155. Dec. retake Forum

[sharpshooter]

got a 155 on the june test. pretty much took it blind, panicked on the lg and missed 16 of 23 which is actually kinda encouraging because i feel like i can really concentrate on that and really improve my overall score. did two practice tests the week before and scored 152 and a 160 on them so my prep for the june test was nonexistent. i know im capable of alot better. i think with some actual prep i can get consistently in the 160s. but my concern is will my dec score be too late for this cycle. and should i go ahead and apply early and send the schools my new score as soon as i get it?

[sharpshooter]

also cant take the oct test because of football

[Columbia Law]

To tell you the truth, you probably have a better shot at making the NFL than getting into a school that will get you a job. You don't seem to care very much so my only advice would be to do the profession a favor by not littering it with another useless lawyer.

[fenway]

also cant take the oct test because of football

it would suck doing the prep during the season (although why not now?), but I think you'll be thanking yourself down the road if you are able to adequately prepare for and subsequently take the October exam. The Dec test will be received very late in the cycle, and people underestimate the importance of having your applications in early. I can emphasize with the time commitment burden you have with practice/travel/games; however, the test itself and timing of the app cycle is so important that it should push you to go balls out from now till' October. Best of luck with the lsat and your season

[Grizz]

also cant take the oct test because of football

it would suck doing the prep during the season (although why not now?), but I think you'll be thanking yourself down the road if you are able to adequately prepare for and subsequently take the October exam. The Dec test will be received very late in the cycle, and people underestimate the importance of having your applications in early. I can emphasize with the time commitment burden you have with practice/travel/games; however, the test itself and timing of the app cycle is so important that it should push you to go balls out from now till' October. Best of luck with the lsat and your season

Anecdote warning:

Dec. retaker here. Applied to a few schools mid Jan. Got in exactly where my numbers indicted, and I have committed to a school that I applied to in mid January where I got more $ than my numbers would have predicted. From what I've seen around here and on LSN, more points in Dec > applying earlier, with some exceptions (example: UGA seemed to run out of space for OOS people).

That said, to mitigate possible negative consequences, I'd try to have the other application material in ASAP so as soon as the score gets released the schools can look at it.

[sharpshooter]

thanks alot fenway. in regard to the other poster. yea i am actually pretty serious about law school. however, i decided very late that it was what i wanted to do and was in europe for the spring which made it hard to study for the lsat(was only in the states for 2 weeks before i took the test). and im from a very small rural town where i KNOW i can come back and get a job (and where i want to end up) so going TTT is not that terrible of an option for me. however, i would like to do well enough on the lsat to get significant scholly money or bump up my school ranking. so once again, how bad is taking the dec. lsat for this cycle?

rad, is it possible to go ahead and apply with the 155 then notify the schools of my new score once i get it? and should i do this or hold off on applying until i get the new score.

[Grizz]

rad, is it possible to go ahead and apply with the 155 then notify the schools of my new score once i get it? and should i do this or hold off on applying until i get the new score.

Do the former. Call the schools for their individual policies on this, but most (if not all) schools flat out won't make a decision on your file if they see you have a pending retake. Some may want you to include a letter about your pending retake to the effect of "Hold my file until the Dec. score." Again, call the schools to see what they want you to do, but getting the schools you apply to to wait until your next score (when you get the rest of your app in early) shouldn't be a problem.

[iceicebaby]

I'm in the same boat, man. I got a 156 in June 2010 with a PT high of 162, so I KNOW I can also do better.

First, don't listen to the a-holes that say you can't get a job at $160k a year at a NYC Big or Middle Law firm. I work at one (as a paralegal, granted) and the associates here have gone to Pace, St. John's, SUNY-Buffalo, transferred to G-town from other Tier 3 or 4 schools or stayed, and make a $160k starting salary.

What they have is what firms look for -- leadership and judgment. If you're a library rat with no upside other than your statistics, you're just as f***ed as the next guy. Firstly, the LSAT has zero bearing on your ability and does not reflect your personality at all. Many people on this board are elitist and are going to T20 schools. But I can tell you numerous stories of successful people that did not go to a T20 school and unsuccessful people that did go to a T20.

