The Official September 2014 Study Group Forum

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:01 pm

A.Taarabt7 wrote:Hi Everyone,

I just had a quick question regarding two question types. If you all or one of you all could help, I would greatly appreciate it. Now my currently understanding when approaching question stems such as " which of the following principles can most clearly be said to underlie authors argument" and " which of the following principles most conforms to the argument/statements above if true " is to typically treat the former as a Necessary assumption and the latter as a Must be True.

Is this correct? or do you guys treat the former as a Must be True and the latter as a parallel question? I don't use Manhattans terminology as principle support/example.

Thanks!

On the first one "which of the following principles most conforms to the argument above", I don't think of sufficiency or necessity. I'm just looking for a principle that underlies the argument. I try to prephrase as much as possible, and if there's two contenders in the answer choices, I compare them to the stimulus.

I guess I treat the second type as a must be true, in a way, but I don't really think of it that way. I just prephrase the principle in as concise terms as possible and then see which answer choices show that principle.

I would like to hear other people's responses to this great question.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:20 am

Post removed.

Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:28 am

sashafierce wrote:
Toby Ziegler wrote:I've been on a 10-day sabbatical, as it were. My wife had our second child and we've been recalibrating how we operate. Getting back at it tomorrow morning.
Congratulations

Boy or girl (if you don't mind me asking)

Hey Sasha! No not at all. We had a little girl! Our 18 month old is a boy -- so my wife was pretty excited to fill the house with pink. Haha

I am trying to get through the necessary assumption packet today. Starting on #124. I am planning on putting in 2x the hours this week and next and hopefully get caught up. Plan to take one of the superprep PT's this Saturday.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:00 am

mornincounselor wrote:Well, I graded pt 53 today.

Overall: 162. My best initial score yet. But still far from my goals.

LR 1: -4
LG: -2
LR 2: -5
RC: -10

I consider the overall score a bad sign, but there's some good things too. Of the types of LR questions I have drilled (Flaws, RA, NA, Strengthen, MSS) I only missed two questions. The other missed LR consisted of: 2 Main Point 2 Parallel Flaw and 2 Resolve and 1 Misc. I will probably tackle main point LR next.

The LG work I have been doing is well-reflected in this score. Or, perhaps, this was just a super easy LG exam.

RC felt super hard as I was doing it. It is the area I have not focused on yet. But, today I plan on ordering the Manhattan RC 4th Edition and starting to do a few passages every night before bed.

Great work! You have improved significantly! Keep it up! I hope to join you in the 160 plus club after my next PT.

Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:15 am

Is it credited to blind review LG after a PT? It seems that LG are so systematic that blind review might not be as effective as it is with the other 2 section types? Let me know what you guys are doing, or what works best.

sashafierce · Post by **sashafierce** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:31 am

Toby Ziegler wrote:Hey Sasha! No not at all. We had a little girl! Our 18 month old is a boy -- so my wife was pretty excited to fill the house with pink. Haha

Niceeeeeee

Louis1127 wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:Well, I graded pt 53 today.

Overall: 162. My best initial score yet. But still far from my goals.

LR 1: -4
LG: -2
LR 2: -5
RC: -10

I consider the overall score a bad sign, but there's some good things too. Of the types of LR questions I have drilled (Flaws, RA, NA, Strengthen, MSS) I only missed two questions. The other missed LR consisted of: 2 Main Point 2 Parallel Flaw and 2 Resolve and 1 Misc. I will probably tackle main point LR next.

The LG work I have been doing is well-reflected in this score. Or, perhaps, this was just a super easy LG exam.

RC felt super hard as I was doing it. It is the area I have not focused on yet. But, today I plan on ordering the Manhattan RC 4th Edition and starting to do a few passages every night before bed.
Great work! You have improved significantly! Keep it up! I hope to join you in the 160 plus club after my next PT.

Nice work! Has anyone created a PT schedule? I want to see if I can sync mines with the group so we can at least be on the same page/group review (every now and again

)

Toby Ziegler wrote:Is it credited to blind review LG after a PT? It seems that LG are so systematic that blind review might not be as effective as it is with the other 2 section types? Let me know what you guys are doing, or what works best.

I blind review (repeat un timed) only the games that I struggled with before looking at the answer sheet/scoring.

sashafierce · Post by **sashafierce** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:39 am

h3jk5h wrote:
sashafierce wrote:One more thing, a friend of my suggested that maybe I should try leaving the house and going somewhere public to study like the library or a nearby college. What do you full time people think?

Maybe my lack of motivation maybe a simple case of "inside blues" I recently moved into a new apt/neighborhood and I basically don't ever go outside. Studying at home is so convenient though...sigh decisions decisions decisions

I find studying at home to be more demotivating than in a library setting, although I'm usually alone during the day. There are more distractions at home (computer, TV, etc..), whereas in the library you are surrounded by people who are also studying; and if there are external distractions in the library (i.e. kids talking), I find that an excellent opportunity to practice concentration skills.

