Is this forum part of the law school scam? Forum

[09042014]

also these threads have happened SO many times. I've only been around for a couple of months and I'm bored with the snowflake 0L threads. It's old, and no one listens, so of course everyone just mocks them now.

What if we sprinkled in talk of hot women?

5) I've been trolling here since you were highschool.

I remember when I used to be a school. It was complicated having all those kids inside me.

Leonardo di TunaCan School for Gifted Oil Riggers

[Bikeflip]

5) I've been trolling here since you were highschool.

I remember when I used to be a school. It was complicated having all those kids inside me.

And that's how BJ ended up with an ankle bracelet.

[KatyMarie]

The evolution of TLS in this regard is a good thing for the most part. It's good because there is more info out there now and applicants should have that info to make an informed decision.
The problem that I see, and why DF's cringe-worthy tirades are so annoying, is the lack of self-awareness on the part of TLS mega-posters.

It's like those high school sophomores who couldn't wait to see the new freshmen so they could tell them what noobs they are and then when they were seniors, omg the sophomores are such noobs. Oh look, I'm a college freshman now, high schoolers are such noobs, if only they'd listen to the sweet advice of their elders. Oh hey I'm a 1L, listen up you stupid noob 0Ls, you don't know shit. Now these TLSers are in biglaw and, shocker, it's tough. The hours are long, the work is unglamorous. This info was available from practicing attorneys for years, but they ignored it for the same reason that their current "listen up noobs" garbage is going to fall on deaf ears: it sounds like what it is, the tunnel vision of someone who is currently where they are and is seeking the ears of those right below them to bestow their sacred knowledge.
DF, IAFG and Rad and all them could be adding to the conversation in way that takes into account why people will continue to try to go to law school and chase biglaw and face the hardships attached to this path. They could help those people navigate that path as prepared as one can be. Instead we get this crap. I guarantee that two years from now, these posters will be in here calling first and second years in biglaw noobs who just don't get it and who will just not listen.
So stop calling the criticism of DF "0L butthurtedness." As the Dude said to Walter: DF, you are not wrong, you are just an asshole.

Agreed. It's a shame because for the most part, they seem like smart, accomplished people that actually do give a shit kinda about what happens to 0Ls. The information is good, but for some reason the lawyer megaposters refuse to distribute it in a way that people will listen. I don't know if law school just beats the humanity out of you until you can't treat people with respect or kindness anymore, but it sure seems like it sometimes.

If a freshman has to be worried about getting shoved into a locker every time they ask a senior a question, of course they're going to go elsewhere for advice.

People hardly ever listen to advice they don't want to hear.What approach do you suggest?

True, a lot of people aren't going to listen to what you say regardless of what you say or how you say it, but I think you're underestimating how many people do listen. I'd probably be taking out a lot more debt if I hadn't found TLS for one. I also didn't even think to look at what my monthly payment would be with different debt amounts before finding this website. It is good stuff.

What I'm mainly talking about is scaring the people away that really need the advice. It would be nice if people tried to not be an asshole when people post their questions/concerns without knowing much about the process, or when have bad preconceived notions about certain schools, legal employment numbers, whatever it is. People have to learn this stuff somehow, and they're doing their research if they come across here. I've seen so many instances on here of 0L's asking questions and lawyers getting on their case for not already knowing the answer. Or 0L's getting lambasted for suggesting a life plan that's unlikely to work out once you know a lot about different law schools, the legal market, etc.

I mean, do whatever you want, it's probably cathartic, but if the goal is getting more people to listen to you, being nicer and listening to people can go a long way. TLS doesn't have to be a nest of comfort, but it doesn't have to be a pit of fire to toss 0Ls into either.

[anyriotgirl]

True, a lot of people aren't going to listen to what you say regardless of what you say or how you say it, but I think you're underestimating how many people do listen. I'd probably be taking out a lot more debt if I hadn't found TLS for one. I also didn't even think to look at what my monthly payment would be with different debt amounts before finding this website. It is good stuff.

What I'm mainly talking about is scaring the people away that really need the advice. It would be nice if people tried to not be an asshole when people post their questions/concerns without knowing much about the process, or when have bad preconceived notions about certain schools, legal employment numbers, whatever it is. People have to learn this stuff somehow, and they're doing their research if they come across here. I've seen so many instances on here of 0L's asking questions and lawyers getting on their case for not already knowing the answer. Or 0L's getting lambasted for suggesting a life plan that's unlikely to work out once you know a lot about different law schools, the legal market, etc.

