The Official June 2014 Study Group Forum

[Augy1]

To everyone who has Cambridge LR drilling packets, what do you think of Double_Daily's advice to only do the level 1's and 2's and save the 3's and 4's for section 5 of PT's. Or presumably for focused drilling when you spot weaknesses during PT phase.

Is everyone drilling ALL questions for each question type for LR? Or is anyone saving some for later?

To me - and this is just my potentially uninformed opinion - but I would think that you definitely should drill 3s and 4s. Why would you save the hardest stuff for PT's? You'll get plenty of hard stuff in the PT as it is . To me, you would want to go into PT's knowing that you have seen the worst of the worst in the LR world. After intensely drilling level 3s and 4s and eventually doing well on them, I think not only will it give you a bunch of confidence but it will help you nail those really easy ones.

From what i have read, LR is much less about getting every question done in 1:20 as it is about nailing those easy ones in 20 seconds and banking time to spend on those really nitty gritty questions from 15-20, 8-10, and potentially 22-25.

Yea I didn't really understand Daily_Double's logic in doing that. He also recommended drilling all 1's or all 2's in groups of 30, rather than mixing it up. I also don't think I agree with this advice entirely, but I have tried it. I think my packets are better when I have a good mix of 1's, 2's, 3's, and 4's. But I am drilling in groups of 30, so it's like an extra long LR section. I consider it an endurance building factor while also drilling.

How does everyone review questions they get wrong? What is your process? I've been saving all my missed ones and done some review on my own, but am curious to see what other people are doing for review. I'm only doing LR at the moment, but am open to hearing what people find works for RC and LG too. After all, I see on all credited TLS guides that review is of paramount importance.

Quick question. I recently just bought the Cambridge bundle and was going through the question types for LR and was wondering how do you know which questions belongs to which difficulty level? The footnote for each questions at the bottom only lists which pt the question was selected from

[Straw_Mandible]

Answer sheet. See my most recent post.

[Augy1]

Answer sheet. See my most recent post.

thanks! I figured they would be on the answer sheet, but I'm trying to avoid looking at the answer sheet so I don't spoil any questions... lol

[suitsfan]

Do you guys recommend first going through the Manhattan LSAT books before working on the LSAT trainer or vice versa. Does the order you work on them does not make a difference? I was also thinking about working through them concurrently.

[rebexness]

Answer sheet. See my most recent post.

thanks! I figured they would be on the answer sheet, but I'm trying to avoid looking at the answer sheet so I don't spoil any questions... lol

Before I start doing a packet, I mark the end of each section by level.

[ZVBXRPL]

Anyone in NYC looking for a study partner.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=222562

[alexrodriguez]

This thread is really picking up speed and I'm glad to see a few LSAT legends taking part in it.

I'm taking my time with PT 57. If I don't score well I'm going to have to reevaluate my study habits.

Once I'm finished with the LSAT trainer I don't think I'll be reading any more prep books. I'll only reference them if I need guidance in a particular area.

I really need to focus on drilling. When it comes to games I can sit down and do 10 in a row without it being a big deal.

LR and RC are much different. I'm concerned about my mental stamina.

50 LR questions
8 RC passages
8 games

I need to pick at least one of those everyday during the week.

On the weekends I'll have to pick from two.

I constantly have nightmares about this test.

Last night I was taking the real exam and everybody around me was trying to screw up my focus. It was horrifying.

[Captainunaccountable]

This thread is really picking up speed and I'm glad to see a few LSAT legends taking part in it.

I'm taking my time with PT 57. If I don't score well I'm going to have to reevaluate my study habits.

Once I'm finished with the LSAT trainer I don't think I'll be reading any more prep books. I'll only reference them if I need guidance in a particular area.

I really need to focus on drilling. When it comes to games I can sit down and do 10 in a row without it being a big deal.

LR and RC are much different. I'm concerned about my mental stamina.

50 LR questions
8 RC passages
8 games

I need to pick at least one of those everyday during the week.

On the weekends I'll have to pick from two.

I constantly have nightmares about this test.

