The Official June 2015 Study Group Forum

ms9 · Post by **ms9** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:00 pm

ccordero wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a little something I wrote about the June LSAT, no idea if it is helpful, but the quote at the top I think is true.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-tr ... me-buddha/
Pretty interesting read, thanks for sharing!

and on cue, my website goes down.

Blueprint Ben · Post by **Blueprint Ben** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:04 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a little something I wrote about the June LSAT, no idea if it is helpful, but the quote at the top I think is true.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-tr ... me-buddha/

Spivey, I absolutely love this post, and I hope everyone reads it. Thanks so much for sharing.

Also, best of luck with the 10K! 47:00 has nothing on you.

ms9 · Post by **ms9** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:10 pm

BP Ben wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a little something I wrote about the June LSAT, no idea if it is helpful, but the quote at the top I think is true.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-tr ... me-buddha/
Spivey, I absolutely love this post, and I hope everyone reads it. Thanks so much for sharing.

Also, best of luck with the 10K! 47:00 has nothing on you.

Thank you. What is funny is the blogs I write that I don't think go well people tend to seem to like more than the ones I think that do go well.

Not unlike the LSAT?

bnssweeney · Post by **bnssweeney** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:50 pm

Took a week off because I was in Europe. I'm now having a really hard time getting back in the swing of things. I feel like my LG skills are weak after one week off. I guess they're really a "if you don't use it, you loose it" kind of thing.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm hoping a few days of going back to my regular schedule will put me back on track.

nlee10 · Post by **nlee10** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:56 pm

bnssweeney wrote:Took a week off because I was in Europe. I'm now having a really hard time getting back in the swing of things. I feel like my LG skills are weak after one week off. I guess they're really a "if you don't use it, you loose it" kind of thing.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm hoping a few days of going back to my regular schedule will put me back on track.

Took like 4.5 weeks off from LSAT in between taking the Feb test and waiting for scores to come/finally starting up. My LG skills were definitely the first to go and still trying to work on timing.

TheProdigal · Post by **TheProdigal** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:58 pm

bnssweeney wrote:Took a week off because I was in Europe. I'm now having a really hard time getting back in the swing of things. I feel like my LG skills are weak after one week off. I guess they're really a "if you don't use it, you loose it" kind of thing.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm hoping a few days of going back to my regular schedule will put me back on track.

I found Cambridge's Difficult Games pack to be excellent for getting back in the swing of it and staying fresh every few days.

jwelsh · Post by **jwelsh** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:02 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a little something I wrote about the June LSAT, no idea if it is helpful, but the quote at the top I think is true.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-tr ... me-buddha/

Spivey-

As a preface, I respect the heck out of what you do on the board and in general. That said, I take (slight) issue with some of the points in your post, especially as a runner. The "train harder" mentality sounds great and works great as a motivator, but the reality is that such a mentality leads to injury with running and burn-out with academics.

The key with training (with running and, to some extent academics) is to train smarter not harder. As an example, when I was training for a marathon with a goal time of under 3 hours (6:52 pace), I would very rarely run that pace in training. I might have some days where I would run that pace but it would be at a much shorter distance. Similarly, I'd often have built in to my training "recovery" days. Every day couldn't be a workout and even my longest workouts (my long runs) would still be shorter than the 26.2 miles I was hoping to run on race day. All of those conditions: running slower than race pace, having recovery days, and never exceeding the race distance in training all served one purpose: to keep me healthy and injury free leading up the race and allowing my body to make the necessary adaptations that would come over time.

Now, is that the same as the LSAT? Yes and no. If I insist on running hard on every run during my week, eventually my body will start protesting-- soreness, fatigue, pain, etc. If I ignore, those signals from my body that something is amiss (and convince myself that I need to just "work harder" than the other guy), one of two things will happen: 1) I will get injured, which will derail my training completely or 2) I will get to the starting line burnt out and exhausted. These sorts of things can happen with LSAT studying (or any sort of studying): you can hit the books again and again and drill and drill but, if your mind is telling you you aren't understanding or retaining anything, you're either going to burnout and completely disengage from studying or you'll make it to test day barely hanging by a thread and just struggle.

