December 2010 Initial Reactions Forum

[Claudius]

+1 to the replied post

The June test had tough games (Mulch and Interns) -14 curve

December had Stain-Glasses and Conferences....Stain glasses was much harder than Mulch and Conferences was just as hard as Interns if not harder....

I don't think anyone is going to agree with you that the LG's were "straightforward"

June was -12 for a 170 and definitely not -14.

[deakon10]

When people say -12 or -10 curve, does that mean that is a 170? Or what?

i'm sticking with my pre-test prediction of a -10 curve

With a 102 possible correct questions I would say at least -12. LG was very difficult and that usually sets the curve.

[lakers3peat]

yes. -14 means you can get 14 wrong and get a 170.

[bartleby]

Honestly, I'd be surprised if it was anything more than -12.

After every LSAT people come on the board and say it was the hardest ever.

Dec 2010 was for sure hard, esp. two games - but the other two games were ridiculously easy - if you even got to the fourth game, that is (which wasn't my case).

I felt one LR section, which I'm now becoming to realize is real, was hard as balls but the other LR sections was very, very easy.

RC overall was easier than some recent RCs. Nothing was a Noguchi (sp). I think we have a better chance of getting -10 than we do -14. Most likely -11/-12 like Oct. is what I'd guess.

[bartleby]

+1 to the replied post

The June test had tough games (Mulch and Interns) -14 curve

December had Stain-Glasses and Conferences....Stain glasses was much harder than Mulch and Conferences was just as hard as Interns if not harder....

I don't think anyone is going to agree with you that the LG's were "straightforward"

June was -12 for a 170 and definitely not -14.

The first two games on June were also much less straightforward than G1 and G4.

[kwais]

Can someone explain how a test that is scaled into percentiles is curved before the test data is taken?!?

How is it possible that out of all the test takers, no one fits into the 99th percentile?? How do they predict how many students will get so many questions wrong before hand? If they did, wouldn't it be technically unfair if the test is difficult for most people who function at the 90th percentile? Doesnt that give people who attend other administrations an arbitrary advantage, depending on how LSAT thinks their own test is?

If they do, why they hell does it take a month for me to get my goddamn score?

My Guess:
That's why you have an experimental section - they want to get a general idea of what questions trip people up who score 140, 150, 160, 170...I believe that's also why Feb is undisclosed. You'll notice the practice tests are only the four scored sections, not the ES.

But...

This still doesn't make sense. How could they predict the distribution without even knowing how many people take the test? To find out if you fit into the 90th percentile, wouldnt they have to see how many you have gotten correctly vesus how many the others have gotten correctly, and how many test takers there are?

WTF?!

really? no one has a definitive answer on how this works? Cmon TLS!

[InformationOverlord]

I registered for TLS with this user-name after taking the LSAT today.

If you took the December LG, you'll recognize it refers to a not-so-hidden little "Screw-You"-message sent from LSAC to all test-takers.

[Tullstone]

Found it:

The LSAT is not curved - it is equated. That is, the difficulty of the questions is determined by giving them in experimental sections of previous tests (this is why there is an experimental section). That known difficulty is then used to set the scoring key so that any given score correlates to the same level of performance across all tests. (The "margin of error" that LSAC releases with your test results is a description of the statistical certainty of this correlation.)

This is important because it adjusts for any demographic differences that may occur between test administrations due to economic fluctuations or preferences for a certain time of year. If the test was simply curved, one could play the system by determining which administration was likely to have the most lenient curve. Instead, all administrations have identically difficult tests, within LSAC's stated margin of error.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=140100

[rht82688]

does anyone remember how many questions the jewlet passage had?

[bartleby]

does anyone remember how many questions the jewlet passage had?

Six.

[Tullstone]

EDITED BY MODS: This could be construed as soliciting copyrighted info about the LGs via PM. Don't do that.

[Redamon1]

Fuck, now I remember babies and ladders and if that is confirmed real, I am confirmed fucked.

So, what's the verdict? I'm also hoping babies/ladders were experimental.

[kwais]

Found it:

The LSAT is not curved - it is equated. That is, the difficulty of the questions is determined by giving them in experimental sections of previous tests (this is why there is an experimental section). That known difficulty is then used to set the scoring key so that any given score correlates to the same level of performance across all tests. (The "margin of error" that LSAC releases with your test results is a description of the statistical certainty of this correlation.)

