The Official September 2016 Study Group - WAKE ME UP WHEN SEPTEMBER ENDS Forum

[proteinshake]

I am currently working through my prep books. I would highly suggest the Powerscore Logic Games Bible. Originally I was not able to get through all 4 games in time, nor with tremendous accuracy. I completed the book about a week and a half ago, and am now consistently getting through all 4 games while only missing a few question if any.

My main question is about logical reasoning. Is there a large consensus on whether the stimulus should be read before the questions or vice versa? Rather, is choosing which to read first a matter of preference?

I have been recording my progress using both methods, and I consistently score higher when reading the question first. Although, my prep material suggestions reading the stimulus first. I'm curious of whether reading the question first will be detrimental in the long, despite currently yielding better results.

do whatever works best for you.

[Barack O'Drama]

My worries of my medication/workout hurting my focus have dissipated. Did two 5-game packets today, went -1 on both, under 35 minutes each.

Savage! I'm glad to hear it SweetTort

How long did it take you to get that consistent and quick? Any tips? Just started going through the LG Bible to take a break from LR. I am finding speed a real issue. Sometimes I just sit there frozen, not sure what to do.

Here's a strategy someone else (maybe even in this thread) gave me, and it saved my life. 3 steps.

Step 1) Do every Cambridge Packet logic game, untimed, for accuracy. Repeat until -0.
Step 2) Repeat step one, except timed. If not -0 and under time (according to 7sage), repeat.
Step 3) Mix all logic games, staple them in packets of 5, and complete the packets in under 35 minutes.

Ok excellent! Thank you, I really prefer having a plan of attack. Should I finish the Bible before I start drilling?

[Barack O'Drama]

I am currently working through my prep books. I would highly suggest the Powerscore Logic Games Bible. Originally I was not able to get through all 4 games in time, nor with tremendous accuracy. I completed the book about a week and a half ago, and am now consistently getting through all 4 games while only missing a few question if any.

My main question is about logical reasoning. Is there a large consensus on whether the stimulus should be read before the questions or vice versa? Rather, is choosing which to read first a matter of preference?

I have been recording my progress using both methods, and I consistently score higher when reading the question first. Although, my prep material suggestions reading the stimulus first. I'm curious of whether reading the question first will be detrimental in the long, despite currently yielding better results.

do whatever works best for you.

I agree with Proteinshake that you should do whatever works best for you. The only downside I have heard is that once you read the question before the stimulus, you can never get a truly fresh perspective on the game. You might see it biased and miss something. However, I read it first because I think the risk of that happening is worth knowing what to look for so you can pre-phrase your answer.

[20170322]

My worries of my medication/workout hurting my focus have dissipated. Did two 5-game packets today, went -1 on both, under 35 minutes each.

Savage! I'm glad to hear it SweetTort

How long did it take you to get that consistent and quick? Any tips? Just started going through the LG Bible to take a break from LR. I am finding speed a real issue. Sometimes I just sit there frozen, not sure what to do.

Here's a strategy someone else (maybe even in this thread) gave me, and it saved my life. 3 steps.

Step 1) Do every Cambridge Packet logic game, untimed, for accuracy. Repeat until -0.
Step 2) Repeat step one, except timed. If not -0 and under time (according to 7sage), repeat.
Step 3) Mix all logic games, staple them in packets of 5, and complete the packets in under 35 minutes.

Ok excellent! Thank you, I really prefer having a plan of attack. Should I finish the Bible before I start drilling?

Whatever you feel is best. I think it's best to drill as much as possible, then to use guides as needed.

[Barack O'Drama]

How many hours a day and during what times is everyone studying the the LSAT? Just curious to see what everyone's routines are as far as this goes?

[34iplaw]

How many hours a day and during what times is everyone studying the the LSAT? Just curious to see what everyone's routines are as far as this goes?

I've been doing a few hours a day... basically, I try to do as much as I can... I actually fell asleep watching 7sage on games from the Cambridge Packets. I'm trying to do a set time, but, at this juncture, I'm just more focused on burning hours when I am most focused. If I am overly tired, I rather just get the sleep. I'm not going to get much of anything done this weekend which kind of really sucks. I'll try to do start what SweetTort had suggested and just working my way through the cambridge packets going for accuracy and then working time down.