Last night I was taking the real exam and everybody around me was trying to screw up my focus. It was horrifying.

Extreme stress and pressure is the ULTIMATE motivator, let me tell you.

[politibro44]

(bored and spotted this in on topics)

I used to get a bunch of feedback about recommending only doing the level ones and twos. Let me take a moment to point out why most questions are in the categories they are in though. Questions are easier (level 1/2) because the gap or inference is easy to see. In questions that are allegedly more difficult this is not the case.* The reason people miss level 3/4 questions more often than level 1/2 questions is not that the questions are "more difficult." But because the question stimulus is more convoluted---background information, dense scientific language, etc.---and as a result the stimulus takes more time to understand. But you shouldn't let time stand in your way, especially during drilling, because if you do understand the question stimulus you will have an idea of the gap or inference that the question stem is asking you to analyze or make. And if you make this a habit then eventually you'll have more than an idea and will literally know the logic of the correct answer before even reading the answers.

The main reason people miss questions with difficult stimuli is not because they don't know what to do** but because they skip a step. Usually the step skipped is understanding the argument before moving towards the answers. You don't need to drill 5000 questions to make the steps a pattern, that's one of the reasons why I recommend only doing the level ones and twos and some of the threes and fours. Another reason why I suggest avoiding most of the level 3's and 4's is because most students review the Cambridge packets terribly. They finish, turn to the answer sheet, cross of the ones they got wrong and then go back and make excuses: "I was between that answer and the one I choose so really it's like I got it right, oh I see it now that must have been a dumb mistake, I wasn't thinking, etc." And that's ok at the beginning, everyone does this. But you shouldn't make a pattern of it. By doing all of the level 3s and 4s you will likely reinforce these poor habits and overlook the purpose of drilling: to recognize the patterns in categories that are tested on the LSAT by applying valid reasoning to stimuli/games and each answer choice. You don't drill to see how many questions you can get right or to finish the packet. You drill to see things in the way they usually appear on the test. Doing the ones and twos and some, but not all, of the threes and fours is sufficient for this. You can and should do the level threes and fours if you are still having trouble or if you want to and I recommend checking them out, but I also suggest not doing all of them because you are more likely to review effectively if you throw a old section into a practice test.

Obviously the assumptions behind this recommendation: (1) that doing all of the questions at least once is not required for you to reach your goal, and (2) that you are not reviewing Cambridge effectively in at least some instances, could be invalid. And I hope the latter is, but based on my experience it usually is not. And for that reason I recommend saving sections from the practice tests in the thirties to throw into your practice tests---these tests will have some of the questions from the packets and you'll get to work through them in real time. But again this is just a recommendation, if you want to do what I did and hedge your bets by doing everything , then go for it. I'm just saying that you could probably achieve the same result with more time spent reviewing and less time spent taking old LSAT questions. Anyways, good luck on June, 1:00 PM administrations are incredible.

* LR is all about the gap between the premises and the conclusion or about making a valid inference based upon some set of facts, so I'm going to keep using these two words to describe the tasks presented in LR.
** Read stem, read stimulus, don't move towards answers until you understand stimulus, prephrase, eliminate answers that are irrelevant/contradictory/extreme/reversals and select answer that satisfies the question stem

TL;DR: Do some, but not all of the level 3's and 4's, unless you are having trouble with a question/game type. This is not a rule so feel free to disregard it completely, it is simply a suggestion to make your studies more efficient

Thanks for your input DD. I think when I'm starting out to drill a new question type, I will definitely be doing sections of all 1's and 2's to build a habit of the problem-solving process for that particular question type. Although they're it's similar, I noticed when going from drilling NA to Flaw and kept thinking, "OK now negate to see if it's right..." Well obviously that didn't work! I'm thinking that beginning to drill easier Flaw's will help me get in that groove.

Don't be a stranger to the thread!

[primordialnoodle]

Hi everyone,

Noah from Manhattan Prep got in touch with me to set up an online room for us to review PTs and (possibly) a forum for us to post questions we have from drilling. If you're interested, PM me your email (make sure it's connected to a Manhattan prep account) and I'll forward it to Noah.

