that, and I haven't combed through the other reports.

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3v3ryth1ng

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by 3v3ryth1ng » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:00 am

glucose101 wrote:
3v3ryth1ng wrote: The statistics about which months have the most forgiving curves is accurate-- and it is meaningless. Don't draw any conclusions from it.
/thread
I wouldn't say meaningless. They're curved heavily for a reason.
The fact that December's LSAT curves were, on average, more "lenient" means nothing, except that when averaged, December's LSAT curves were, on average, more "lenient." You can literally infer absolutely nothing about a particular test from this statistic.

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KevinP

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by KevinP » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:15 am

tomwatts wrote:
willwash wrote:If the curve is based on how well people score on that administration on average, I'd bet February has a generous curve. February is kind of la-la-land. You're getting the extreme stragglers (lazy, ie probably did not prepare very well), the desparate retakers (statistics working against them, ie, if they had gotten a high score they wouldn't be retaking), or people getting the jump on the next cycle (probably employed, been out of school for a while so their brain is a little rusty). I'm fairly willing to bet average scores on the Feb test are a little lower. Whether this would mean a more generous curve I don't know.
The test isn't curved; it's equated. That means they're all the same, statistically, and they all have been the same for the past 20 years.

I do wonder -- and have never bothered to see if there's easily available data -- whether scaled score frequencies are the same for each month. I would expect February scores to be lower than, say, June scores, even though a 160 on February is just as easy/hard to get as a 160 in June, but I've never seen that confirmed or refuted. As far as I know, they release percentiles on a 5-year basis, not for individual tests, so you can't tell from that, and I haven't combed through the other reports.
If you are still interested for curiosity's sake, the score frequencies between months are pretty significant. The data is available: http://www.lsac.org/LsacResources/Resea ... -10-03.pdf (Pages 42-44)

For example, here's the data for the 2009-2010 cycle:
June: Mean = 151.68, SD = 10.51
October: Mean = 152.29, SD = 10.12
December: Mean = 150.11, SD = 9.92
February: Mean = 148.07, SD = 10.06

June/October have a noticeably better pool of test takers than December/February. You can always calculate the z-score to find the approximate percentile for a given LSAT score.

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by JasonR » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:36 am

willwash wrote: If the curve is based on how well people score on that administration on average...
It isn't.

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willwash

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by willwash » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:57 am

JasonR wrote:
willwash wrote: If the curve is based on how well people score on that administration on average...
It isn't.
Well, then what is it based on then? If it's based on the "difficultly" of the test, then the only way to measure that is to look at how people scored on it. If people statistically do worse on a given test, then it will be assessed as a more "difficult" test. I'm sure they get some useful data from the previous use of the questions in experimental sections, but they'd better not be solely relying on that!

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suspicious android

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by suspicious android » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:20 pm

I don't know why these threads make me so mad, but they do. They do.

Jasper21

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by Jasper21 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:31 pm

The curve is set eem before you take the test.

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glucose101

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by glucose101 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:40 pm

It really depends what "easy" means to you. Would you rather have an "easier" exam that you have to miss less on to get score X, or have a "harder" exam that you can miss more on to get score X?

While nothing's set in stone which's "easier," given the idea of the curve, I'd rather have the former, as I think the psychological preconception of the latter would not make the tests equal in my eyes.

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tomwatts

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by tomwatts » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:51 pm

KevinP wrote:If you are still interested for curiosity's sake, the score frequencies between months are pretty significant. The data is available: http://www.lsac.org/LsacResources/Resea ... -10-03.pdf (Pages 42-44)

For example, here's the data for the 2009-2010 cycle:
June: Mean = 151.68, SD = 10.51
October: Mean = 152.29, SD = 10.12
December: Mean = 150.11, SD = 9.92
February: Mean = 148.07, SD = 10.06

June/October have a noticeably better pool of test takers than December/February. You can always calculate the z-score to find the approximate percentile for a given LSAT score.
Huh. I wasn't really sure whether to expect nothing at all or something relatively sizable. Four points from top (October) to bottom (February) is about the least that I would call "relatively sizable," but it still is sizable. Interesting!

And personally, I'd rather have harder questions and a more forgiving scoring grid. I have more confidence in my ability to get hard stuff than in my ability to avoid silly mistakes.

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3v3ryth1ng

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by 3v3ryth1ng » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:34 pm

OP:

Just to be clear, YES, one particular test may be "harder" than another. Personally, I found that December 2010's was actually much harder than June 2011's, hands down. I'm not sure if that's the reason for difference in curves (-14 vs. -11).

However, they do not choose the difficulty based on the administration date. Looking at past averages of curves is foolish and is an example the types of flawed reasoning the LSAT seeks to punish people for.

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by notaznguy » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:57 pm

According to TLS, the 40s are the easiest.

Jasper21

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Re: Which LSAT is the "easiest?"

Post by Jasper21 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:29 pm

3v3ryth1ng wrote:OP:

Just to be clear, YES, one particular test may be "harder" than another. Personally, I found that December 2010's was actually much harder than June 2011's, hands down. I'm not sure if that's the reason for difference in curves (-14 vs. -11).

However, they do not choose the difficulty based on the administration date. Looking at past averages of curves is foolish and is an example the types of flawed reasoning the LSAT seeks to punish people for.


Thanks !! I'm going to email this thread. Thanks a lot

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