For anyone who has done this, how much were you able to get your time down? I.E. at 100% accuracy, were you averaging 1.5x, 2.0x, etc. 7sage time?

I've found for most games that I can get 100% accuracy within 1.5-1.8x 7sage first time looking at it with a chance of one aberrant question throwing me for a loop.

[westtech]

I'm starting to work out twice a day, so I feel GREAT, but I'm having less time and energy to do LSAT prep. The struggle is real.

Same boat! I am trying to make regular work outs part of the test routine. However, it is making me lethargic to some extent. I also am finding certain foods and drinks are affecting how I feel. I've been drinking Soylent while studying throughout the day, which cuts down on wasted time cooking/cleaning and is easy and gives me the energy without feeling overfull and lazy. I am turning myself into a post-apocalyptic automaton for the LSAT. I think I am going to just run for my workout and then only lift on my prep day off. See how it works, and then reevaluate.

I'm determined not to give up lifting to prep for this test. I used to get up and do my workout in the morning but then after work I was literally falling asleep in front of my prep books. Since Monday I've switched my prep to the morning when I would normally be lifting and I've moved my workouts to the evenings, so far so good. Let me know what time management schemes you guys come up with.

I lift 4x a week and it's always the first thing I do about an hour and a half after I wake up. It actually gives me more energy for studying. do you make sure you eat enough?

Yeah I eat enough, and it shows...I'm kind of on that fat swole lifestyle. I started tracking every meal in myfitnesspal about 6 months ago to get an idea of what my nutrition looks like. You can't lie to yourself when you track. I'm a web developer in my day job so thats most likely what makes me tired. I have to think all day so trying to study afterwards is a nightmare.

[westtech]

How many hours a day and during what times is everyone studying the the LSAT? Just curious to see what everyone's routines are as far as this goes?

About 2.5 hours on weekdays from 7am - 9:30am. I'm planning on PT'ing Saturday mornings and taking Sunday off. Review will occur in the 12.5 hours I get in during the week. Thats the plan anyway.

[jdealla]

How many hours a day and during what times is everyone studying the the LSAT? Just curious to see what everyone's routines are as far as this goes?

Since I teach I've been off for the summer for almost two weeks, and so far I've put in 3-5 hours a day almost every day. We're going to be traveling for the next 5 weeks but I'm hoping to keep it up. Mostly I've been drilling LG by type, reading PS bibles and the Trainer, and doing some PTs with review.

[jdealla]

Yeah I eat enough, and it shows...I'm kind of on that fat swole lifestyle. I started tracking every meal in myfitnesspal about 6 months ago to get an idea of what my nutrition looks like. You can't lie to yourself when you track. I'm a web developer in my day job so thats most likely what makes me tired. I have to think all day so trying to study afterwards is a nightmare.

Just curious here. What language do u program in and why are you looking for a career change?

[Barack O'Drama]

Cool, thanks everyone. I just feel guilty if I'm ever finding myself with free time. I can't enjoy doing other things when I know damn well I should be working on logic games. I just started and I'm terribly slow, so it's stressing me out lol.
M-F I try to study 2 hours in the morning before work and 1-1.5 hours after work at night. Saturdays I drill/PT for 4 hours and Sunday I try to relax and review stuff. I am trying to get in at least 20 hours a week. I think I'm going to try to start getting up earlier and get that number up to 30 ASAP. If I can get up at 5, that leaves me with ~4 hours of study before I have to work and whatnot. Then another 1-2 hours after work will put me at a solid number.

Also, glad to see there are so many active people insofar as exercise/workout. Good stuff!

[Giro423]

June waiter here...looking for some advice. I'm planning to keep studying at least until I get my score back in case I decide I need to retake. If I scored 165+ I'll probably call it, if not I'm going to shoot for 170+ in Sept. Most of my studying for June was done almost exclusively with Manhattan material. For my "phase 2" study material I just received: LR and RC bibles, ACE the LSAT Logic Games, remaining PT's I haven't seen, and Nova's Master the LSAT. My goal is to try and fill in any gaps in understanding with some fresh material. However, I'm a little worried about different strategies overloading me and causing a score drop. I decided to skip the LG bible thinking that I don't need a foundation change here since Manhattan's techniques seem to work pretty well for me, so I got ACE and Nova based on TLS1776' recommendation to try and strengthen my hypo approach. I plan on using 7Sage's LG videos too. I hear a lot about the LSAT trainer and the Cambridge packets as well. Thoughts? Thanks guys!