With all that said, my view with running (and studying) is that it's most important to train smarter, not harder. Or, put another way, training harder MUST mean training smarter-- focusing on specific areas of improvement, putting in good consistent effort over time, having a specific purpose to your study sessions, and still respecting your mind and body enough that if they tell you something is amiss and you need a rest, you take it. Don't disengage and hit up Cabo for a week, but take a day off. A day off or an easier, "cut back" week will pay much greater dividends than months of sloppy, half-hearted effort because you're injured/burnt out.

Just a few thoughts. All that digression aside, best of luck with the 10K. BoulderBoulder is a big time race.

Blueprint Ben · Post by **Blueprint Ben** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:28 pm

Good post, jwelsh. I agree with your sentiment, but keep in mind that running and LSATting are different in at least one critical way: the LSAT is zero impact training. You can't get an injury if you study to hard, too fast, too soon. I'm training for a marathon right now too, and I know how much an injury can set you back. The equivalent just doesn't exist in LSAT prep. If you feel burnt out, you take a recovery day or two, and you start again right where you left off (or even stronger). No amount of studying can set you back in any meaningful way. I get that people might lose motivation if they're feeling burnt out, but that's just psychological. Motivation is something we can manufacture. But if you tear your Achilles' tendon, you're off your feet for weeks, and you forfeit all the work you put in.

There's no risk in overtraining for the LSAT. In fact, I think that familiar splitting headache we associate with burn out is a very good sign. It means that you need to recover, sure, but it also means that you'll come back stronger after that rest period.

Tl;dr - study as hard as you possibly can, and take breaks only when you need them. There are no injuries in LSAT prep.

ms9 · Post by **ms9** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:30 pm

jwelsh wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a little something I wrote about the June LSAT, no idea if it is helpful, but the quote at the top I think is true.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-tr ... me-buddha/
Spivey-

As a preface, I respect the heck out of what you do on the board and in general. That said, I take (slight) issue with some of the points in your post, especially as a runner. The "train harder" mentality sounds great and works great as a motivator, but the reality is that such a mentality leads to injury with running and burn-out with academics.

The key with training (with running and, to some extent academics) is to train smarter not harder. As an example, when I was training for a marathon with a goal time of under 3 hours (6:52 pace), I would very rarely run that pace in training. I might have some days where I would run that pace but it would be at a much shorter distance. Similarly, I'd often have built in to my training "recovery" days. Every day couldn't be a workout and even my longest workouts (my long runs) would still be shorter than the 26.2 miles I was hoping to run on race day. All of those conditions: running slower than race pace, having recovery days, and never exceeding the race distance in training all served one purpose: to keep me healthy and injury free leading up the race and allowing my body to make the necessary adaptations that would come over time.

Now, is that the same as the LSAT? Yes and no. If I insist on running hard on every run during my week, eventually my body will start protesting-- soreness, fatigue, pain, etc. If I ignore, those signals from my body that something is amiss (and convince myself that I need to just "work harder" than the other guy), one of two things will happen: 1) I will get injured, which will derail my training completely or 2) I will get to the starting line burnt out and exhausted. These sorts of things can happen with LSAT studying (or any sort of studying): you can hit the books again and again and drill and drill but, if your mind is telling you you aren't understanding or retaining anything, you're either going to burnout and completely disengage from studying or you'll make it to test day barely hanging by a thread and just struggle.

With all that said, my view with running (and studying) is that it's most important to train smarter, not harder. Or, put another way, training harder MUST mean training smarter-- focusing on specific areas of improvement, putting in good consistent effort over time, having a specific purpose to your study sessions, and still respecting your mind and body enough that if they tell you something is amiss and you need a rest, you take it. Don't disengage and hit up Cabo for a week, but take a day off. A day off or an easier, "cut back" week will pay much greater dividends than months of sloppy, half-hearted effort because you're injured/burnt out.

Just a few thoughts. All that digression aside, best of luck with the 10K. BoulderBoulder is a big time race.

