-11 Curve, September 2017 Waiter's Thread Forum

[littlewing67]

.

[clemsonbill]

Shocking number of vegans here. I've also never really had red meat (like a couple times maybe), I was raised pescatarian and became vegetarian at 12, vegan at 20.

Damn! Can we start a club or something? I actually don't have any vegan friends IRL. Hoping I meet some in law school.

I was actually anti-vegetarian/anti-vegan and thought they were annoying af and I loved meat, cheese, etc...then I worked rescuing animals and I had to save too many animals that died/became ill because of human impact on the earth and I became so nauseated with my cognitive dissonance. Once you see baby animals die with your own eyes and you can't save them, shit changes for you. I never want to harm another animal in my life.

Not a vegan, but I can respect this reasoning. I'm from small town, USA where a lot of people raise their own animals to eat/milk and I remember how shocking it was to see large, industrialized farms that show no care or compassion to their animals.

[allezallez21]

New poll idea... which of the T14 are you not applying to?

Cornell.

[littlewing67]

.

[twiix]

the reason why so many people are upset about the kneeling is not because said people are standing up for their rights and protesting, but because they took it to the extreme and are disrespecting the most simplest aspect of unity that illustrates a countries sovereignty. It can be compared to the burning of the american flag. I think instead of disrespecting the premise of our country as a whole the people should just be protesting trump and what he stands for. Although this is most definitely their intention, i dont think they realize their intended effect is not what is being experienced. It would be like doing something to the bible instead of protesting or denouncing a rogue priest... I really loved seeing the cowboys all kneel BEFORE the national anthem and resume & pay respects to our country. That was cool to see Jerry Jones validate that there are issues we need to unify and handle, but not at the cost of pissing on what unifies us already

(edited to fix weird quote brackets)
...Except this protest pre-dates Trump and is more about our country as a whole than just its president. These protests began as a response to systemic racism and police brutality. To use your Bible metaphor, that'd be like destroying a bible because some of its major values are systemically making your life more difficult or that part of the bible makes you more likely to die at the hands of a public servant. (That's a sloppy analogy, but you get what I'm saying.)

RE: the argument that it's like burning a flag... After Obama's re-election, there were conservative groups that hung the flag upside down. I'd consider that a more disrespectful treatment of the flag. And it's kind of ridiculous that we're playing the national anthem before domestic sporting events anyway. But that part's just my opinion. We don't play the anthem before plays, movies, concerts, mega-church sermons, or other large displays of people doing their job. Why sports? But that's a topic for another day!

Yeah I agree with that as well.. It is by no means a one-sided issue. I think both actions are disrespectful

So to your first point - how is kneeling disrespecting the flag or anything that it stands for? If anything, I'd argue they are still honoring the values of this country, albeit in a different way that is known to have a second meaning. If they were walking around the side lines talking and ignoring the anthem, then I'd agree.. but they make it known that they are still honoring the anthem and the flag.

If you look up the rules and etiquette of our flag, you won't find anywhere in there that you have to stand during the anthem. I don't think kneeling is offensive besides those who made it offensive after all the outrage.

The others have hit on the other side of the argument quite well, so we don't need to beat a dead horse. But I feel like in a world where we frequently have been seeing protests turn violent that claim they are fighting for equality, I'd argue that this is high and away the most productive and respectful protest that has occurred in awhile. Nobody is harmed, and their message is on the news every day getting discussion started. I have no issues.

[OldSpeedoGuy]

The protests began as a response to perceived systemic racism and (systemic) police brutality. Displaying the flag upside down is perhaps hyperbolic, but also a proper way of signaling distress (according to the flag code).

Not only does the protest pre-date Trump, but so does the politicization of sports by a president. I remember when a certain administration sued a team over their name.

Bitzer Vatz.

What of it?

[twiix]

New poll idea... which of the T14 are you not applying to?

HYS... I hear they don't look on 3.45 GPAs too fondly. (My chances at CC are also near 0 but probably not quite 0)

Also splitter, although way more extreme than you.

HYSCCN, out.
P, out.
Berk, out.

Leaves me with V,M,D,NU,UT.

Gonna be a grim few months

I'm probably debt averse enough that I'll end up at WUSTL (or maybe Vanderbilt) but I'd love a higher ranked school to surprise me with $.

damn we're twins. WUSTL is my realistic school at this point, despite desperately wanting to end up Chicago. I'm also gonna apply to most of the schools between 15 and 20 as well, just for scholarships and negotiation purposes. Vandy would be a dope school to attend just because of it being in Nashville - that's gotta be the best night life around. We shall see though. I'm still praying to the LSAT gods for a miracle score and some miracle money to NU.

[Walliums]

Barry my poll idea is creating some hot posts so you should post it...

[heyduchess]

Barry my poll idea is creating some hot posts so you should post it...