[Rupert Pupkin]

June waiter here...looking for some advice. I'm planning to keep studying at least until I get my score back in case I decide I need to retake. If I scored 165+ I'll probably call it, if not I'm going to shoot for 170+ in Sept. Most of my studying for June was done almost exclusively with Manhattan material. For my "phase 2" study material I just received: LR and RC bibles, ACE the LSAT Logic Games, remaining PT's I haven't seen, and Nova's Master the LSAT. My goal is to try and fill in any gaps in understanding with some fresh material. However, I'm a little worried about different strategies overloading me and causing a score drop. I decided to skip the LG bible thinking that I don't need a foundation change here since Manhattan's techniques seem to work pretty well for me, so I got ACE and Nova based on TLS1776' recommendation to try and strengthen my hypo approach. I plan on using 7Sage's LG videos too. I hear a lot about the LSAT trainer and the Cambridge packets as well. Thoughts? Thanks guys!

I think you ultimately can reach a point of wasting time on reading too many different prep books, but I found the Bibles and Manhattan to be very complimentary. I don;t think in your situation and how you described what you want to do that you would you reach that point. Its like studying for a most tests where reading some additional books that are complimentary to the main textbook are very helpful. It seems as though the top Prep companies like the ones you mentioned aren't just about teaching little shortcuts and tricks, but rather systematic approaches and they train you to think a certain way. Because of this, I don't think reviewing a new book would hurt you, it would only help. You might find the way that the bible (for example) explained something slightly clearer to you or you like one of the PS approaches better. However, if your current approach is working then don't waste your time and instead, Drill/PT away.

I am currently using the Bibles and then using Manhattan as complimentary (you would be doing the opposite it sounds like). Later in prep, I may look to adding some of the TLS1776 book recommendations that you mentioned if I feel that its necessary. Many posters in here have discussed the LSAT trainer, which is apparently beneficial, but they would be better to give you a review than that than I.

The cambridge packets are extremely helpful from what I hear, but unfortunately they aren't available. I wanted to buy them for my prep, but LSAC banned Cambridge from making them anymore. A supplementary product is Powerscore's Game Type and Question TYpe books - this is what I am using and its great. They are definitely worth the investment for drilling.

Best of Luck! Hopefully you got a score you are satisfied with on the June test though!

[Alexandros]

Signing on for September. Just went -7 in LG so hopefully this will provide some (evidently much-needed) motivation.
Wishing you all the best!

[BlackCanary]

How many hours a day and during what times is everyone studying the the LSAT? Just curious to see what everyone's routines are as far as this goes?

Probably around 3-4. Approximately two in the morning and then a bit more in the afternoon while at work (if the kids are quiet enough or there aren't that many) and then at someone's house while I'm waiting to break fast (again, depending on what's going on around me).

Yeah I eat enough, and it shows...I'm kind of on that fat swole lifestyle. I started tracking every meal in myfitnesspal about 6 months ago to get an idea of what my nutrition looks like. You can't lie to yourself when you track. I'm a web developer in my day job so thats most likely what makes me tired. I have to think all day so trying to study afterwards is a nightmare.

I recently started tracking everything using myfitnesspal.
Sadly, my workouts have suffered because it's been 106-108 degrees all week and I have very little desire to do anything when it's that hot.

[westtech]

Yeah I eat enough, and it shows...I'm kind of on that fat swole lifestyle. I started tracking every meal in myfitnesspal about 6 months ago to get an idea of what my nutrition looks like. You can't lie to yourself when you track. I'm a web developer in my day job so thats most likely what makes me tired. I have to think all day so trying to study afterwards is a nightmare.

Just curious here. What language do u program in and why are you looking for a career change?

