Are you ready for total DOMINATION?!! (Feb. 2011) Forum

[DarkPhantom]

Anyone able to explain the setup and inferences from the 4th game on PT48?

""Three folk groups—Glenside, Hilltopper, Levon—and three
rock groups—Peasant, Query, Tinhead—each perform on one
of two stages, north or south. Each stage has three two-hour
performances: north at 6, 8, and 10; south at 8, 10, and 12.
Each group performs individually and exactly once, consistent
with the following conditions:

Peasant performs at 6 or 12.
Glenside performs at some time before Hilltopper.
If any rock group performs at 10, no folk group does.
Levon and Tinhead perform on different stages.
Query performs immediately after a folk group, though
not necessarily on the same stage."

[Pleasye]

If no one answers that for you DarkPhantom, I'll do it when I get home (too hard to do all that on my phone)

Can anyone help me out with PT 56 LR2 #20? I don't understand how D weakens the argument.

[SKI]

Pleasye: The structure of the argument is tricky in that question. It's a causal argument saying that (C) People who regularly consume high doses of vitamin C supplements have a significantly lower than average risk of heart disease (E) People who take vitamin C are healthier than average. You can weaken this causal argument by showing the cause does not always result in the stated effect. Answer choice D states that high doses of vitamin C reduces one's resistance to certain common infectious diseases. So basically this demonstrates that these people who consume high doses of vitamin C might NOT be healthier on average (i.e., even though they have a lower risk of heart disease, they suffer from an increased susceptibility to infectious diseases). The credited response shows that the given cause does not always result in the given effect.

EDIT: just wanted to highlight the big gap between lower rate of heart disease and being healthier than average. Any number of responses that show a negative side effect from taking large doses of vitamin C would weaken this argument. Taken to the extreme, if large doses of vitamin C gave people cancer, while lowering their risk of heart disease, would they be more healthy than average?

[Pleasye]

Thanks SKI. That makes way more sense. I was reading the answer choice as saying that Vitamin C helped you resist infectious disease instead of the other way around, ugh.

[SKI]

It's a definitely a tough one-- the correct answer is counter intuitive as we normally think of vitamin C increasing our resistance to infectious diseases. The correct answer also says "reduce slightly," which makes it sound unimportant and weak.

[DarkPhantom]

I did this for the setup, but I don't know what to do with the vars, two groups, 3 each
F: GHL
R: PQT

North stage:
___ ____ ____ __X__
6 - 8 - 10 - 12


South Stage:
__X__ ____ ____ ____
6 - 8 - 10 - 12

[Pleasye]

I did this for the setup, but I don't know what to do with the vars, two groups, 3 each
F: GHL
R: PQT

North stage:
___ ____ ____ __X__
6 - 8 - 10 - 12


South Stage:
__X__ ____ ____ ____
6 - 8 - 10 - 12

Make another tier for F/R so you can keep track more easily? I'll be home in like 3 hours and I'll do this game and post it for you, promise!

[DarkPhantom]

Make another tier for F/R so you can keep track more easily? I'll be home in like 3 hours and I'll do this game and post it for you, promise!

Take your time, I have plenty on my plate

[JenDarby]

Has anyone done 58 recently? The question I got wrong in LG, I somewhat guessed on, but truly can't see why the answer is what it is for some reason (I'm sure it's stupid of me). It's the game about Flyhigh and Getaway airlines, the 4th question asking "which of the following must be true"

There is clearly something I am missing, and I just don't see what.

[SchopenhauerFTW]

.

[Pleasye]

Okay DarkPhantom...I'm about to do that game for ya. Hopefully I don't end up completely stuck after promising to do it

[DarkPhantom]

Thanks!

[SKI]

JenDarby: The basic rules are international flights depart before domestic flights, and Getaway domestic flights depart before flyhigh domestic flights.

P is international flyhigh
R is domestic getaway
Q is domestic flyhigh
S is Getaway
T is Getaway

From this you can infer P>R>Q. The remaining variables are S and T, both of which are Getaway. You do not know if they are domestic or international, but this is not relevant to this question, since if they are international they go before all domestic or if they are domestic, they go before all domestic flyhigh (Q).

In other words, S and T must always go before Q. There is no variable that can depart after Q.

