DECEMBER 2014 WAITERS Forum

[Skool]

I'm certainly mad about that. It's the same anger because it's still one sided in the value they extract from me vs. the value I get from them and my inability to combat it.

Anger in either case isn't mutually exclusive.

[Wieters]

This argument is stupid. Obviously LSAC is not withholding our scores for their own entertainment. Just appreciate the fact that it takes a lot of time and effort to produce a perfect product like the LSAT. As people who have devoted this much of our lives to this test, we really shouldn't be begging them to cut corners. Whatever they're doing, it's probably necessary.

I don't think they're witholding for our entertainment either. Nor am I asking for corners to be cut. Respectfully, these are straw men.

The question is about expectations and incentives for delivering high quality service as opposed to just taking my money and getting me the scores whenever.

A key question is, how do you know what they're doing is necessary? Why do you make that assumption? Why does LSAC deserve the benefit of the doubt?

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Why do folks make a judgment one way or the other.

Unless there are nuances that we are not privy to yet genuinely take 4 and a half weeks to process and would affect the entire pool's scores if they were not processed, the conclusion I draw is that they're covering their asses.

They could be cutting costs and understaffing, meaning that everything takes longer. They could be giving themselves a lax timetable given their monopoly on services. They could be building in several extra weeks to accommodate for unforeseen circumstances.

Whatever the case, it's amateur.

[GreenTee]

This argument is stupid. Obviously LSAC is not withholding our scores for their own entertainment. Just appreciate the fact that it takes a lot of time and effort to produce a perfect product like the LSAT. As people who have devoted this much of our lives to this test, we really shouldn't be begging them to cut corners. Whatever they're doing, it's probably necessary.

I don't think they're witholding for our entertainment either. Nor am I asking for corners to be cut. Respectfully, these are straw men.

The question is about expectations and incentives for delivering high quality service as opposed to just taking my money and getting me the scores whenever.

A key question is, how do you know what they're doing is necessary? Why do you make that assumption? Why does LSAC deserve the benefit of the doubt?

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Why do folks make a judgment one way or the other.

Because their product is perfect. Respect the test, and recognize that the integrity of this entire system depends on LSAC doing its job as well as it possibly can.

[The Avatar]

There is a significant drop in LSAT test takers and applications overall compared to the years of 2007-2012, when scores released prior to the holidays.

[Skool]

You know, I would have a much easier time "respecting the test" if I didn't have to pay for it. When the system starts bearing the costs of the "integrity" it's so invested in, I'll STFU.

I think a crucial part of changing everything in higher education financing (in which LSAC plays a small role) is that students have to stop assuming good faith and actually be publicly discontent.

[GreenTee]

Yeah you definitely need to chill out. We've all invested a huge chunk of our lives into this test. But now is the time when we wait. That's all. Have a beer.

[PeanutsNJam]

You guys are really gonna have a great time waiting to hear from schools after you apply.

[Wieters]

Yeah you definitely need to chill out. We've all invested a huge chunk of our lives into this test. But now is the time when we wait. That's all. Have a beer.

[Skool]

There's a difference in power dynamics and economic relationships in LSAT waiting and App. Watiing.

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

[jw316]

WTF happened ITT.

[Skool]

WTF happened ITT.

Dude you have to read the comments, OP totally delivered a better version:

[Wieters]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

[bob311]

I do think there is an important point to be made in all this heated discussion.

The fact that the LSAC runs a total monopoly on law school admissions. Think about it, we are completely beholden to the people at the LSAC for the LSAT, our score reports, paying them for the CAS...etc etc. They have multiple streams of income- the LSAT, the CAS services, having law schools pay for groups of students to email with (I am assuming it is the same system used by undergraduate programs for the PSAT and other similar programs, where the school pays for a batch of data- in this case, students with a score in a certain range.) Considering the multiple income streams with the fact there are no other competitors, the LSAC can basically do whatever they want. For good, bad and worse. Its the truth.

I believe competition is one way of solving it. Makes it harder on the law schools, but look at undergrads. On one hand, the SAT. On the other, the ACT. Different companies. Competition. More transparency and less cost.


What is most frustrating about the process is the lack of control. In order to be potential lawyers, we must do all the sets at the price the LSAC requires. We have no alternatives. But I have alternatives as an undergrad, even as a grad student. No GRE? Go to graduate school in the UK for instance. But here, we are stuck. I for one, hate the complete lack of control on a process that I invested great time and money. It is frustrating. I sincerely wish they would have released the scores today. I believe they are ready to be released unless there is work done over the holiday, because clearly if they aren't, they wouldn't be getting them done with just a single working day between right now and Jan. 5.