Long story short, if you can swing it, take it again in October (but if you have football or anything else, do NOT take it if you cannot devote serious time to prepping for it). If you're like me and can wait another year while working, take some serious time to prepare for your next (and final) LSAT in December. You have to put yourself in the best position possible to succeed and the best way to do that is assess your options realistically and don't let anyone tell you should switch professions just because your LSAT isn't up to the TLS standards.

Remember, at 155 LSAT, you're above average. Just because people here typically seem to get 165 - 180's (or so they claim), it doesn't mean you should be discouraged.

[alicrimson]

To tell you the truth, you probably have a better shot at making the NFL than getting into a school that will get you a job. You don't seem to care very much so my only advice would be to do the profession a favor by not littering it with another useless lawyer.

Because everyone who plays D1 football can go to the NFL....

[3|ink]

To tell you the truth, you probably have a better shot at making the NFL than getting into a school that will get you a job. You don't seem to care very much so my only advice would be to do the profession a favor by not littering it with another useless lawyer.

Smug alert!

[iceicebaby]

To tell you the truth, you probably have a better shot at making the NFL than getting into a school that will get you a job. You don't seem to care very much so my only advice would be to do the profession a favor by not littering it with another useless lawyer.

Btw, this kid is just bitter because he's probably at Columbia and is sick of seeing kids at "inferior" schools take his jobs.

Do yourself a favor, buddy, go network instead of hiding behind your impressive scholastic statistics. After all, a resume is mostly for job experience, not just your academic information. Otherwise, jobs would require transcripts only if they only cared about where you went to school and how well you did.

[sharpshooter]

thanks for the post rad and ice. im starting my prep next week. i have a job at a local firm and dont do much so i actually think i can devote a couple hours of my work day towards prep. but there is no way i can take it in oct. we have a game that day and i know some people will tell me to skip the game and that my education is more important. but i cannot and will not abandon my team. so that forces me into dec.

and more like d3...so you can definitely rule out the nfl.

[alicrimson]

thanks for the post rad and ice. im starting my prep next week. i have a job at a local firm and dont do much so i actually think i can devote a couple hours of my work day towards prep. but there is no way i can take it in oct. we have a game that day and i know some people will tell me to skip the game and that my education is more important. but i cannot and will not abandon my team. so that forces me into dec.

and more like d3...so you can definitely rule out the nfl.

You're a better teammate than I am. I'm talking to my coach on Tuesday about not racing that Saturday. Its going to be cute. Though Fall is kind of our bs season.

[iceicebaby]

Only you can know your priorities ... if football is number one, then I would do exactly what you're saying. Also, try taking a LSAT course like Testmasters if you can swing that too with a focus on the December test. I had friends who took it in December (and even February, though I do not recommend that) and did fine getting into schools.

Btw, don't downplay your time at the law firm you're working at. A professional legal recommendation can work wonders for your file, even if it is not as important as your LSAT or LSDAS GPA.

[Grizz]

Sigh.

First, don't listen to the a-holes that say you can't get a job at $160k a year at a NYC Big or Middle Law firm. I work at one (as a paralegal, granted) and the associates here have gone to Pace, St. John's, SUNY-Buffalo, transferred to G-town from other Tier 3 or 4 schools or stayed, and make a $160k starting salary.

1) Hiring from years past =/= hiring today

2) Transfers are not representative of the typical outcomes for the typical TTT students who actually DO graduate from the schools transferred from.

3) Stats don't lie. People even at the lower end of what could be called "national" schools, at Vanderbilt, in our most recent stats, had double the shot at a big firm hire (NLJ250, which encompasses most of the hiring that will enable to pay down sticker-sized debt) than Emory (ranked 22), and a 22% better shot than Wash U (ranked 19). St. John's? Less than 13%. There will always be outliers, for many at less prestigious schools, but big law is a pipe dream.

But I can tell you numerous stories of successful people that did not go to a T20 school and unsuccessful people that did go to a T20.

So what? There will always be outliers, but I know a lot more successful UF people than Stetson people, for example.