After Barry's drunk poll that one time, I always just assume Barry is drunk when he isn't responding. Huge fan, Barry. Huge fan.

[Barry grandpapy]

Barry my poll idea is creating some hot posts so you should post it...

After Barry's drunk poll that one time, I always just assume Barry is drunk when he isn't responding. Huge fan, Barry. Huge fan.

What was it? I'll update after I get back from the gym with my gf

[DaydreamNation]

Barry my poll idea is creating some hot posts so you should post it...

After Barry's drunk poll that one time, I always just assume Barry is drunk when he isn't responding. Huge fan, Barry. Huge fan.

What was it? I'll update after I get back from the gym with my gf

It was which of the t14 are you not applying to and I second walliums' suggestion

[Walliums]

Barry my poll idea is creating some hot posts so you should post it...

After Barry's drunk poll that one time, I always just assume Barry is drunk when he isn't responding. Huge fan, Barry. Huge fan.

What was it? I'll update after I get back from the gym with my gf

Oooo gym date!

I was thinking a multi-select poll of which T14 people are not applying to.

[Jack_Kelly]

New poll idea... which of the T14 are you not applying to?

HYS... I hear they don't look on 3.45 GPAs too fondly. (My chances at CC are also near 0 but probably not quite 0)

Also splitter, although way more extreme than you.

HYSCCN, out.
P, out.
Berk, out.

Leaves me with V,M,D,NU,UT.

Gonna be a grim few months

I'm probably debt averse enough that I'll end up at WUSTL (or maybe Vanderbilt) but I'd love a higher ranked school to surprise me with $.

damn we're twins. WUSTL is my realistic school at this point, despite desperately wanting to end up Chicago. I'm also gonna apply to most of the schools between 15 and 20 as well, just for scholarships and negotiation purposes. Vandy would be a dope school to attend just because of it being in Nashville - that's gotta be the best night life around. We shall see though. I'm still praying to the LSAT gods for a miracle score and some miracle money to NU.

Since getting the UCLA fee waiver my plan is every school 4-18 plus a BU, W&L, W&M, UNC

[DaydreamNation]

Walliums the only problem with your poll idea is that it opens the t13/t14 can of worms haha

[Walliums]

Walliums the only problem with your poll idea is that it opens the t13/t14 can of worms haha

Haha, and the elitism over changing it from the T14 to T13.

Maybe instead it could be the T20 although I'm not sure what the max number of poll options are

[littlelibertine]

New poll idea... which of the T14 are you not applying to?

I'm not applying to HYS (low likelihood of admission and don't want to waste my money), Chicago (same), or Berkeley (a North Carolina 8 is a California 4). Everywhere else, I'm at least applying for scholarship leverage. My first choice is NYU, and I've got a pretty good shot of getting in with an LSAT of 172 or above, but I might retake in December for a 174; the raw gains on admissions percentage are enough to make it worthwhile.

[Pozzo]

New poll idea... which of the T14 are you not applying to?

[...] a North Carolina 8 is a California 4 [...]

Dying.

[181plz]

Can someone define democratic socialist for me?

Not really. The "Nordic Model" sense it's used in the US is pretty much wrong, but it's hard to tell who means it that way vs the anti-capitalist Allende/Chavez/Debs way.

I take it as people enchanted by Bernie Sanders, but Sanders has been inconsistent. Historically, he's as red as they come, but he conveniently (and deceptively) points to Scandinavian countries as exemplars.

Red as they come? So Bernie = Mao? You're being ridiculous... Bernie isn't red. He's not even a true socialist. He doesn't want to overthrow capitalism or destroy the concept of private wealth; Bernie advocates for more governmental services with higher taxation, but that doesn't make him "red." As stated earlier, that doesn't even make him a socialist.

[Walliums]

I'd particularly enjoy hearing from the three people who voted they were members of the alt-right/nationalists. Come on now, don't be shy

[wmbuff]

Ohhh I think I saw in the Berkeley thread that you're a vegan!! So am I #staywoke

So how did you become a vegan? Since you've never had red meat, did you just not like it when you were little or your parents introduced you?

YESSS! I became a vegetarian when I was five. My parents are vegetarian. I went vegan (honestly) to lose weight for Burning Man. Then, I learned more about the dairy industry and I just felt generally better without dairy in my life, so it stuck!

Walliums: LOLz. That's some Margaret Atwood Oryx & Crake nonsense. I don't know about that. I'm not a huge fan of the Impossible Burger. I like Beyond Burgers, but the Impossible Burger really freaks me out. There's a point where you can no longer think "This is milk." and instead are like "This is white liquid from inside cow." I think I'm at that point for all meat and dairy, so getting too close to the real deal spooks me a little.

