Disagree with Preptest 52 Section 1, LR, #5 Forum

[secretad]

This is a must be true question.

I apparently need help on this "easy" question, easy being probable because of its placement at #5, because I am not sold that B is the correct answer. I did not like any answer choices on this question.

The stimulus states that everyone in Biba's neighborhood is PERMITTED to swim at some time during each day that it is open, thus it is not the case that everyone HAS to swim.

Further rules are: No children under 6 are PERMITTED to swim between noon and 5 PM. After 5 PM until closing, it is only available to adults.

The correct answer to this must be true question is B) If Biba's next-door neighbor has a child under the age of 6, then Barton Pool is open before noon.

How is that a must be true statement? Even if Biba's next-door neighbor has a child under the age of 6, the pool does not necessarily have to be open. That child may be the only under 6 child in the neighborhood. And that child may be afraid of water and chooses not to swim. The pool would not not have to be open before noon to accommodate the child.

[dakatz]

PM me the text of the Q itself as well as the choices you are debating between and I can help you out.

[denardisgod]

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[dakatz]

Actually, I guess you gave enough info for me to pretty quickly see why the right answer has to be true.

Edit: Post above me is exactly what I was going to say. Everyone has the ability to swim. So if the kid under 6 is going to swim, it must be before 12, since no one of that age will be allowed in the pool from 12 to close.

[secretad]

You have it right when you say:

thus it is not the case that everyone HAS to swim.

Everyone is permitted to swim; they can swim if they want to. So, if in the neighborhood there is a child under six, then the pool must have a time availible for children under six to swim. Since from 12 until until closing no child under six can swim, the pool must be availible for use to children under six before 12.

It does not matter if the child wants to swim or not. He/her just must be able to do so if he/she ever decides to swim. That is what is meant by permitted to swim. That's why it must true that the pool is open before 12. hth

I feel that is a leap that must be made. So what you are saying is that the pool will open before noon even if there is one child under six and she was born paralyzed and is afraid of water? With that information in mind, certainly the pool would not open before noon.

[secretad]

Actually, I guess you gave enough info for me to pretty quickly see why the right answer has to be true.

Edit: Post above me is exactly what I was going to say. Everyone has the ability to swim. So if the kid under 6 is going to swim, it must be before 12, since no one of that age will be allowed in the pool from 12 to close.

I would have no problem if the answer choice stated, "If Biba's next-door neighbor has a child under six, then Barton Pool could be open before noon."

To say that they will open before noon just because there is one five year old child that is paralyzed and has never swam in her life, is, I feel, a leap from the statements given.

[dakatz]

You have it right when you say:

thus it is not the case that everyone HAS to swim.

Everyone is permitted to swim; they can swim if they want to. So, if in the neighborhood there is a child under six, then the pool must have a time availible for children under six to swim. Since from 12 until until closing no child under six can swim, the pool must be availible for use to children under six before 12.

It does not matter if the child wants to swim or not. He/her just must be able to do so if he/she ever decides to swim. That is what is meant by permitted to swim. That's why it must true that the pool is open before 12. hth

I feel that is a leap that must be made. So what you are saying is that the pool will open before noon even if there is one child under six and she was born paralyzed and is afraid of water? With that information in mind, certainly the pool would not open before noon.

You are completely overthinking and overcomplicating this. Break it down into its basic parts and don't add in weird additions that are obviously confusing you:

1. The pool is open to everyone at some point. That means that everyone who wants to swim, regardless of age, has some time of day in which they will be allowed to do so.

2. After 12, people under 6 will NOT be allowed to swim.

3. So, knowing that everyone who wants to swim has the ability to do so, a if a kid under 6 wants to go in the pool, then when can he do so? Before 12, since no one that age can swim past 12. I'm not sure what is complicated about this.

[secretad]

I am not making this complicated. This is a MUST BE TRUE situation. The fact that I throw in that there could be one paralyzed child under six years old is not something that should detract from something that MUST BE TRUE. However, I feel that it does detract, thus that is why I felt it was not something that must be true.

[dakatz]

I am not making this complicated. This is a MUST BE TRUE situation. The fact that I throw in that there could be one paralyzed child under six years old is not something that should detract from something that MUST BE TRUE. However, I feel that it does detract, thus that is why I felt it was not something that must be true.

1. We KNOW that everyone who wants to swim has some time of day in which they do so.

2. We KNOW that after 12, no one under 6 can swim

3. So if a kid under 6 wants to swim (keeping in mind that EVERYONE has the ability to swim at some point) then it MUST BE TRUE that the pool is open before 12

[bk1]

I don't understand why this confuses you.

Everyone must have the possibility of swimming whether they want to do it or not. The option has to be there. Even if someone (e.g. a paralyzed person) does not want to do it, there must be a time at which it is possible for them to do it.

[dakatz]

I PM'ed you back. Hopefully it clears it up.

[ThomasMN]

Not brain surgery. No one has to swim, but everyone has to be given the chance to do so at some point. So, if the neighborhood has a six year old kid there must be some time where the child would be permitted to swim, even if the child does not swim or even cannot swim. Technically, the ability to swim has nothing to do with the way the question is framed. Everyone in the neighborhood could be a crippled leper, but the pool would have to be available for their age group at some point and time.

[denardisgod]

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[secretad]

I appreciate all of the responses. Thank you for your time. I understand that distinction better now, with the idea of the pool being open even if the child under 6 does not want to swim or cannot swim.