June 2016 - Waiter's (+170 or bust) GRAY DAY HAS AWOKEN FROM ITS SLUMBER Forum

[somewhatferal]

Feelin' like a #NoScore day.

[dodint]

My wife is sitting for the GRE in two weeks. I asked her when she got her score back, and she replied "immediately." Wow.
Asked her how often they administer the test, she said "Every week."

*mind blown*

To be fair, 600,000 people took the GRE last year, as opposed to the just over 100,000 LSATs administered in the same time frame.

Not sure where you're going with that. LSAT should take longer because it has fewer test takers?

I get the 4x a year thing, my criticism there is mostly facetious. Even the instant scoring part is tongue and cheek due the nature of the scoring process. But having it still a PBT in 2016 is archaic. CBT should cut the scoring down to 7 days instead of 24, I would bet.

I think having the testing infrastructure is a concern. To continue offering the 4 tests a year format, they would need test centers that have large banks of computers, not saying it isn't possible, just adds some complexity. The GRE/GMAT can get a way with this because they offer a lot more tests with a smaller turnout at each one. They could also go away from the 4 tests a year format but that would be a huge shake up.

The number of computers could be a valid concern, yeah. The side effect of that would likely be that you'd have more test centers with fewer students per. Either that or a BYOD model where you'd have to load proctor software onto a personal computer. I've done this before with tech certifications and online classes. As an IT guy, though, that'd be a bit of a nightmare if there is any lag on the WLAN.

The one unique thing I like about the LSAT is that the tests are published to be used as PTs. You'd lose that if it became a rolling enrollment test, most likely. You'd have something like CISSP where there would be 1000s of questions and everyone's exam would be different. Imagine the drama that would ensue with that.

[BirdLawExpert]

My wife is sitting for the GRE in two weeks. I asked her when she got her score back, and she replied "immediately." Wow.
Asked her how often they administer the test, she said "Every week."

*mind blown*

To be fair, 600,000 people took the GRE last year, as opposed to the just over 100,000 LSATs administered in the same time frame.

Not sure where you're going with that. LSAT should take longer because it has fewer test takers?

I get the 4x a year thing, my criticism there is mostly facetious. Even the instant scoring part is tongue and cheek due the nature of the scoring process. But having it still a PBT in 2016 is archaic. CBT should cut the scoring down to 7 days instead of 24, I would bet.

Clearly I'm talking about the frequency of administrations, not the time it takes to receive scores. Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

[khaleesi01]

You also get to use a computer for the GRE.

As Devils Advocate I'd say that you could easily run the LSAT through a ScanTron at the test center and give an non-validated raw score the day of the test at most testing centers. I took it at a large state school, I'm certain they have at least one ScanTron around.

Or just, you know, take the LSAT as a CBT. The CISSP exam shifted from PBT to CBT and I knew I passed that immediately. In the old days it took 6 weeks.

Judging by the survey questions that LSAC asked they'll be doing CBT soon enough, next 24 months if I had to guess.

Dude! CISSP = IT God...I have Sec+ but work with a few CISSPers. Why jump to law? Interested in Cyber law?

[benwyatt]

You also get to use a computer for the GRE.

As Devils Advocate I'd say that you could easily run the LSAT through a ScanTron at the test center and give an non-validated raw score the day of the test at most testing centers. I took it at a large state school, I'm certain they have at least one ScanTron around.

Or just, you know, take the LSAT as a CBT. The CISSP exam shifted from PBT to CBT and I knew I passed that immediately. In the old days it took 6 weeks.

Judging by the survey questions that LSAC asked they'll be doing CBT soon enough, next 24 months if I had to guess.

But that doesn't let them five you the cancellation window. Also scantrons are really unreliable tech and scanning all of those would be insane. I used to score tests in my old job and there are so many more issues than you are aware of

Okay. But they're using ScanTron, they're already scanning an 'insane' number of tests in the process anyway.

Uh huh, I know this. I was also using scantron and what i'm telling you is that the error rate is extremely high and having some fuckwitted lsat taker sitting there wanting a score while i deal with a shitty scantron machine is not going to work out.

[meeseeks]

My wife is sitting for the GRE in two weeks. I asked her when she got her score back, and she replied "immediately." Wow.
Asked her how often they administer the test, she said "Every week."

*mind blown*

To be fair, 600,000 people took the GRE last year, as opposed to the just over 100,000 LSATs administered in the same time frame.

Not sure where you're going with that. LSAT should take longer because it has fewer test takers?

I get the 4x a year thing, my criticism there is mostly facetious. Even the instant scoring part is tongue and cheek due the nature of the scoring process. But having it still a PBT in 2016 is archaic. CBT should cut the scoring down to 7 days instead of 24, I would bet.