[Pleasye]

Thanks!

Sorry that took me forever, I said I was going to do it and then got distracted.

So I set this up the way that you set it up, but the most important difference was that I gave my set-up an extra tier for F/R. This didn't make a huge difference in the game but it definitely helped me keep the variables straight and was especially helpful on the last two questions.

N
___ ___ ___ __X_
___ ___ ___ __X_
6 8 10 12

S
_X__ ___ ___ ___
_X__ ___ ___ ___
6 8 10 12

I'm not a huge inference maker, I pretty much plug and chug through games and this one was pretty plug and chuggable (lol).

I know this probably wasn't very helpful but I think the biggest inference I made was that the 3rd rule:
R10 ---> F not 10
F10 ---> R not 10

Meant that whenever there is an R in one of the 10's there is an R in the other 10 and same applies for an F being in 10.

If anyone else got bigger inferences feel free to post! I don't think I'm being very helpful

Edit: the formatting isn't coming out great but I think you get the picture.

[Lasker]

Anyone able to explain the setup and inferences from the 4th game on PT48?

""Three folk groups—Glenside, Hilltopper, Levon—and three
rock groups—Peasant, Query, Tinhead—each perform on one
of two stages, north or south. Each stage has three two-hour
performances: north at 6, 8, and 10; south at 8, 10, and 12.
Each group performs individually and exactly once, consistent
with the following conditions:

Peasant performs at 6 or 12.
Glenside performs at some time before Hilltopper.
If any rock group performs at 10, no folk group does.
Levon and Tinhead perform on different stages.
Query performs immediately after a folk group, though
not necessarily on the same stage."

The following seems like the most efficient diagram - north and south should be plotted together, not separately. I think one of the important inferences is that the ten o clock groups must be either both folk or both rock.

N _ _ _ x
S x _ _ _
6 8 10 12

I'll go through the whole game later if Pleasye hasn't already finished by then. One subtlety that has helped me on this sort of game is to make one group lower case, and the other upper case. I don't know why, but I have a really hard time keeping two groups (folk and rock in this instance) straight any other way.

EDIT: timing fail

[DarkPhantom]

Thanks, I guess I can try again with the 2nd tier in there, and see how that goes. I just assumed I was doing it totally wrong and there was an easier way. Thanks!

p.s. one other question I missed was #17 from Pt48, LG game #3 wit hthe technicians and the things they repair:

- - - In a repair facility there are exactly six technicians: Stacy, Urma, Wim, Yolanda and Zane. Each techie repairs machines of at least one of the following three types - radios, TV's, and VCR's - and no other types. The following conditions apply:
* Xena and exactly three other techies repair radios
so there are 4 Rs to be distributed, and X:R is one of them
* Yolanda repairs both TV's & VCR's
Y=T & V
* Stacy doesn't repair any type of machine that Yolanda repairs
figured if stacy doesn't repair any machine that yolanda repairs, and yolanda already repairs T & V, then stacy must repair R, and Y cannot repair more than T & V.
so I get :
S: R |
Y: T V|
* Zena repairs more types of machines that Yolanda repairs
Since Y repairs 2, Z must repair 3, making it Tvs,Vcrs, and Radios.
* Wim does not repair any type of machine that Stacy repairs
Since stacey repairs R, then Wim is T/V
* Urma repairs exactly two types of machines
U:__ ___

I diagrammed as follows:

S:R|
U:R __|
W:__ or ___ ___
X:R or R ___
Y:T V |
Z:R V T|

four Rs distributed, so no one else repairs Radios.

So the main issue was with the Which of the following must be true:
ANswer choices were:
There is exactly one type of machine that both U and W repair
There is exactly one type of machine that both U and X repair
There is exactly one type of machine that both U and Y repair
There is exactly one type of machine that both W and Y repair
There is exactly one type of machine that both X and Y repair

answer is C, but I chose D. anyone want to explain?

LOL, never mind, I just solved my own problem. It turns out that D is incorrect because W can be T or V, or both.

[DarkPhantom]

Lasker, that was the diagram I used, I just ran outta time so I couldn't figure it out, but now that I sat down and thought about it, it does make more sense, but still not as easy as I had hoped. I've finished the LGB and while it looks similar, not one of the ones in the book iirc...