Right now I primarily write Ruby and Javascript but I've worked in the .NET stack and a bit with Python. It really depends on the task. I'm not 100% sold on the career change. I want to get a high LSAT score and see what kind of offers I get. I probably won't go to law school unless it's free to be honest. Law and Software Engineering are both good careers, but both have pros and cons (e.g. Law has a very high barrier to entry due to an oversupply of lawyers but lacks the ageism that is present in IT). Thats just one example but there are far more.

[studyingeveryday]

So if I've already studied for almost a year on the LSAT and I'm already right around a 160 score, should I stick to the LSAT Trainer to give me a schedule and structure, and then use the Manhattan books to increase my score? If powerscore is more about the fundamentals, should I not use that one at all?

EDIT: I studied using only Kaplan my first time!

I think that depends... do you believe you have a solid grasp of the fundamentals? I think a good assessment of that would be to see how well you can do on games and such without major time restraints [within reason...maybe 20ish min per game tops...maybe more if it's really convoluted/challenging]. I assume given a year of prep that you probably do have a solid grasp of the fundamentals.

I will say this about the LSAT Trainer vs. PowerScore in regards to Logic Games. I found myself to be *much* more comfortable with logic games after the bible than I was after finishing the games sections in the trainer. It could be that the reverse would be true if I read them in reverse order and that the PowerScore helped reinforce what I already learned from the LSAT Trainer. In my mind, the LSAT Trainer seems to be a *really* good introductory book. I imagine it can be an effective book on its own if combined with all of the recommended drilling etc. in the book.

Find out what you are struggling with and focus on that while periodically reviewing/addressing the other sections so that your skills do not atrophy IMO.

Thanks for responding! I'm pretty okay at LG and can solve games within 5-9 minutes depending on the game. What I really struggle with is RC, so I might just get PowerScore for RC then!

[20170322]

Still need to do a post-mortem on my test from this past Friday. I try to type up explanations for every LR I miss, so it's going to be a long process.

[studyingeveryday]

I am currently working through my prep books. I would highly suggest the Powerscore Logic Games Bible. Originally I was not able to get through all 4 games in time, nor with tremendous accuracy. I completed the book about a week and a half ago, and am now consistently getting through all 4 games while only missing a few question if any.

My main question is about logical reasoning. Is there a large consensus on whether the stimulus should be read before the questions or vice versa? Rather, is choosing which to read first a matter of preference?

I have been recording my progress using both methods, and I consistently score higher when reading the question first. Although, my prep material suggestions reading the stimulus first. I'm curious of whether reading the question first will be detrimental in the long, despite currently yielding better results.

I also read the question first before the stimulus so I know what I'm looking for. My prep course (Kaplan) trained me that way so I never thought about doing it the other way around. But definitely do what helps you the most in answering the questions accurately and quickly!

[CoGar]

This may be a dumb question but what are you referring to when you mention "drilling"? Does this just entail getting a ton of practice problems with similar structures and doing them over and over? The same problems or tons of different one? If its the same how do you keep yourself from going straight to the answer you already know to be correct? Also are you looking up explanations for each question or just checking right from wrong.
I an still absorbing basic strategy at this point but hope to begin "drilling" soon
Also (not to throw too much info in here), what are the best sources for drilling? Ive seen here Cambridge packets are popular, but can be expensive.

Thanks all for the help!

[westtech]

This may be a dumb question but what are you referring to when you mention "drilling"? Does this just entail getting a ton of practice problems with similar structures and doing them over and over? The same problems or tons of different one? If its the same how do you keep yourself from going straight to the answer you already know to be correct? Also are you looking up explanations for each question or just checking right from wrong.
I an still absorbing basic strategy at this point but hope to begin "drilling" soon
Also (not to throw too much info in here), what are the best sources for drilling? Ive seen here Cambridge packets are popular, but can be expensive.

Thanks all for the help!

Drilling is simply doing a set of LR questions, games or passages of a similar type to reinforce strategies and build accuracy. They don't sell the Campbridge packets in pdf anymore as far as I know. Ideally you should try to write your own explanations for the questions that you get wrong so you can understand (in your own words) how to arrive at the correct answer, then reference other peoples explanations to understand even better. The forums on manhattan lsats website for LR questions are very good.