Clearly I'm talking about the frequency of administrations, not the time it takes to receive scores. Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

I agree. The only people that would really benefit from a change are those on this forum that spend the entire time obsessing over their score. Personally I would rather wait than have the cost of the test skyrocket while they try and pay for the changes.

[sluggla]

My wife is sitting for the GRE in two weeks. I asked her when she got her score back, and she replied "immediately." Wow.
Asked her how often they administer the test, she said "Every week."

*mind blown*

To be fair, 600,000 people took the GRE last year, as opposed to the just over 100,000 LSATs administered in the same time frame.

Not sure where you're going with that. LSAT should take longer because it has fewer test takers?

I get the 4x a year thing, my criticism there is mostly facetious. Even the instant scoring part is tongue and cheek due the nature of the scoring process. But having it still a PBT in 2016 is archaic. CBT should cut the scoring down to 7 days instead of 24, I would bet.

Clearly I'm talking about the frequency of administrations, not the time it takes to receive scores. Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

I agree. The only people that would really benefit from a change are those on this forum that spend the entire time obsessing over their score. Personally I would rather wait than have the cost of the test skyrocket while they try and pay for the changes.

Agreed.

Can you imagine the anxiety this crowd would have if you sat for the first administration of a reformatted LSAT?

[BirdLawExpert]

Guys can we get back to talking about how inadequate you all are, this on topic stuff is bad karma.

[rska884]

Guys can we get back to talking about how inadequate you all are, this on topic stuff is bad karma.

+150

[dodint]

Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

I'm still applying to the 2016 cycle and have also been accepted to a second masters at PSU (for my current career, IT InfoSec). I can't launch off my application to my law school until the LSAT score is posted, meaning the time between acceptance and attending the law school will be less than ~4 weeks. So I'll either need to defer at PSU and/or continue to string them along until I hear back from the law school. Yeah, it's a unique situation and affects a very small number of people, but you asked. I just want to plan my life.
The broad answer is "because technology would allow for a more streamlined process so move on already" but you'll just ignore that on its own grounds. But as I said, I predict the LSAT will be CBT in the next two years anyway.

You also get to use a computer for the GRE.

As Devils Advocate I'd say that you could easily run the LSAT through a ScanTron at the test center and give an non-validated raw score the day of the test at most testing centers. I took it at a large state school, I'm certain they have at least one ScanTron around.

Or just, you know, take the LSAT as a CBT. The CISSP exam shifted from PBT to CBT and I knew I passed that immediately. In the old days it took 6 weeks.

Judging by the survey questions that LSAC asked they'll be doing CBT soon enough, next 24 months if I had to guess.

Dude! CISSP = IT God...I have Sec+ but work with a few CISSPers. Why jump to law? Interested in Cyber law?

Yeah, either Cybersecurity Law or Digital Privacy law. I'm trying to get back into the military as a JAG but if that doesn't work out, I think I can make it doing either of those disciplines. If nothing pans out I'll just stay in my current career and use my JD as a teaching credential. GI Bill is footing the bill for school so there is very little downside.

[sluggla]

Guys can we get back to talking about how inadequate you all are, this on topic stuff is bad karma.

Self esteem is for chumps.

[meeseeks]

Guys can we get back to talking about how inadequate you all are, this on topic stuff is bad karma.

http://imgur.com/YEHZxd8

[forum_user]

My wife is sitting for the GRE in two weeks. I asked her when she got her score back, and she replied "immediately." Wow.
Asked her how often they administer the test, she said "Every week."

*mind blown*

To be fair, 600,000 people took the GRE last year, as opposed to the just over 100,000 LSATs administered in the same time frame.

Not sure where you're going with that. LSAT should take longer because it has fewer test takers?

I get the 4x a year thing, my criticism there is mostly facetious. Even the instant scoring part is tongue and cheek due the nature of the scoring process. But having it still a PBT in 2016 is archaic. CBT should cut the scoring down to 7 days instead of 24, I would bet.

Clearly I'm talking about the frequency of administrations, not the time it takes to receive scores. Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

I agree. The only people that would really benefit from a change are those on this forum that spend the entire time obsessing over their score. Personally I would rather wait than have the cost of the test skyrocket while they try and pay for the changes.

Agreed.

Can you imagine the anxiety this crowd would have if you sat for the first administration of a reformatted LSAT?

Although I don't see why they don't have some kind of expedited call-ahead option where you pay an extra hundred bucks and get your score read out to you as an unofficial thing. Like at this point they definitely know our scores, it's just a matter of uploading everything to the system I imagine.

[khaleesi01]

Yeah, either Cybersecurity Law or Digital Privacy law. I'm trying to get back into the military as a JAG but if that doesn't work out, I think I can make it doing either of those disciplines. If nothing pans out I'll just stay in my current career and use my JD as a teaching credential. GI Bill is footing the bill for school so there is very little downside.