This is important because it adjusts for any demographic differences that may occur between test administrations due to economic fluctuations or preferences for a certain time of year. If the test was simply curved, one could play the system by determining which administration was likely to have the most lenient curve. Instead, all administrations have identically difficult tests, within LSAC's stated margin of error.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=140100

hmmm. not entirely satisfying, but thanks

[Tullstone]

Fuck, now I remember babies and ladders and if that is confirmed real, I am confirmed fucked.

So, what's the verdict? I'm also hoping babies/ladders were experimental.

Tis the real mccoy braahh

[Tullstone]

Found it:

The LSAT is not curved - it is equated. That is, the difficulty of the questions is determined by giving them in experimental sections of previous tests (this is why there is an experimental section). That known difficulty is then used to set the scoring key so that any given score correlates to the same level of performance across all tests. (The "margin of error" that LSAC releases with your test results is a description of the statistical certainty of this correlation.)

This is important because it adjusts for any demographic differences that may occur between test administrations due to economic fluctuations or preferences for a certain time of year. If the test was simply curved, one could play the system by determining which administration was likely to have the most lenient curve. Instead, all administrations have identically difficult tests, within LSAC's stated margin of error.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=140100

hmmm. not entirely satisfying, but thanks

So i guess the real question is how badly people sucked on that games section in a prior administration. LOL!

[akili]

Fuck, now I remember babies and ladders and if that is confirmed real, I am confirmed fucked.

So, what's the verdict? I'm also hoping babies/ladders were experimental.

It was real.

[alexandra]

The stained glass didn't bother me so much, it was the damned conference that got me.

I normally have no problem with the RC, but the Jewett passage threw me.

Also, I had three LRs, so I don't have them separated to clearly in my brain. Gah. It hurts.

it was both for me. stained glass killlllllllllllllled. I easily ate of 10 minutes with that before I was like "damn, I'm screwed" and moved on

SAME.

[bartleby]

EDITED BY MODS: Do not discuss specifics of the exams. That includes strategy/how you answered certain games.

[kwais]

Found it:

The LSAT is not curved - it is equated. That is, the difficulty of the questions is determined by giving them in experimental sections of previous tests (this is why there is an experimental section). That known difficulty is then used to set the scoring key so that any given score correlates to the same level of performance across all tests. (The "margin of error" that LSAC releases with your test results is a description of the statistical certainty of this correlation.)

This is important because it adjusts for any demographic differences that may occur between test administrations due to economic fluctuations or preferences for a certain time of year. If the test was simply curved, one could play the system by determining which administration was likely to have the most lenient curve. Instead, all administrations have identically difficult tests, within LSAC's stated margin of error.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=140100

hmmm. not entirely satisfying, but thanks

So i guess the real question is how badly people sucked on that games section in a prior administration. LOL!

hopefully as terrible as us

[LHC]

LR RC LR LR LG

While taking the third LR I kept on thinking to myself, this section feels so weird. Some of the questions felt off, and there were two sets of two questions that shared the same passage, and I hadn't seen those in any of the recent preptests. It sounds like that was truly was the experimental if the test was truly a 102 test (as the other two LR were 26 and this one was 25).

Initial reactions? It felt harder than my last few (recent test) preptests. I skipped question 6 on the stained grass LG and was able to finish the section in time, coming back to guess on 6. RC was hard but I feel fairly confident I didn't totally bomb it. No idea how I did on LR, with three sections they all blur in my mind!!!

[Redamon1]

LGs were so hard/time-consuming I had to guess on more Qs than ever before.

So much so that I can't remember how many questions the last game had. Anyone remember?

[bartleby]

Yeah, but I think they use the easy experimental and just pick out questions from that to fill up 1-10 in future tests. They probably mix and match questions from diff. experimental to create a future section of the bane of my existence.

[Jader]

Can anyone who has been around here longer tell us how normal this "THIS IS THE HARDEST TEST EVER 15+ CURVE" thing is? Is this test really that different?


I searched the forms and the quick thing I found was a thread speculating the June curve that actually seemed to be accurate and reasonable.

[Redamon1]

LR RC LR LR LG

While taking the third LR I kept on thinking to myself, this section feels so weird. Some of the questions felt off, and there were two sets of two questions that shared the same passage, and I hadn't seen those in any of the recent preptests. It sounds like that was truly was the experimental if the test was truly a 102 test (as the other two LR were 26 and this one was 25).

Initial reactions? It felt harder than my last few (recent test) preptests. I skipped question 6 on the stained grass LG and was able to finish the section in time, coming back to guess on 6. RC was hard but I feel fairly confident I didn't totally bomb it. No idea how I did on LR, with three sections they all blur in my mind!!!

My LRs didn't have 2 questions on a the same prompt.

[Arturo]

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