Just so no one thinks everyone around here bounces off the idea of meat, I actually raise my own for personal consumption and sale. But that experience has only reinforced the notion that if you're not fully comfortable with what your food is, you shouldn't eat it. I'm a lot more sympathetic to the vegans than the grocery store carnivores.

[OldSpeedoGuy]

Can someone define democratic socialist for me?

Not really. The "Nordic Model" sense it's used in the US is pretty much wrong, but it's hard to tell who means it that way vs the anti-capitalist Allende/Chavez/Debs way.

I take it as people enchanted by Bernie Sanders, but Sanders has been inconsistent. Historically, he's as red as they come, but he conveniently (and deceptively) points to Scandinavian countries as exemplars.

Red as they come? So Bernie = Mao? You're being ridiculous... Bernie isn't red. He's not even a true socialist. He doesn't want to overthrow capitalism or destroy the concept of private wealth; Bernie advocates for more governmental services with higher taxation, but that doesn't make him "red." As stated earlier, that doesn't even make him a socialist.

He has historically flirted with and been involved in groups propping up despots from Stalin to Chavez. He has openly opposed free enterprise and capitalism. He tried to moderate that while running as a Democrat, but had the occasional slip like, "You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

[OldSpeedoGuy]

I'd particularly enjoy hearing from the three people who voted they were members of the alt-right/nationalists. Come on now, don't be shy

Same, right after hearing from the four people who voted "Marxist."

[181plz]

Can someone define democratic socialist for me?

Not really. The "Nordic Model" sense it's used in the US is pretty much wrong, but it's hard to tell who means it that way vs the anti-capitalist Allende/Chavez/Debs way.

I take it as people enchanted by Bernie Sanders, but Sanders has been inconsistent. Historically, he's as red as they come, but he conveniently (and deceptively) points to Scandinavian countries as exemplars.

Red as they come? So Bernie = Mao? You're being ridiculous... Bernie isn't red. He's not even a true socialist. He doesn't want to overthrow capitalism or destroy the concept of private wealth; Bernie advocates for more governmental services with higher taxation, but that doesn't make him "red." As stated earlier, that doesn't even make him a socialist.

He has historically flirted with and been involved in groups propping up despots from Stalin to Chavez. He has openly opposed free enterprise and capitalism. He tried to moderate that while running as a Democrat, but had the occasional slip like, "You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

Bernie was 12 when Stalin died. I don't know what group you think he was in that supported Stalin.

[OldSpeedoGuy]

Can someone define democratic socialist for me?

Not really. The "Nordic Model" sense it's used in the US is pretty much wrong, but it's hard to tell who means it that way vs the anti-capitalist Allende/Chavez/Debs way.

I take it as people enchanted by Bernie Sanders, but Sanders has been inconsistent. Historically, he's as red as they come, but he conveniently (and deceptively) points to Scandinavian countries as exemplars.

Red as they come? So Bernie = Mao? You're being ridiculous... Bernie isn't red. He's not even a true socialist. He doesn't want to overthrow capitalism or destroy the concept of private wealth; Bernie advocates for more governmental services with higher taxation, but that doesn't make him "red." As stated earlier, that doesn't even make him a socialist.

He has historically flirted with and been involved in groups propping up despots from Stalin to Chavez. He has openly opposed free enterprise and capitalism. He tried to moderate that while running as a Democrat, but had the occasional slip like, "You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

Bernie was 12 when Stalin died. I don't know what group you think he was in that supported Stalin.

Sha'ar Ha'amakim. If that's not enough, there's his praise of the Castro regime in the 80's, flying a Soviet flag in his office, and his asinine claim from 2011 that the American dream was more apt to be realized in Venezuela.

[heyduchess]

Ohhh I think I saw in the Berkeley thread that you're a vegan!! So am I #staywoke

So how did you become a vegan? Since you've never had red meat, did you just not like it when you were little or your parents introduced you?

YESSS! I became a vegetarian when I was five. My parents are vegetarian. I went vegan (honestly) to lose weight for Burning Man. Then, I learned more about the dairy industry and I just felt generally better without dairy in my life, so it stuck!

Walliums: LOLz. That's some Margaret Atwood Oryx & Crake nonsense. I don't know about that. I'm not a huge fan of the Impossible Burger. I like Beyond Burgers, but the Impossible Burger really freaks me out. There's a point where you can no longer think "This is milk." and instead are like "This is white liquid from inside cow." I think I'm at that point for all meat and dairy, so getting too close to the real deal spooks me a little.

Just so no one thinks everyone around here bounces off the idea of meat, I actually raise my own for personal consumption and sale. But that experience has only reinforced the notion that if you're not fully comfortable with what your food is, you shouldn't eat it. I'm a lot more sympathetic to the vegans than the grocery store carnivores.

Likewise. I'm equally sympathetic to people who hunt and use every part of the animal or put in the labor to raise the food they consume. I think the awareness and care are both important!