What branch and how many years of prior service? I'm currently serving ... so happy about the GI Bill, but I'm only eligible for 50%. Still, I'm happy I won't have to pay sticker for any school I'm considering. JAG would be dope! Good luck to you.

[Sarastro]

Guys can we get back to talking about how inadequate you all are, this on topic stuff is bad karma.

This. I feel much more comfortable discussing how my life will be ruined in a few hours.

[rska884]

My wife is sitting for the GRE in two weeks. I asked her when she got her score back, and she replied "immediately." Wow.
Asked her how often they administer the test, she said "Every week."

*mind blown*

To be fair, 600,000 people took the GRE last year, as opposed to the just over 100,000 LSATs administered in the same time frame.

Not sure where you're going with that. LSAT should take longer because it has fewer test takers?

I get the 4x a year thing, my criticism there is mostly facetious. Even the instant scoring part is tongue and cheek due the nature of the scoring process. But having it still a PBT in 2016 is archaic. CBT should cut the scoring down to 7 days instead of 24, I would bet.

Clearly I'm talking about the frequency of administrations, not the time it takes to receive scores. Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

I agree. The only people that would really benefit from a change are those on this forum that spend the entire time obsessing over their score. Personally I would rather wait than have the cost of the test skyrocket while they try and pay for the changes.

Agreed.

Can you imagine the anxiety this crowd would have if you sat for the first administration of a reformatted LSAT?

Although I don't see why they don't have some kind of expedited call-ahead option where you pay an extra hundred bucks and get your score read out to you as an unofficial thing. Like at this point they definitely know our scores, it's just a matter of uploading everything to the system I imagine.

OK, so it's unofficial. What happens if they get it wrong? Do you get refunded?

How many people are they hiring to man those phones? Do they already have the staff to coordinate this, or are they going to be relying on enough people spending $100 for an extra few hour head start on nothing to fund part time salaries for a large number of people?

I'm with Bird, I don't get why there's any need to spend large amounts of money and potentially inconvenience people by reducing the number of test centers and/or increasing the cost of administration. Sure, there are very unique one-off situations, but making changes to accommodate those at the expense of everyone else seems like a bad idea to me.

As anxious as y'all are, you get absolutely no benefit from learning early. Use this extra time to go find some Xanax or something.

[BirdLawExpert]

Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

I'm still applying to the 2016 cycle and have also been accepted to a second masters at PSU (for my current career, IT InfoSec). I can't launch off my application to my law school until the LSAT score is posted, meaning the time between acceptance and attending the law school will be less than ~4 weeks. So I'll either need to defer at PSU and/or continue to string them along until I hear back from the law school. Yeah, it's a unique situation and affects a very small number of people, but you asked. I just want to plan my life.
The broad answer is "because technology would allow for a more streamlined process so move on already" but you'll just ignore that on its own grounds. But as I said, I predict the LSAT will be CBT in the next two years anyway.

But again, there are many schools that understand this predicament and will make accommodations for you because they know the testing timeline. I'm not arguing against technology, but you're ignoring cost concerns. A streamlined process doesn't make them more money, so there's no incentive to streamline the process. Any scoring personnel they can eliminate will be replaced by more expensive employees hired to make and maintain the computer programs and systems. There is no real incentive to alter the test.

[dodint]

Yeah, either Cybersecurity Law or Digital Privacy law. I'm trying to get back into the military as a JAG but if that doesn't work out, I think I can make it doing either of those disciplines. If nothing pans out I'll just stay in my current career and use my JD as a teaching credential. GI Bill is footing the bill for school so there is very little downside.

What branch and how many years of prior service? I'm currently serving ... so happy about the GI Bill, but I'm only eligible for 50%. Still, I'm happy I won't have to pay sticker for any school I'm considering. JAG would be dope! Good luck to you.

Thanks, same to you!

I was a Marine for about six years, did Iraq and Afghan. I work for the Dept of the Army as a civilian now, wanting to enter their Active Duty JAG program when the time comes. The I can retire in 14 years as a Major or Lt. Col and then spend the rest of my life consulting, teaching, whatever.

[momoyome]

Also if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It takes a while to get scores back, sure, but in what way does that inconvenience you? It's built into the admissions calendar at this point, so there's no institutional disadvantage to applicants, the only real inconvenience is that maybe you have to wait an extra couple of weeks to structure a targeted personal statement or two? I don't know, it doesn't seem like there's an urgent reason (or any reason at all, really) to spend millions of dollars completely restructuring their test.