[rebexness]

Hi everyone,

Noah from Manhattan Prep got in touch with me to set up an online room for us to review PTs and (possibly) a forum for us to post questions we have from drilling. If you're interested, PM me your email (make sure it's connected to a Manhattan prep account) and I'll forward it to Noah.

Those Manhattan guys have always been really awesome about setting these up for us.

[stef1330]

Hey err body. Checking in. How many hours are y'all averaging daily? I'm trying to hit at least 3:/

[WaltGrace83]

Did a full LR section timed, PT.41.1. I got a -3 with 1 unanswered. For #8 I got it down to two and picked the wrong one. For #16 I just had no idea what was going on. For #22 I went into the question without a solid sense of what I was looking for - I think I was crunched for time and didn't adequately think about it. For #23, the one I didn't answer, I just didn't have to come back to it because it was a parallel reasoning question.

Overall, I know that one section is not a representative sample but I felt like I did well! I am only through the first swatch of lessons in the Trainer and I feel like with more practice and more strategy, I can turn that -4 into -0 with some time to spare. Otherwise, it is much better than my -11/-14 diagnostic I took two years ago





Every little bit is progress!

[wsparker]

Checking in! After taking in Feb 2013, I liked my score, but thought I would retake anyways. Never ended up getting motivated, but after getting WLed at few t14s, I am finally committing.

Just need to make sure I follow through!

[WaltGrace83]

Checking in! After taking in Feb 2013, I liked my score, but thought I would retake anyways. Never ended up getting motivated, but after getting WLed at few t14s, I am finally committing.

Just need to make sure I follow through!

We are happy to have you here! As an experienced LSAT taker, do you have any tips from the other side?

[Shiv3rs-n-Ice]

If you have the LSAT Trainer what is/was your method to reading it. I know I saw in another thread someone said something about them going through it in a week.

[10052014]

.

[Logicgames14]

Checking in finally gonna do this. Time to kill the LSAT.
If anybody is willing to be my study buddy I am shooting for a 170

[WaltGrace83]

Checking in finally gonna do this. Time to kill the LSAT.
If anybody is willing to be my study buddy I am shooting for a 170

Too bad.....







We are all shooting for 180

[Bleach7777]

Nice little thread you got going here

Like all of you I'm studying for the LSAT.

I just started my LSAT studying with Logic Games, using Steve Schwartz's study plan.

I'm currently learning the concepts for, and drilling the different categories of games.

When I drill I take my time to read through the rules, list them, and then reread them. Then, after I'm done doing the inferences and such, I answer the questions. I go through each answer choice and give reasons for why it is incorrect, even after I found the correct answer. If I get a question wrong, I try to understand WHY I got it wrong, disprove my answer choice, and as well as understand the technique used to arrive at the right answer. If I got a question right, I still go back to make sure I fully understand why I got it right.

I'm just afraid that I'm taking too much time and it will prove to be negative down-the-line...
Is this an "okay" way of studying guys/girls?

Note: I can take the LSAT in June, but don't have to. The latest I can take it is Fall of 2015 (I'm just getting a head start).
It is my first week of studying

[WaltGrace83]

Nice little thread you got going here

Like all of you I'm studying for the LSAT.

I just started my LSAT studying with Logic Games, using Steve Schwartz's study plan.

I'm currently learning the concepts for, and drilling the different categories of games.

When I drill I take my time to read through the rules, list them, and then reread them. Then, after I'm done doing the inferences and such, I answer the questions. I go through each answer choice and give reasons for why it is incorrect, even after I found the correct answer. If I get a question wrong, I try to understand WHY I got it wrong, disprove my answer choice, and as well as understand the technique used to arrive at the right answer. If I got a question right, I still go back to make sure I fully understand why I got it right.

I'm just afraid that I'm taking too much time and it will prove to be negative down-the-line...
Is this an "okay" way of studying guys/girls?