I mean, do whatever you want, it's probably cathartic, but if the goal is getting more people to listen to you, being nicer and listening to people can go a long way. TLS doesn't have to be a nest of comfort, but it doesn't have to be a pit of fire to toss 0Ls into either.

One of the first things that you'll learn working at a law firm is not to bother someone with questions if the information you're seeking is readily accessible to you. The lambasting you're talking about is basically just an outgrowth of that. It's really easy to find old threads on google or on forum search that have the answers to nearly any question that you might want to ask. For example, I didn't post a choosing thread. I've read a bunch of them from this cycle, and searched for threads from the last couple years on the schools I was looking at. I'm not special, so it was pretty easy to see what I would get told if I did make a thread. So, I didn't. I found the answer myself, because it already exists here. The people who can't figure that out basically deserve the reaction that they get. It's really not rocket science.

[KatyMarie]

It's a shame because for the most part, they seem like smart, accomplished people that actually do give a shit kinda about what happens to 0Ls. The information is good, but for some reason the lawyer megaposters refuse to distribute it in a way that people will listen. I don't know if law school just beats the humanity out of you until you can't treat people with respect or kindness anymore, but it sure seems like it sometimes.

As a 0L I've probably spent way, way too much time reading TLS and posters like IAFG (Hilarious, most apt profile pic I've ever seen), Justice Harlan (The most consistently high quality poster), rayiner, and even DF (Who posts an unbelievable amount but starts solid discussions) have taught me a lot about the world of legal employment. This doesn't even get into the posters who created the famous law school guides or help law students out like xeoh, arrow, cuse etc. The information we have access to as 0L's is phenomenal, and TLS megapoasters are a part of the reason why.

If a 0L decides not to read these threads b/c some of the comments are harsh they are missing out. It's the rare comment that is truly offensive.

I 100% agree that the information is phenomenal and megaposters are the ones making that happen. I've learned a lot from this website and I'm glad I found it, but on the flip side, I've also been warned away from this site by a practicing lawyer because "those people are crazy." I didn't listen to that obviously and just deal with the crazy, but I hate that other people are missing out on good information because they aren't willing to subject themselves to TLS hazing to get it. 0Ls are scared to ask 'stupid' questions on here because you're asking for 3 pages of getting chewed out and hopefully an answer.

I just think it could be toned down a little bit and people could be nicer to each other.

[Balthy]

I actually think most ppl on tls are pretty damn nice to 0Ls as long as they aren't being stubborn little shitheads. People are usually pretty encouraging and sympathetic. The worst i see is just straightforward advice like, "no, don't do this." The floodgates only open once someone shows how unwilling they are to even consider the advice.

Also, tls does contribute to the scam in one way. I really think that committing to a retake, working your ass off and landing a solid score makes someone more likely to go to law school, despite however long they've delayed enrollment. By that point they're looking for reasons to make use of their hard work and go, not reasons not to go.

[KatyMarie]

True, a lot of people aren't going to listen to what you say regardless of what you say or how you say it, but I think you're underestimating how many people do listen. I'd probably be taking out a lot more debt if I hadn't found TLS for one. I also didn't even think to look at what my monthly payment would be with different debt amounts before finding this website. It is good stuff.

What I'm mainly talking about is scaring the people away that really need the advice. It would be nice if people tried to not be an asshole when people post their questions/concerns without knowing much about the process, or when have bad preconceived notions about certain schools, legal employment numbers, whatever it is. People have to learn this stuff somehow, and they're doing their research if they come across here. I've seen so many instances on here of 0L's asking questions and lawyers getting on their case for not already knowing the answer. Or 0L's getting lambasted for suggesting a life plan that's unlikely to work out once you know a lot about different law schools, the legal market, etc.

I mean, do whatever you want, it's probably cathartic, but if the goal is getting more people to listen to you, being nicer and listening to people can go a long way. TLS doesn't have to be a nest of comfort, but it doesn't have to be a pit of fire to toss 0Ls into either.