For now, complain and wait. Works for me.

[Skool]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

Not at all. I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

And who the fuck are you, you're acting like some kind of Jerry Springer audience member.

[Wieters]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

Not at all. I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

And who the fuck are you, you're acting like some kind of Jerry Springer audience member.

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

[PeanutsNJam]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

Not at all. I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

And who the fuck are you, you're acting like some kind of Jerry Springer audience member.

I will say it's reasonable to be peeved that you can't get your score earlier, because in an ideal situation, it shouldn't take this long to get your score. I was not attacking your character to invalidate your argument, I was highlighting, using an analogy, how disrespectful you were being to other people who don't even benefit from the massive amounts of money you're paying, and it wasn't directed solely at you.

[Wieters]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

Not at all. I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

And who the fuck are you, you're acting like some kind of Jerry Springer audience member.

I will say it's reasonable to be peeved that you can't get your score earlier, because in an ideal situation, it shouldn't take this long to get your score. I was not attacking your character to invalidate your argument, I was highlighting, using an analogy, how disrespectful you were being to other people who don't even benefit from the massive amounts of money you're paying, and it wasn't directed solely at you.

Can we now knight him as sincere and committed to truth seeking?

[Skool]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

Not at all. I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

And who the fuck are you, you're acting like some kind of Jerry Springer audience member.

I will say it's reasonable to be peeved that you can't get your score earlier, because in an ideal situation, it shouldn't take this long to get your score. I was not attacking your character to invalidate your argument, I was highlighting, using an analogy, how disrespectful you were being to other people who don't even benefit from the massive amounts of money you're paying.

You're right strictly speaking, it wasn't ad hom. because you attacked my analysis and perspective as a conclusion rather than as a premise in your argument. Fine, I get that. Still, not a particularly fair characterization that their perspective was beyond my reach or alluded my analysis; i just think conditions are sufficient for it to be disregarded. But ok, fair enough.

[GreenTee]

.

[Wieters]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

Not at all. I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

And who the fuck are you, you're acting like some kind of Jerry Springer audience member.

You're right strictly speaking, it wasn't ad hom. because you attacked my analysis and perspective as a conclusion rather than as a premise in your argument. Fine, I get that. Still, not a particularly fair characterization that their perspective was beyond my reach or alluded my analysis; i just think conditions are sufficient for it to be disregarded. But ok, fair enough.

Please tell me you're like this in real life. I will travel to whatever hamlet you decide to attend law school in and become your scribe.

[Username123]

BTW, PNJ, can I get an apology for the earlier ad hominem? I think my analysis proved perfectly respectable.

If serious this is epic.

Not at all. I will take PNJ's response as a mark of sincerity and commitment to truth seeking. Excluding the bad judgment in lingering on the topic a little too long, I think I've been reasonable in presenting my case.

And who the fuck are you, you're acting like some kind of Jerry Springer audience member.

Lol.

Future gunner.

[IsThisForReal]

Did you guys really waste almost 2 pages on LSAC scoring arguments? You need to get these people in check OP.

[PeanutsNJam]

It's almost Christmas Eve here in Shanghai! Merry Christmas ITFR. My mother's off with the entirety of my extended family at some Idon'tknowwhere place doing whatever, and I elected to stay home. So this Christmas Eve it's gonna be me in my room, with a glass of cheap wine. Maybe I'll play some sad piano music in a bit. At least I have a phenomenal unobstructed view from my home. 33rd floor, bitches.

[IsThisForReal]

My boss just sent me to get donuts for the office. And now I will, for the first and last time this year, listen to Christmas music while I pretend that I'm working.

[Smallville]

Merry Christmas Eve waiterz & lurkers, hope you have a fabulous day relaxing knowing scores arnt coming out td

as much as waiting for scores sucks (as im sure it does) it could be much worse... My sister just graduated from school and took her test to become a licensed massage therapist and she had to wait double the normal LSAT wait... yes, this test is huge and determines where you can go to school and potentially how your future could end up and hers enabled her to go to work but when looking at the test itself there is very little difference in scoring and getting those scores released so just be glad you dont have to wait 7-8 weeks