[Dotson525]

Anyone able to explain the setup and inferences from the 4th game on PT48?

""Three folk groups—Glenside, Hilltopper, Levon—and three
rock groups—Peasant, Query, Tinhead—each perform on one
of two stages, north or south. Each stage has three two-hour
performances: north at 6, 8, and 10; south at 8, 10, and 12.
Each group performs individually and exactly once, consistent
with the following conditions:

1. Peasant performs at 6 or 12.
2. Glenside performs at some time before Hilltopper.
3. If any rock group performs at 10, no folk group does.
4. Levon and Tinhead perform on different stages.
5. Query performs immediately after a folk group, though
not necessarily on the same stage."

Ok. I do not have this test, but can provide a set up based on the info.
My strategy: First figure where certain items cannot belong. Second, combine rules (I number rules, to make sure I don't forget one)

1. First set up make P=6, T=10n, Q=10s (its rock, and can easily place folk in front). Remember no LT, so L fits in 8s. Now left with G and H, and 8n and 12s (G->H). Therefore G=8n and H=12s.

~Q
~H ~P ~P
N: _P_ _G_ _T_
6 8 10
~P ~P ~G
S: _L_ _Q_ _H_
8 10 12

Set up 2 simple: P will now be 12s.
1. Remember H cannot be 6n, so move G to left
2. H now 8n

Once this is set up to a quick POE of the question that asks what could be a possible list/schedule. Remember immediately eliminate those that go against our inferences (G in 12s, Q or H in 6n). Also, any set up with LT. You are usually left with two options. Remember the rule of Rock in 10. Hopefully this will lead to answer.

Hope this helps! Sorry, I don't have PT.

[Dotson525]

Does anyone have suggestions/tips for LR questions of "the argument proceeds by" or "plays what role in the argument"? Noticed a slight problem of grasping these questions.

[wolfpack37]

Has anyone done 58 recently? The question I got wrong in LG, I somewhat guessed on, but truly can't see why the answer is what it is for some reason (I'm sure it's stupid of me). It's the game about Flyhigh and Getaway airlines, the 4th question asking "which of the following must be true"

There is clearly something I am missing, and I just don't see what.

The answer is B.

Relevant rules:
1. P is international.
2. Q is domestic.
3. International flights > domestic flights
4. Getaway domestic flights > Flyhigh domestic flights


Flyhigh has 2 flights, P and Q. P is international and Q is domestic, according to rules 1 and 2, respectively. Therefore P > Q (Rule 3). Getaway has 3 flights, R, S, T. Rules 3 and 4, taken together ensure that regardless whether RST are international or domestic, they will depart earlier than Q. Therefore PRST > Q, and Q must depart last (Option B).

I hope that makes sense haha

EDIT: whoops, didn't see SKI already got it

[butter33]

i used voyager's RC strategy today and FINALLY managed to beat 168.

92 raw, 172 scaled, PT 46

RC: -1 ( )
LR1: -2
LR2: -4
LG: -1 ( )


i think i'm definately going to stick to his strategy, finally took me into the 170s

[Pleasye]

Nice job Butter!

[vissidarte27]

FREAKING BREAKTHROUGH.

Took PT 56 (for the first time).

LG: -0
LR1: -3
LR2: -0
RC: -2

HOLY CRAP.

Raw score: 95
Scaled score: 176

You guys. Holy crap. I tried Voyagers strategy for RC and I think that really helped. I don't even know what happened with LR, it just felt smooth and obvious and easy. And I'm pretty sure that was the simplest LG section I've ever seen. And I think it really, really, really helped that I was in a place that was actually quiet as opposed to Starbucks or the grocery store cafe or any of the other places I've been testing.

Oh man. I'm on cloud freaking nine.

[Pleasye]

OMG YAY VISSI!!!! Nice fucking job dude.

tooold you so about noisy coffee shops.

[vissidarte27]

OMG YAY VISSI!!!! Nice fucking job dude.

tooold you so about noisy coffee shops.

Oh man. I don't even know what happened. I just GOT it. It made sense.

And you were totally right. Lack of noise made a HUGE difference in my concentration level -- I did my PT today in my boss's dressing room (she's a singer and I got to see her show tonight). I wish I could do all my test prep in there. That room is magical, I'm convinced.