real The Official December 2016 Waiters Group - Patience is a Virtue Forum

[Nik9639]

Removed.

[firegal360]

Thanks for the responses guys! Ill be looking forward to February 2017 haha!

[Pozzo]

PT 79 needs to come out A$AP so that I can attempt this virus game...

Someone on 7Sage said it was similar to PT 6 Game 4, the Islands game so you can try that game until the test is released.

Oh, that game is fun! Don't remember why it took me nearly 12 minutes, though... I'll take another gander at it.

Watched the PT6 game on 7sage yesterday, want to say it's loosely similar but not really - island game had multiple connections for game pieces; whereas the virus game was still sequential but with an ability (and forced to in a spot) split the sequence. I'm definitely ready to get another look at it though.

Yeah, you would know best since you actually took the test. Would you say if you stared at the rules for ~30 seconds-1 minute you would figure out a favorable set up? Or is it a grind it game with tons of hypotheticals?

Said this in the waiter's thread, but it took me 3 questions of brute forcing my way through it to come up with a serviceable game board - one of the game pieces had to split the sequence into two rows from one - I think it took doing multiple hypotheticals and applying the rules to get to the point where you can see how they fit together. Maybe without the pressure of an actual administration you could get a game board before hitting the questions, but I couldn't yesterday and I had ~11/12 minutes for the game itself. Wasn't comfortable enough to split the game board/determine different universes. Just left my base one reasonably open - the redeeming factor was that there was only 6 pieces.

It may have been like PT77 game 3 in that the premise was weird, but not necessarily extremely difficult. The questions also weren't anything crazy... it did definitely have a (loose) game board unlike PT77.

Same I wasn't able to derive any game board until really looking at the questions, brute forcing, my way through and kinda figuring out how to set one up and how the game works. I had about the same time as you too. If it wasn't timed probably would have been able to figure it out more confidently in like 15 min or so.

I agree here. There wasn't much you could do by way of a game board on this one, IMO. I think what made it challenging was that it didn't totally fit a specific type of game. Kinda sequencing, kinda pattern, but not 100% either. One of the rules gave you a good chunk to work with, and then the questions helped direct more complete setups per question. I honestly think if you grasped the game conceptually, the questions weren't unusually challenging.

[Deardevil]

Finished an RC set with three minutes to spare for once. -5 still stings, though.

[Dodocogon]

I agree here. There wasn't much you could do by way of a game board on this one, IMO. I think what made it challenging was that it didn't totally fit a specific type of game. Kinda sequencing, kinda pattern, but not 100% either. One of the rules gave you a good chunk to work with, and then the questions helped direct more complete setups per question. I honestly think if you grasped the game conceptually, the questions weren't unusually challenging.

Definitely - Similar to 77 pattern game in that way. That might be the trend - balancing difficult game types with reasonable questions.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I agree here. There wasn't much you could do by way of a game board on this one, IMO. I think what made it challenging was that it didn't totally fit a specific type of game. Kinda sequencing, kinda pattern, but not 100% either. One of the rules gave you a good chunk to work with, and then the questions helped direct more complete setups per question. I honestly think if you grasped the game conceptually, the questions weren't unusually challenging.

Definitely - Similar to 77 pattern game in that way. That might be the trend - balancing difficult game types with reasonable questions.

Im going to redo that game and PT 6 game 4 and see how they were similar. But, I can see that as a common trend

[Pozzo]

I agree here. There wasn't much you could do by way of a game board on this one, IMO. I think what made it challenging was that it didn't totally fit a specific type of game. Kinda sequencing, kinda pattern, but not 100% either. One of the rules gave you a good chunk to work with, and then the questions helped direct more complete setups per question. I honestly think if you grasped the game conceptually, the questions weren't unusually challenging.

Definitely - Similar to 77 pattern game in that way. That might be the trend - balancing difficult game types with reasonable questions.

Im going to redo that game and PT 6 game 4 and see how they were similar. But, I can see that as a common trend

I think the comparison to 77 game 3 is more apt than 6. With a twist, of course.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I agree here. There wasn't much you could do by way of a game board on this one, IMO. I think what made it challenging was that it didn't totally fit a specific type of game. Kinda sequencing, kinda pattern, but not 100% either. One of the rules gave you a good chunk to work with, and then the questions helped direct more complete setups per question. I honestly think if you grasped the game conceptually, the questions weren't unusually challenging.

Definitely - Similar to 77 pattern game in that way. That might be the trend - balancing difficult game types with reasonable questions.