I'm still applying to the 2016 cycle and have also been accepted to a second masters at PSU (for my current career, IT InfoSec). I can't launch off my application to my law school until the LSAT score is posted, meaning the time between acceptance and attending the law school will be less than ~4 weeks. So I'll either need to defer at PSU and/or continue to string them along until I hear back from the law school. Yeah, it's a unique situation and affects a very small number of people, but you asked. I just want to plan my life.
The broad answer is "because technology would allow for a more streamlined process so move on already" but you'll just ignore that on its own grounds. But as I said, I predict the LSAT will be CBT in the next two years anyway.

You also get to use a computer for the GRE.

As Devils Advocate I'd say that you could easily run the LSAT through a ScanTron at the test center and give an non-validated raw score the day of the test at most testing centers. I took it at a large state school, I'm certain they have at least one ScanTron around.

Or just, you know, take the LSAT as a CBT. The CISSP exam shifted from PBT to CBT and I knew I passed that immediately. In the old days it took 6 weeks.

Judging by the survey questions that LSAC asked they'll be doing CBT soon enough, next 24 months if I had to guess.

Dude! CISSP = IT God...I have Sec+ but work with a few CISSPers. Why jump to law? Interested in Cyber law?

Yeah, either Cybersecurity Law or Digital Privacy law. I'm trying to get back into the military as a JAG but if that doesn't work out, I think I can make it doing either of those disciplines. If nothing pans out I'll just stay in my current career and use my JD as a teaching credential. GI Bill is footing the bill for school so there is very little downside.

You're actually doing a masters in infosec? why not wait for Stanford/USC to have their programs up in the next few years? Most programs aren't great right now.

[Hennessy]

Guys can we get back to talking about how inadequate you all are, this on topic stuff is bad karma.

This. I feel much more comfortable discussing how my life will be ruined in a few hours.

i've felt good for weeks and now that we're finally getting close, the feeling that i got a 140 is more and more palpable

[dodint]

But again, there are many schools that understand this predicament and will make accommodations for you because they know the testing timeline. I'm not arguing against technology, but you're ignoring cost concerns. A streamlined process doesn't make them more money, so there's no incentive to streamline the process. Any scoring personnel they can eliminate will be replaced by more expensive employees hired to make and maintain the computer programs and systems. There is no real incentive to alter the test.

I'm arguing to pass the time, it's the waiting thread. I appreciate the discourse.

I disagree about the costs. Initial implementation would certainly require an investment. But once it's up and running they'd need much less staff to administer and grade the test. Most of the work would be in test development. Your stance sounds a lot like when people first heard of virtualization and argued against it, and now it's the standard.

I ask myself "Will law candidates sit down and put pencil to paper in 2050?" The answer is a resounding "No" to me. Then I ask when the transition will take place. I see the absolute earliest being in 24 months. Maybe it'll take 10 years, I don't know and frankly don't have a stake in it. But it's coming.

[bmathers]

Feelin' like a #NoScore day.

Stop being a negative Nancy. We are just now getting in the "grey period" of the day. Last time I got my score at 4:33 pm

[dodint]

You're actually doing a masters in infosec? why not wait for Stanford/USC to have their programs up in the next few years? Most programs aren't great right now.

I'm already in mid-career for InfoSec, the degree actually won't do much for me. The certifications and experience are much more valuable. I'm only doing the PSU InfoSec masters because it's completely online and completely free (GI Bill, I'll actually make money thanks to the housing and book stipends) so I have nothing to lose but time and effort. And I'm not doing anything else. Law school was always what I wanted to do and never got to, so I'm throwing my hat in that ring one last time before I decide which road to go down with the last of my GI Bill.

[pretzeltime]

good title change Henny, FFS is all I can rly say

eta JK I read that wrong and have no idea what F S S means

[forum_user]

OK, so it's unofficial. What happens if they get it wrong? Do you get refunded?

How many people are they hiring to man those phones? Do they already have the staff to coordinate this, or are they going to be relying on enough people spending $100 for an extra few hour head start on nothing to fund part time salaries for a large number of people?

I'm with Bird, I don't get why there's any need to spend large amounts of money and potentially inconvenience people by reducing the number of test centers and/or increasing the cost of administration. Sure, there are very unique one-off situations, but making changes to accommodate those at the expense of everyone else seems like a bad idea to me.

As anxious as y'all are, you get absolutely no benefit from learning early. Use this extra time to go find some Xanax or something.

If it's just an automated system they would need very little manpower, like you just call the hotline, dial in your LSAC number, and they list off your score. Sure there's no material benefit, but clearly the emotional cost isn't nil--and we are customers, after all. Law schools are already accepting the GRE which drew the scorn of LSAC but the support of pretty much every other accredited law school. They're going to have to start acting like they exist in a competitive marketplace eventually.