Note: I can take the LSAT in June, but don't have to. The latest I can take it is Fall of 2015 (I'm just getting a head start).
It is my first week of studying

I would also make it a habit of developing all skills at once. Don't focus on LG on week, LR the next, RC the next, etc. These skills build off of each other. Especially in LG, you will be surprised at how these skills will leave you in the early stages if you don't continually work on them (so I have heard). I have not started my RC prep yet (I will get to that lesson in the trainer in a few weeks) but you bet your ass I am doing some games on LR focus days and doing some LR review on games focus days.

[alexrodriguez]

Reporter: So you and coach Mike Kim and JY got caught up on Saturday about drilling?

Student: If I can't drill, I can't drill man. If I'm hurt, I'm hurt. I mean ... simple as that. It ain't about that... I mean it's... It's not about that... At all. You know what I'm saying I mean... But it's...it's easy ... to, to talk about... It's easy to sum it up when you're just talking about drilling. We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the future law student, and we in here talking about drilling. I mean, listen, we're talking about drilling, not the June exam, not the June exam, not the June exam, we talking about drilling. Not the June exam. Not, not ... Not the exam that I go out there and die for and answer every question like it's my last. Not the June exam, but we're talking about drilling, man. I mean, how silly is that? ... And we talking about drilling. I know I supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example... I know that... And i'm not.. I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I do. I honestly do... But we're talking about drilling man. What are we talking about? drilling? We're talking about drilling, man. [laughter from the media crowd] We're talking about drilling. We're talking about drilling. We ain't talking about the June exam. [more laughter] We're talking about drilling, man. When you come to the testing center, and you see me answer questions, you see me get 180's don't you? You've seen me give everything I've got, right? But we're talking about drilling right now. We talking about dr... [Interrupted]

Reporter: But it's an issue that your coach continues to raise?

Student: Man look, I hear you... it's funny to me too, I mean it's strange... it's strange to me too, but we're talking about drilling man, we're not even talking about the June exam.. the actual exam, when it matters... We're talking about drilling ...

[alexrodriguez]

I just scored a 161 untimed on PT 57

I might as well give up now and accept the fact that I'm never going to law school at T14

or

I can say "Fuck that" and drill a couple thousand questions!

[WaltGrace83]

Reporter: So you and coach Mike Kim and JY got caught up on Saturday about drilling?

Student: If I can't drill, I can't drill man. If I'm hurt, I'm hurt. I mean ... simple as that. It ain't about that... I mean it's... It's not about that... At all. You know what I'm saying I mean... But it's...it's easy ... to, to talk about... It's easy to sum it up when you're just talking about drilling. We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the future law student, and we in here talking about drilling. I mean, listen, we're talking about drilling, not the June exam, not the June exam, not the June exam, we talking about drilling. Not the June exam. Not, not ... Not the exam that I go out there and die for and answer every question like it's my last. Not the June exam, but we're talking about drilling, man. I mean, how silly is that? ... And we talking about drilling. I know I supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example... I know that... And i'm not.. I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I do. I honestly do... But we're talking about drilling man. What are we talking about? drilling? We're talking about drilling, man. [laughter from the media crowd] We're talking about drilling. We're talking about drilling. We ain't talking about the June exam. [more laughter] We're talking about drilling, man. When you come to the testing center, and you see me answer questions, you see me get 180's don't you? You've seen me give everything I've got, right? But we're talking about drilling right now. We talking about dr... [Interrupted]

Reporter: But it's an issue that your coach continues to raise?

Student: Man look, I hear you... it's funny to me too, I mean it's strange... it's strange to me too, but we're talking about drilling man, we're not even talking about the June exam.. the actual exam, when it matters... We're talking about drilling ...

I lol'd.

Louie, what were you getting wrong? Let's see if we can pinpoint your weaknesses! Also, we are still VERY early in our prep, it is 5 months from today. That is roughly 150 days of studying. Don't beat yourself up.

[WaltGrace83]

Also, thought I'd share the very inspirational song that inspired my username. I listen to it every morning and think about the LSAT.

"...With the will to work hard and a library card..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQQ8tkkJRT0