Im going to redo that game and PT 6 game 4 and see how they were similar. But, I can see that as a common trend

I think the comparison to 77 game 3 is more apt than 6. With a twist, of course.

Okay, I will check that one out for sure too.

[SunDevil14]

PT 31: RC -2 with 2 minutes to spare
LG: selection of advanced linear, pure sequencing, grouping, and advanced techniques (powerscore classification) -0 in 35 minutes.

Drilling LR later today.

Does anyone find the Modern LR sections more difficult than LR sections from the 90's and early 00's

[Rupert Pupkin]

I picked up the Manhattan LG Book and LSAT Trainer today. Going to start grinding tomorrow again just in case I need to re-take. And hey, if I don't have to that would be awesome, but rather be prepared. Can't lose three weeks of doing nothing, might as well prep relentlessly again.

Prepared for the worst, but praying for the best.

[Nik9639]

Removed.

[tskela]

I picked up the Manhattan LG Book and LSAT Trainer today. Going to start grinding tomorrow again just in case I need to re-take. And hey, if I don't have to that would be awesome, but rather be prepared. Can't lose three weeks of doing nothing, might as well prep relentlessly again.

Prepared for the worst, but praying for the best.

I'm wondering what everyone's take is on this.

I'm thinking there's a <50% chance I'll retake in December and not sure whether I should be studying these next 3 weeks. I just don't wanna lose skills due to inactivity

[Deardevil]

I'm thinking there's a <50% chance I'll retake in December and not sure whether I should be studying these next 3 weeks. I just don't wanna lose skills due to inactivity

I say go for it. Nothing to lose and everything to gain/retain.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I picked up the Manhattan LG Book and LSAT Trainer today. Going to start grinding tomorrow again just in case I need to re-take. And hey, if I don't have to that would be awesome, but rather be prepared. Can't lose three weeks of doing nothing, might as well prep relentlessly again.

Prepared for the worst, but praying for the best.

I'm wondering what everyone's take is on this.

I'm thinking there's a <50% chance I'll retake in December and not sure whether I should be studying these next 3 weeks. I just don't wanna lose skills due to inactivity

Yeah man, its not that I don't feel confident in my score, but its just that anything can happen and there is only 2 months and a week left as of today, and if you are going to take December you want to maximize every bit of time you can especially if you can't study full time and are working or in school (Grad school like me). Figured I might as well keep grinding relentlessly and if I don't have to retake FUCK YEAH and if I do, at least I will be best prepared to take down my next take.

I say go for it. Nothing to lose and everything to gain/retain.

^ exactly my view. Yeah you lose some time, money (if you buy more prep stuff), but that cost is lower than not being prepared for DEC in my eyes. And I think you will feel pumped as hell if you grind and then realize you don't have too anymore. I said I was going to take this week off, but I am just really motivated to crush it and want to give it everything I got

[dietcoked]

Hey, ya'll. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be joining you guys in December (which means I probably won't be able to apply to law school this cycle - which hurts a little less each day I come to grips with it). What are you September re-takers going to do to prepare? Are any of ya'll canceling? I'm sitll not sure about canceling or not. Still trying to come off the shock that was that lacquer passage.

[ngogirl12]

Any advice on Flaw questions?

I already went through 7Sage and Trainer. Today I skimmed the chapter in the Manhattan guide (which I didn't find too helpful other than try to prephrase the flaw before going into the questions).

My first set of questions I kicked ass on. Second set I didn't do so great. Today I still did horribly -12/43 questions.

((((

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Hey, ya'll. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be joining you guys in December (which means I probably won't be able to apply to law school this cycle - which hurts a little less each day I come to grips with it). What are you September re-takers going to do to prepare? Are any of ya'll canceling? I'm sitll not sure about canceling or not. Still trying to come off the shock that was that lacquer passage.

For September I used the Bibles.. So now I just got the Trainer and Manhattan LG. Going to go through the LR/RC out of the trainer and the Manhattan LG. As I go through LG I will drill by type and continue to do full sections and PTs every week. Goal is to crush those two books in ~2 weeks. I will still use the bibles as reference points especially the LR Bible.

[SunDevil14]

PT 31: RC -2 with 2 minutes to spare

Good job! I was doing PT31 as well today, whole thing timed. Got 165, not too bad considering that I was in a obnoxiously loud place with people stopping by to say hi all the time. But still a lot to work on in a next 2 months...

I am drilling the sections individually.

RC: -2
LG: -0
LR: -3

Going to do the second LR section Today.