Thanks for the input. I don't necessarily disagree, indeed I have been on the internet long enough to know that most often when people say "I stand by my statement(s) they are usually the ones being ideological rather than objective (has anyone else noticed that?). I am certain you are right. But I will color in where I am coming from and if we start boring people to tears we can discuss over PM!

I'm not a runner but I am a former sprinter. For me, a 10k is a distance run, indeed other than last year's BB it is the furthest distance I have run minus possibly some hell week football nonsense or even more ludicrous hell week pledge training nonsense. Everything I did in sports was short burtsy stuff, RB in Football, CF in Baseball and 55m and 200 in indoor track. So I need to a) get my old pathetic self in shape and b) trick fast-twitch into slow twitch. From what I have read in everything I have researched on this stuff, that takes hard hard yards, as they say.

I don't think I ever said (and apologies if I did) that I need to go all out on every training run, indeed a vary them considerably, or that someone needs to take a 4 hour test every time they open a book. And obviously I will never run a 10k at a sub 5/mile no matter how hard a train. I wouldn't score a 180 no matter how many hours I put into LSAT prep. But, I particularly think when you are out of your comfort zone like I am here, hard work over others is the best thing you can do. That, plus all the distractions, plus the fact that the LSAT is rapidly approaching more than some realize is all I am saying in the blog. In the end I don't think training "smart" and "training hard" are mutually exclusive at all -- but I do think the motivation for training hard is more difficult than that of "training smart"...my 2 cents at least, you can probably expect change.

Shakawkaw · Post by **Shakawkaw** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:35 pm

jwelsh, I think the point of Spivey's blog post is not that people should overclock their brains, but that in 2 months, all the hard work will mean something. He's advocating never giving up. Tears, Spivey. Absolutely beautiful.

Scooped by the big man himself.

jwelsh · Post by **jwelsh** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:18 pm

Thanks for chiming in Spivey and Ben. The LSAT and running are not perfectly analogous. I just couldn't resist chiming in about running training.

RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:36 pm

Gamer you asshole I PMed you and you didn't reply wtf I feel betrayed we were LG brothers

McJimJam · Post by **McJimJam** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Post removed.

RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:03 pm

McJimJam wrote:
TheWalkingDebt wrote:
gamerish wrote:I FINISHED A GAME IN TIME HOLY SHIT I FINISHED A GAME IN TIME
OPs reaction:

On point it seems.

No if Gamer is getting better at LG that's a good thing because that means I can probably improve too.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:13 pm

RZ5646 wrote: No if Gamer is getting better at LG that's a good thing because that means I can probably improve too.

Maybe; maybe not.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:15 pm

I see you Abyss.

RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:20 pm

Rigo wrote:
RZ5646 wrote: No if Gamer is getting better at LG that's a good thing because that means I can probably improve too.
Maybe; maybe not.

Well and doing one game in time isn't exactly fantastic anyway (no offense Gamer). I was doing that within a couple weeks of starting to study LG. I just can't do it consistently on hard games.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:22 pm

I like to have fun, but I don't play games!

The Abyss · Post by **The Abyss** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:32 pm

Rigo wrote:I see you Abyss.

I was a little quick to judge.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:34 pm

The Abyss wrote:
Rigo wrote:I see you Abyss.
I was a little quick to judge.

It was a pretty spot on judgement.
Don't be so insecure.

santoki · Post by **santoki** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:38 pm

Post removed.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:38 pm

If OP is bullying you, please report to the mods.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:45 pm

Can we get a new poll?

The Abyss · Post by **The Abyss** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:52 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
RZ5646 wrote: No if Gamer is getting better at LG that's a good thing because that means I can probably improve too.
Maybe; maybe not.

Well and doing one game in time isn't exactly fantastic anyway (no offense Gamer). I was doing that within a couple weeks of starting to study LG. I just can't do it consistently on hard games.

I hate this phrase. It's exactly what someone says right before (or in this case, after) intentionally saying something offensive in an attempt to make it okay.

santoki · Post by **santoki** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:00 pm

Post removed.