Here is an example of an explanation I wrote for a question I got wrong. http://lranswers.com/?p=340.
I use a simple template for most of my explanations.

Notate the Support and the Conclusion.
List the task of the question.
Evaluate the Flaw if the question is in the assumption family.
List some likely characteristics of a the correct answer.
Evaluate each answer choice. (Both in terms of why it is either right or wrong and what the test writers might be thinking when they write each answer choice. )
Describe what went wrong in my own process that may have lead me to choosing the wrong answer.

[Barack O'Drama]

This may be a dumb question but what are you referring to when you mention "drilling"? Does this just entail getting a ton of practice problems with similar structures and doing them over and over? The same problems or tons of different one? If its the same how do you keep yourself from going straight to the answer you already know to be correct? Also are you looking up explanations for each question or just checking right from wrong.
I an still absorbing basic strategy at this point but hope to begin "drilling" soon
Also (not to throw too much info in here), what are the best sources for drilling? Ive seen here Cambridge packets are popular, but can be expensive.

Thanks all for the help!

It looks like you go it! Drilling is doing a bunch of problems for a section, often, problems of the same type. i.e., doing 25 must be true questions. They can be timed or untimed depending on what stage you're in.

On logic games it is not uncommon to do the same ones over and over until you are are -0 and under time. At this point, it is more about memorizing inferences, getting the process down cold, and honing in on accuracy and time skills. So sometimes i you know an answer, it is more reproducing the fastest and most accurate way to get there.

The best sources for drilling: I am a fan of the Cambridge packets. Too bad you LSAC stopped their production. A lot of people on here also love the Powerscore drill by types, so I would go with those if you don't have access to the Cambridge.

ETA: westech explained that a lot better. Also, Manhattan's forum for LR is continuing to be a great help for questions I need explanations on!

[FischerTAH]

In on this.

Was registered for the JUN test but life had different plans, ended up missing the test. Worked through the LSAT trainer from Mid JAN to mid JUL. Original diag score was ~150, June 2007 with little prep and under timed conditions. Subscribed to 7Sage basic two days ago, will work through that over next two weeks and then drill until test day.

Contemplating picking up the PS bibles, LR and LG. Whats the recommendation with 7Sage, PS, and LSAT Trainer?

[etramak]

I am currently working through my prep books. I would highly suggest the Powerscore Logic Games Bible. Originally I was not able to get through all 4 games in time, nor with tremendous accuracy. I completed the book about a week and a half ago, and am now consistently getting through all 4 games while only missing a few question if any.

My main question is about logical reasoning. Is there a large consensus on whether the stimulus should be read before the questions or vice versa? Rather, is choosing which to read first a matter of preference?

I have been recording my progress using both methods, and I consistently score higher when reading the question first. Although, my prep material suggestions reading the stimulus first. I'm curious of whether reading the question first will be detrimental in the long, despite currently yielding better results.

do whatever works best for you.

Some questions, especially main conclusion and role in the argument, reading the question before the stimulus can save you a whole minute. I personally don't think prephrasing the more difficult strengthening/weakining and at times paradox reconciliation questions helps at all. The difficulty in the hardest questions often comes from the fact that the answer was written by a very creative testwriter.

[MAPP]

My worries of my medication/workout hurting my focus have dissipated. Did two 5-game packets today, went -1 on both, under 35 minutes each.

Savage! I'm glad to hear it SweetTort

How long did it take you to get that consistent and quick? Any tips? Just started going through the LG Bible to take a break from LR. I am finding speed a real issue. Sometimes I just sit there frozen, not sure what to do.

Here's a strategy someone else (maybe even in this thread) gave me, and it saved my life. 3 steps.

Step 1) Do every Cambridge Packet logic game, untimed, for accuracy. Repeat until -0.
Step 2) Repeat step one, except timed. If not -0 and under time (according to 7sage), repeat.
Step 3) Mix all logic games, staple them in packets of 5, and complete the packets in under 35 minutes.

Ok excellent! Thank you, I really prefer having a plan of attack. Should I finish the Bible before I start drilling?

Whatever you feel is best. I think it's best to drill as much as possible, then to use guides as needed.

Are you using 7sage to review games after you drill them?