I'm sure many would agree that for whatever reason, drilling individual sections seems to be easier than taking the full test. Not sure I want to throw 4 individual sections as if it were a full test on 7sage

[Deardevil]

Any advice on Flaw questions?

I think flaw questions have the most discernible ACs, so with more exposure, you'll be able to detect the right ones easier.

Common Fallacies

Circular reasoning.
Accepting the truth of what needs to be proven; in other words, the premise and conclusion are the same, and answers are crystal clear:

-It assumes what it seeks to establish
-The premise restates the conclusion in different words

Straw man.
Attacking opponent's position by making the argument weaker (a straw is built so that it is easier to KO).

-Refutes a distorted version of the opponent's argument
-Distorts the opponent's position, making it easier to challenge

Term shift.
The author changes a [key] term in the stimulus to mess up his/her argument; the right answer would be something like the following:

-The argument assumes two different meanings for "value"
-A term has an ambiguous meaning

Time shift.
There may have been country invasions in the past; doesn't necessarily mean they'll 100% occur in the 21st century.

-Treats a past event as though it may happen again
-Infers what is true of the past is true of the future

Ad hominem.
Attacking the source instead of the argument (pretty much #debatenight); this one is more obvious, imo, and answers vary, but not by much:

-The argument is directed at the opponent and not the claim
-The author questions the critics' position instead of addressing their issue

Conditionality.
Mistaken reversals and negations!

-It mistakenly assumes a sufficient to be a necessary condition
-It mistakenly assumes a necessary to be a sufficient condition

Contradiction.

-It bases a conclusion on premises that are inconsistent
-The argument assumes something that it denies, making it contradictory

Analogy.
Treats two events as though they are similar to compare.

-Treats two cases that are different as if they are the same
-Uses a false analogy when it is not known the two items are comparable

Lack of evidence.
Treats insufficient evidence as sufficient to prove something (a cake that is not bad is not necessarily good; know your logical opposites).

-Takes lack of evidence to prove something is false to conclude that it's true
-Treats failure to prove that aliens exist as evidence that they really do not

Appeal to authority.

-The argument appeals to authority instead of justifying its conclusion
-It relies on the judgment of an expert when the areas of expertise is irrelevant

Composition and division.

-Assumes that each part is true because the whole is true
-It infers that each student in one school has that characteristic because most students in the country has it

Causal relationship.

-Assumes there is causality when only correlation is involved
-Fails to consider that another factor can contribute to both occurrences

For parallel flaws, identify the flaw first; often, that's all you really need to do to get to TCR.

Non-LSAT Example and Breakdown

Hillary: I have been preparing most of my life to become this nation's first female president.
Donald: So what you're saying is that in the 30 years you have been preparing, nothing changed.
Vote for me! Make America great again!

What is the error in Mr. Trump's argument?

(A) Trump confuses the term "preparing" to mean something else.
(B) He assumes what he sets out to prove.
(C) Trump appeals to the emotion of fear that Clinton will not provide anything for America.
(D) He criticizes the source rather than responding directly to Clinton's statement.
(E) Trump refashions Clinton's claim, thereby making it easier to tear apart.

(A) is wrong; there is no confusion with the meaning of the word "preparing."
(B) is wrong; his premise and conclusion are not identical.
(C) is wrong; Trump does play on the idea that Clinton hasn't done anything in the past,
but it doesn't mean she can't start now, and nothing's "scary" about his proposition (well, maybe a little).
(D) is close; he is trying to humiliate or undermine "Secretary Clinton,"
but he does acknowledge her claim rather than ignore it
(this would be TCR if the Trump says s/t like "She cares more about her hair than this election," which would be unsurprising).
(E) is it; had he not mention the first part, Clinton's claim would supposedly not be weakened ("so what you're saying" also gives it away).

[nimbus cloud]

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[dietcoked]

Hey, ya'll. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be joining you guys in December (which means I probably won't be able to apply to law school this cycle - which hurts a little less each day I come to grips with it). What are you September re-takers going to do to prepare? Are any of ya'll canceling? I'm sitll not sure about canceling or not. Still trying to come off the shock that was that lacquer passage.

Why not? It's not too late to apply with the December score, especially if you have everything else prepared by the time you get your score back.

It's just a little late in the cycle and with my sub-par GPA, I need all the help I can find.

[Nik9639]

Removed.

[Nik9639]

Removed.

[lgsb2014]

How are you all scoring 160+?
I'm barely at 150 and hoping to break 160 soon.

[Nik9639]

Removed.