Remember, at 155 LSAT, you're above average. Just because people here typically seem to get 165 - 180's (or so they claim), it doesn't mean you should be discouraged.

Just "above average" doesn't get people into many schools that are worth going to. For a select few (OP may be one, though it's hard to say), TTT is the right choice (guaranteed jobs, insular market, dad's a partner, etc.) but for 95% of the people out there, it's not.

[sharpshooter]

hah yea good luck with that. hope it goes well. my crazy d-cord would literally kill me. a quote by him two years ago "i dont care if a six-year old girl lines up across from you. if you kill her we will send flowers to her funeral."

yea im not being lazy but the lawyers here i know pretty well and get along with well and they try to keep me busy and i try to keep myself busy but i inevitably have about 2 hours a day where i find myself surfing the web and being a waste of life.

and i feel confident that i will be alright coming out of a TTT. i know for a fact that the firm im with in my town is stretched past there capabilities with a huge case load and i feel that i will be fine coming back home in 4 years.

[Columbia Law]

To tell you the truth, you probably have a better shot at making the NFL than getting into a school that will get you a job. You don't seem to care very much so my only advice would be to do the profession a favor by not littering it with another useless lawyer.

Because everyone who plays D1 football can go to the NFL....

1. That is my point. He has a little shot at either.

2. You said you are going to miss a "race." Does that mean you run track? Track doesn't even count as playing a sport. It requires the least amount of athleticism. You do what other sports do as punishment.

3. Anyone who misses a game/event for a test is an absolute clown and has no character.

[iceicebaby]

Rad, I actually agree with you on most of what you're saying.

What I am trying to get across is that it is not the end of the world. I might be overly positive, but that is because I am working as an equal with people going to Yale Law, NYU Law and other T10 schools this fall. I can tell you, if you're given an earned gift of academic excellence that you have no idea what to do with, then it's worthless. If you are good at selling yourself and putting the work in where it matters, then you will do fine.

In the end, everything equals out. While you dub these people I know as "outliers," the point is still not lost. You have to work harder at Syracuse to get your foot in the door than at NYU, and that fact is certainly true. But not everyone can be YHS, T5, T10, T20 or even T100, but that doesn't mean you should abandon hope entirely. If you're top of your class at Syracuse, you will have better prospects than middle of the pack at GWU. That is a fact backed up by my personal experience at Big Law firms in NYC.

[Grizz]

You have to work harder at Syracuse to get your foot in the door than at NYU, and that fact is certainly true.

Not quite. You have to work harder/smarter than 95% of your class. Hard work does not always equal results, as there can only be a few people at the top, thanks to the curve.

[3|ink]

2. You said you are going to miss a "race." Does that mean you run track? Track doesn't even count as playing a sport. It requires the least amount of athleticism. You do what other sports do as punishment.

Track is in the spring. Since the race she's missing is in the fall, I suspect it is a Cross Country race.

Your ignorance is amusing. The problem with smug people is they think so highly of themselves that they often forget to check their own logic (I use the term loosely). By yours, the athletic demand of a sport is measured by how complicated it is. Since Cross Country and Track simply entail the activity commonly assigned as 'punishment' in other sports, Cross Country and Track must require the least amount of athleticism.

Track and Cross Country runners run harder than Football or lacrosse players. The question is, does this difference in effort put forth in running make up for [edit: not] having a wide range of mediocre skills (i.e. catching, throwing & running)? Runners focus on one thing and stick with it. The rest of you can't make up your damn minds.

Honestly, it'd be absurd (perhaps impossible) to present empirical evidence favoring any sport in terms of its athletic demand. However, I can say firsthand that no D1 lacrosse player could keep up with any D1 track runners at my school. I know this because our teams ran sprints together for some ungodly reason. On the day we were assigned to run 25 400s, the lacrosse players gave up at 10.

They call it punishment for a reason. It isn't easy.

3. Anyone who misses a game/event for a test is an absolute clown and has no character.

I wonder what they say about people who troll internet forums.

[alicrimson]

To tell you the truth, you probably have a better shot at making the NFL than getting into a school that will get you a job. You don't seem to care very much so my only advice would be to do the profession a favor by not littering it with another useless lawyer.