There isn't any public libraries near where I live and the UNiversity library is for students only so I am trying the coffee shop on campus, its kinda busy but I am getting some work done, today is my first day so I will see how it goes. Thanks for the advice

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:45 am

Post removed.

cavalier2015 · Post by **cavalier2015** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:58 pm

took friday-sunday off for no reason..

feel guilty as shit and will use this week to move further in my progress.

feeling good about RC, generally going -4/-5 combined on 4 passages from the cambridge packets.
only looking over weaken and necessary assumptions this week.
moving through advanced linear games (complex ordering).
plan to be taking PTs every other day starting mid july. should be ample amount of time to go through every PT published as well as review them on the off day in between.

edit: took off to watch the world cup hah. die mannschaft!

vracovino · Post by **vracovino** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:55 pm

Checking in after a week of vacation. Been back at it since Wednesday. Reading Comprehension continues to irritate me. I'm unable to find a method that feels completely comfortable and my scores are all over the place.

Logic Reasoning feels really good for me right now, to my own surprise. I'm taking my time with the drills and really focusing on the questions. Drilled two packets of mixed difficulty Principle (Identify) and got zero wrong! Feels good to see some progress, but are these questions considered easier than most?

With the logic games, I've got a handle on almost all of the basic linear balanced/unbalanced games. I'm working through the Advanced Linear packet. Accuracy has improved substantially since I started but I'm struggling with the timing on Advanced Games. hopefully that will come with practice?

Calbears123 · Post by **Calbears123** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:57 pm

Any June retakes started studying? I'm not going to start until after July 4th. I just need a 167 for a solid shot at USC or UCLA which are my two target schools, but I'll retake anything below a 170 (stupid game 4) just for that chance to go back to Berkeley or any top 6

ricekrispies · Post by **ricekrispies** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:05 pm

mornincounselor wrote:Yeah, in regards to picking a time to take the best it's best to aim for June or September, if you plan on applying the same year as when you take the test, as these will give you adequate time to apply towards the start of the cycle where a December administration might limit your potential choices and/or scholarship opportunities.

I was planning on attending in Fall 2015. Would you recommend I sign up for the September test then?

A.Taarabt7 · Post by **A.Taarabt7** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:59 pm

Louis1127 wrote:
A.Taarabt7 wrote:Hi Everyone,

I just had a quick question regarding two question types. If you all or one of you all could help, I would greatly appreciate it. Now my current understanding when approaching question stems such as " which of the following principles can most clearly be said to underlie authors argument" and " which of the following principles most conforms to the argument/statements above if true " is to typically treat the former as a Necessary assumption and the latter as a Must be True.

Is this correct? or do you guys treat the former as a Must be True and the latter as a parallel question? I don't use Manhattans terminology as principle support/example.

Thanks!
On the first one "which of the following principles most conforms to the argument above", I don't think of sufficiency or necessity. I'm just looking for a principle that underlies the argument. I try to prephrase as much as possible, and if there's two contenders in the answer choices, I compare them to the stimulus.

I guess I treat the second type as a must be true, in a way, but I don't really think of it that way. I just prephrase the principle in as concise terms as possible and then see which answer choices show that principle.

I would like to hear other people's responses to this great question.

ahh i c. Thanks for the answer. Appreciate it a lot.

akechi · Post by **akechi** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:49 am

Calbears123 wrote:Any June retakes started studying? I'm not going to start until after July 4th. I just need a 167 for a solid shot at USC or UCLA which are my two target schools, but I'll retake anything below a 170 (stupid game 4) just for that chance to go back to Berkeley or any top 6

I would hardly call it studying, but I have been running through some logic games in my spare time. Haven't looked at a LR stim or RC passage since the 9th.

churrochi · Post by **churrochi** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:19 am

I've been using 7Sage for any LG questions that baffle me, and I can figure out RC errors on my own for the most part, but what do you guys use for LR?

vracovino · Post by **vracovino** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:22 am

churrochi wrote:I've been using 7Sage for any LG questions that baffle me, and I can figure out RC errors on my own for the most part, but what do you guys use for LR?

http://www.manhattanlsat.com/blog/2010/ ... lanations/

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:48 am

Post removed.

thequigley · Post by **thequigley** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:00 pm

Checking In. Perhaps a bit late, but a prep test a day will keep the stress away.

thequigley · Post by **thequigley** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:03 pm

ricekrispies wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:Yeah, in regards to picking a time to take the best it's best to aim for June or September, if you plan on applying the same year as when you take the test, as these will give you adequate time to apply towards the start of the cycle where a December administration might limit your potential choices and/or scholarship opportunities.
I was planning on attending in Fall 2015. Would you recommend I sign up for the September test then?

