LSAT 5timer Forum

[KE$HA]

I just took the LSAT for the 5th time. I have a Masters and PHD degree from well respected NYC schools. Unfortunately the LSAT is my Moby Dick. I completed the Kaplan Extreme course leading to the Feb test and was scoring in the upper 160s hitting 170+ numerous times. Will schools be risk averse to my lowers 4 scores providing I have a 170+?

FYI: My previous 4 scores were in the 140s when I was still in college and in my early 20s. My GPA is 3.8 and I have WE with govt agencies.


TYIA

[JasonR]

If your original scores are more than 5 years old, law schools won't see them.

[patrickd139]

I just took the LSAT for the 5th time. I have a Masters and PHD degree from well respected NYC schools. Unfortunately the LSAT is my Moby Dick. I completed the Kaplan Extreme course leading to the Feb test and was scoring in the upper 160s hitting 170+ numerous times. Will schools be risk averse to my lowers 4 scores providing I have a 170+?

FYI: My previous 4 scores were in the 140s when I was still in college and in my early 20s. My GPA is 3.8 and I have WE with govt agencies.


TYIA

Probably going to keep you out of HYS. Depending on how high your new score is, you might have a shot at one of the lower T14s. Tough to tell until you get a number, though.

If your original scores are more than 5 years old, law schools won't see them.

Not sure about this. I know they're not valid, but I'm not sure no one can see them.

[KE$HA]

Oh, well I think they will be seen then, my first LSAT was in 2006.

[jks289]

They will see them all. And it is a cause for concern. You will need to give them a good reason why 4 scores in the 140 are less indicative than a single score in the 170s. I am not sure what a good excuse for that would be. It doesn't make sense to say you never prepared for the previous 4 times, can you articulate what made this time different?

ETA: I do admire your tenacity. I just did my third test trying to hit my PT averages, and honestly if it doesn't work out I will just give up and go to a school I have been accepted to already.

[KE$HA]

You're right 4 times is insane. However, the first time I was a junior in college, the second time I was working and taking care of my ailing parents (heart condition and blindness) and the 3rd and 4th times (oct/dec) I was in the middle of preparing my dissertation defenses. In hindsight I really thought I could do it all. Work, family, LSAT, but it wasn't enough. This time was the first time I had time to do lsat homework, really review and I was finally content with everything with my family and I really didn't have any distractions. My job allowed me to study in between work so I do have a good feeling about this as compared to previous times when it was simply a rush job. I don't want schools to pity me but 5 times is almost necessary to explain. I surely hope when scores come out it will put this journey to an end!

[dynomite]

You're right 4 times is insane. However, the first time I was a junior in college, the second time I was working and taking care of my ailing parents (heart condition and blindness) and the 3rd and 4th times (oct/dec) I was in the middle of preparing my dissertation defenses. In hindsight I really thought I could do it all. Work, family, LSAT, but it wasn't enough. This time was the first time I had time to do lsat homework, really review and I was finally content with everything with my family and I really didn't have any distractions. My job allowed me to study in between work so I do have a good feeling about this as compared to previous times when it was simply a rush job.

There's your addendum -- already written. I might try to include some information elsewhere that explains why you're in a fundamentally different place now than you were in 2006 -- those are your reasons, but make sure they fit together as a coherent whole, indicative of someone who has now developed the intellectual and personal fortitude to focus on your law school studies.

[sophia.olive]

4 times!!! everyone is doing something while they are taking the lsat. everyone is also studying working full time etc... better angle it more towards maturity, because the work/school excuse is invalid.

[jks289]

4 times!!! everyone is doing something while they are taking the lsat. everyone is also studying working full time etc... better angle it more towards maturity, because the work/school excuse is invalid.

Yeah, not everyone is the primary caregiver for a sick parent, and not everyone is writing a dissertation while studying. I agree the OP didn't use great judgment in taking it repeatedly without preparing, but that doesn't mean the excuses for not doing well are "invalid."

[sophia.olive]

seriously 4 times? i would knock out two with the op's reasons at most.

if you take the lsat 5 times you better have a 180

you could guess on 5 tests and make a 160+ at least once

you wont have that many tries in anything else in life.

[jcl2]

seriously 4 times? i would knock out two with the op's reasons at most.

if you take the lsat 5 times you better have a 180

you could guess on 5 tests and make a 160+ at least once

you wont have that many tries in anything else in life.

I realize that was a joke, but I think the perception of LSAT scores is a little skewed here on TLS. If you just guessed on 5 tests it would be extremely unlikely that you would even break 130 on any of them. 150-151 is average, and 160 is approaching 90th percentile.

OP: Write an addendum, I don't know if it will do much good, but it won't hurt. If you do score a 170+, blanket the T14 and any top regional schools that you are interested in, some of the schools may reject you because of the previous scores, but I bet at least 1 T14 (probably more) will look past them and only consider your highest score; you obviously have other credentials that show conclusively that you are academically capable .

[sophia.olive]

I don't know if skewed is the correct assessment. There is a lean towards what it takes to get into TLS's. But that is why its called TLS. There is also the economy, the fact that the op already has a PHD and is now considering a major risk, the fact that the op doesn't even know what hesh got on the feb yet, etc...

OP i didnt realize it was hypothetical. If you dont get the high 60's-170+ that you hit a couple of times in practice tests, can you take the test again?
My entire point was to make sure you dont make it seem like you had extreme inconveniences, like being a Junior in college. Articulate along the lines of maturity and focus because if it is based on circumstance, they will look at the hundreds of people that had thousands of more problems and got a 170+ the first time. If they think working and being a junior prevented you from scoring high or close to high, then they will think millions of other things could come up while your in school, while your a lawyer, and then you wont have 5 chances. By focusing on maturity you can present it as a problem that is over, not an environment that you could not control but which has now settled down enough for you to make a more representative score.
I'm being harsh, ? i guess, but i just want you to think creatively about how admits will view your situation. Maybe they wont look at it like I will but if you feel like you need to address my perspective in your addendum, maybe you should.

Basically, this is the first thing that would pop into my head. "we weigh the lsat, more than the gpa, as an equalizer. Most people take the test 1,2,3 times, this person took it 5 times. That makes it loose its equalizing value, it makes you seem completely unprepared. It makes you seem like someone who needs more chances than everyone else." Now make me think why I should admit you over someone who has the same score as you, and took the test once.

EXample
"My previous 4 scores were in the 140s when I was still in college and in my early 20s." dont say stuff like this in your addendum, a vast majority are in their early 20's and are not taking the test 4 times and scoring in the 140's.

[sophia.olive]

op is 3.8 your undergrad gpa?
are you a urm?
where do you want to go?
i think only hys average. maybe CC. i forget, its around here somewhere. most t14 take highest though.

[jonas586]

OP I think if your LSAT score does improve, you will still need to reevaluate your taste in music.

Ke$ha will automatically preclude you from succeeding in law school, or life for that matter.