Because everyone who plays D1 football can go to the NFL....

1. That is my point. He has a little shot at either.

2. You said you are going to miss a "race." Does that mean you run track? Track doesn't even count as playing a sport. It requires the least amount of athleticism. You do what other sports do as punishment.

3. Anyone who misses a game/event for a test is an absolute clown and has no character.

1. The odds of getting a job as a lawyer are infinitely better than making the NFL.
2. Not on the track team and as for being easy, race a D1 runner in any event and they will smoke you.
3. How do I not have character? My character is neither here nor there. I have a year of eligibility and will be able to continue my sport 1L year, should I get my goal score. One small race vs. a whole year...
4. You're probably from the camp of losers who played maybe jv football but have tons to say when it comes to athletics that they know absolutely nothing about. I'm sorry you didn't make the basketball team your sophomore year. Plese remove the chip from your shoulder and the stick from your ass.

[Columbia Law]

To tell you the truth, you probably have a better shot at making the NFL than getting into a school that will get you a job. You don't seem to care very much so my only advice would be to do the profession a favor by not littering it with another useless lawyer.

Because everyone who plays D1 football can go to the NFL....

1. That is my point. He has a little shot at either.

2. You said you are going to miss a "race." Does that mean you run track? Track doesn't even count as playing a sport. It requires the least amount of athleticism. You do what other sports do as punishment.

3. Anyone who misses a game/event for a test is an absolute clown and has no character.

1. The odds of getting a job as a lawyer are infinitely better than making the NFL.
2. Not on the track team and as for being easy, race a D1 runner in any event and they will smoke you.
3. How do I not have character? My character is neither here nor there. I have a year of eligibility and will be able to continue my sport 1L year, should I get my goal score. One small race vs. a whole year...
4. You're probably from the camp of losers who played maybe jv football but have tons to say when it comes to athletics that they know absolutely nothing about. I'm sorry you didn't make the basketball team your sophomore year. Plese remove the chip from your shoulder and the stick from your ass.

D1 athlete, played a real sport, two sport all section in HS (including football) in my states big school conference (AA), would SMOKE you in a race. Track stars are just people who couldn't play a sport that involves skill so they had to use a secondary skill from most sports to even be on a "team" in college. Obviously you didn't do very well in school either because I never said making the NFL was easier than becoming a lawyer. I said HIS chance is.

Enjoy playing (participating? what do you use?) a secondary sport . Track/ X Country are the people who are socially awkward and can't do anything else. No one who can play football/baseball/basketball/lax in college would go anywhere near track.

[alicrimson]

[deleted] This is getting absurd.

And for the second time in this thread, I am not on the track/xc team. I guess my outright statement of this wasn't clear enough for the brilliant minds of Columbia.

OP: good luck and I'm sorry to derail your thread.

[iceicebaby]

D1 athlete, played a real sport, two sport all section in HS (including football) in my states big school conference (AA), would SMOKE you in a race. Track stars are just people who couldn't play a sport that involves skill so they had to use a secondary skill from most sports to even be on a "team" in college. Obviously you didn't do very well in school either because I never said making the NFL was easier than becoming a lawyer. I said HIS chance is.

Enjoy playing (participating? what do you use?) a secondary sport . Track/ X Country are the people who are socially awkward and can't do anything else. No one who can play football/baseball/basketball/lax in college would go anywhere near track.

Get a life, kid. People like you who provide no help but instead are negative ego-trippers do not deserve Columbia legal educations. You're just going to turn out to be another asshole lawyer that makes the rest of us look bad. And who cares about your athletic talents? Keep on living the dream, Hero.

With that said, OP, just put your nose to the grindstone like I also have to and you will do just fine. There is nowhere to go but up at this point, so don't let Mr. Columbia Law d-bag types get to you.

[Grizz]

[deleted] This is getting absurd.

And for the second time in this thread, I am not on the track/xc team. I guess my outright statement of this wasn't clear enough for the brilliant minds of Columbia.

OP: good luck and I'm sorry to derail your thread.

Crew?