The answer is it depends. You didn't think you'd be getting away that easy did you? I'm in the same boat. I just recently started studying, but will be taking the Sept 27 exam. If you mess up big time, it gives you December, too.

h3jk5h · Post by **h3jk5h** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:58 pm

mornincounselor wrote:Just went -3 on a RC Section (Preptest 5) !!!!

For LR question explanations: check out the Manhattan forums for LR

I would recommend beginning to prep as soon as possible in preparation for the September exam. It's better to plan for September and possibly have to put it off to December than to prepare for December and have no backup plan.

What was the difference between your approach to this section to the one you got -10, if I could ask?

cavalier2015 · Post by **cavalier2015** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:14 pm

i've been drilling cambridge RC packets in passages of 4 (so i can simulate test day conditions) and am averaging about a -3 and take about 36-37 minutes to finish. while i know that's not within the time constraints, i hope by september to have it down to -1/-2 in 35 mins.

i've read the LSAT trainer RC sections and think it does a great job at helping you deal with the questions but wasn't that helpful to me with the passages. it recommends reading the passage for 2-3 minutes. i tried it and failed miserably. i've been able consistently go -3 on the RC sections because i spend more time with the passage.

things i take note of:
author's point of view anytime it's present (annotated by an 'A')
main point of each passage
multiple view points
terms
why each passage is written/its function in relation to the main point of the author
concentrate more on the last paragraph

i think key for me is that after reading a passage, i spend about 30secs-1min looking over the paragraph. i look over the paragraphs and try to build a mental map of everything. i tried to summarize each paragraph in 1 sentence. at the end of this 1 min, i am able to almost "narrate" the passage with respects to main points, structures, and why things are there.

additional tip: if you come across an example that you have no fucking idea what it is saying, don't panic. just ask yourself "why" is this here. don't ask "what is in here". the questions won't ask you about the content but will ask something along the lines of "what's it purpose" in relation to the passage as a whole or that paragraph.

i am no expert in RC, but i have found the above approach helpful in getting -3 wrong.

in doing the above things, the question become REALLY easy. its painfully obvious why wrong answers are wrong.

i am consistently getting the questions that ask "this reasoning/this example is most similar to which one of the following situations" wrong. any tips on those?

tldr: spend more time on passage and spend a minute or so at the end mental mapping the passage.

-------------------------------------------------------
so far i have a good grasp on: RC, strengthen, main point, sufficient assumptions, flaws, relative ordering, simple ordering.
by the end of the month: continue with RC, necessary assumption, weaken, and complex ordering.

goal is by july 18th to start taking PTs every other day and a review session in between to review and drill missed question types.

sashafierce · Post by **sashafierce** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:33 pm

cavalier2015 wrote:i am consistently getting the questions that ask "this reasoning/this example is most similar to which one of the following situations" wrong. any tips on those?

My strategy is
1) Identify the situation in the passage that they are referring to, read it/quickly scan it
2) Summarize the situation in my own words (very loosely for e.g. One person helped another person accomplish a task by doing XYZ)
3) Use Process of Elimination
4) Ensure that my correct answer choice matches my paraphrase in both Scope and Function

HTH

95 more days folks!

EDIT: its actually 95 not 96 more days

I downloaded a countdown app from the Appstore

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:37 pm

Post removed.

joeisreallycool · Post by **joeisreallycool** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:02 pm

A little late, but in on this.

Straw_Mandible · Post by **Straw_Mandible** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:00 pm

mornincounselor wrote:
h3jk5h wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:Just went -3 on a RC Section (Preptest 5) !!!!

For LR question explanations: check out the Manhattan forums for LR

I would recommend beginning to prep as soon as possible in preparation for the September exam. It's better to plan for September and possibly have to put it off to December than to prepare for December and have no backup plan.
What was the difference between your approach to this section to the one you got -10, if I could ask?
Well, this section was the first LSAT-related thing I did today. Whereas the prior section was the 4th section of a full timed test.
I did this section at 9:30 AM compared to nearly 5PM for the other section. (I am best in the morning as I normally prep 9AM-2PM)
For this section I timed and then graded each section separately. Then added up my time after 3 passages to know how much I had for the last passage.
I suppose I also gave myself an extra minute or so as I didn't have to transfer answers over.

Plus I did look over the RCB last night. (Awaiting delivery of Manhattan RC 4th)

So possibly by not worrying about time I took longer on the passages and that allowed me to spend less time on the questions, but I'm not sure, I need to drill a lot more to conclude that.

So what you're saying is that you drilled individual passages separately under time constraints and added them together?

That's a perfectly acceptable way to drill, but you should realize that it doesn't accurately reflect your scoring capacity for a full 35 minute section. RC timing is all about sustained focus--35 minutes of thinking about only the right things at exactly the right time. If you allow time between passages to decompress/recalibrate, that ruins the section's predictability.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble--I just think it's an important thing to keep in mind. Congrats on the progress!