One of the first things that you'll learn working at a law firm is not to bother someone with questions if the information you're seeking is readily accessible to you. The lambasting you're talking about is basically just an outgrowth of that. It's really easy to find old threads on google or on forum search that have the answers to nearly any question that you might want to ask. For example, I didn't post a choosing thread. I've read a bunch of them from this cycle, and searched for threads from the last couple years on the schools I was looking at. I'm not special, so it was pretty easy to see what I would get told if I did make a thread. So, I didn't. I found the answer myself, because it already exists here. The people who can't figure that out basically deserve the reaction that they get. It's really not rocket science.

I do, and I certainly wouldn't pester people with questions at work if I could find the information elsewhere. (Not like the attorneys would respond to my dumb questions anyway) I've also been here long enough that I know the protocol though, and I'm talking about people who don't. People who have posted here a handful of times, they post a question that looks totally stupid if you're familiar with this stuff, then get so much unnecessary shit for it. Then they sign off, get advice from their family, and go to a T2 law school with Biglaw goals.

I guess to me it's just not a matter of whether or not someone "deserves" a reaction or not. My point is just that people are more likely to listen to if the advice looks a lot more like help and less like judgment and doomsaying.

[bombaysippin]

True, a lot of people aren't going to listen to what you say regardless of what you say or how you say it, but I think you're underestimating how many people do listen. I'd probably be taking out a lot more debt if I hadn't found TLS for one. I also didn't even think to look at what my monthly payment would be with different debt amounts before finding this website. It is good stuff.

What I'm mainly talking about is scaring the people away that really need the advice. It would be nice if people tried to not be an asshole when people post their questions/concerns without knowing much about the process, or when have bad preconceived notions about certain schools, legal employment numbers, whatever it is. People have to learn this stuff somehow, and they're doing their research if they come across here. I've seen so many instances on here of 0L's asking questions and lawyers getting on their case for not already knowing the answer. Or 0L's getting lambasted for suggesting a life plan that's unlikely to work out once you know a lot about different law schools, the legal market, etc.

I mean, do whatever you want, it's probably cathartic, but if the goal is getting more people to listen to you, being nicer and listening to people can go a long way. TLS doesn't have to be a nest of comfort, but it doesn't have to be a pit of fire to toss 0Ls into either.

One of the first things that you'll learn working at a law firm is not to bother someone with questions if the information you're seeking is readily accessible to you. The lambasting you're talking about is basically just an outgrowth of that. It's really easy to find old threads on google or on forum search that have the answers to nearly any question that you might want to ask. For example, I didn't post a choosing thread. I've read a bunch of them from this cycle, and searched for threads from the last couple years on the schools I was looking at. I'm not special, so it was pretty easy to see what I would get told if I did make a thread. So, I didn't. I found the answer myself, because it already exists here. The people who can't figure that out basically deserve the reaction that they get. It's really not rocket science.

I do, and I certainly wouldn't pester people with questions at work if I could find the information elsewhere. (Not like the attorneys would respond to my dumb questions anyway) I've also been here long enough that I know the protocol though, and I'm talking about people who don't. People who have posted here a handful of times, they post a question that looks totally stupid if you're familiar with this stuff, then get so much unnecessary shit for it. Then they sign off, get advice from their family, and go to a T2 law school with Biglaw goals.

I guess to me it's just not a matter of whether or not someone "deserves" a reaction or not. My point is just that people are more likely to listen to if the advice looks a lot more like help and less like judgment and doomsaying.

I think it just gets tiring to be nice while saying the same things over and over so it's gotten to the point for certain people to do whatever. Like everyone has said already there will be people that listen and people that don't. Ultimately tls has helped more people than scared away...or at least that's what I'd like to believe.

Different folks different strokes

[NYSprague]

True, a lot of people aren't going to listen to what you say regardless of what you say or how you say it, but I think you're underestimating how many people do listen. I'd probably be taking out a lot more debt if I hadn't found TLS for one. I also didn't even think to look at what my monthly payment would be with different debt amounts before finding this website. It is good stuff.

What I'm mainly talking about is scaring the people away that really need the advice. It would be nice if people tried to not be an asshole when people post their questions/concerns without knowing much about the process, or when have bad preconceived notions about certain schools, legal employment numbers, whatever it is. People have to learn this stuff somehow, and they're doing their research if they come across here. I've seen so many instances on here of 0L's asking questions and lawyers getting on their case for not already knowing the answer. Or 0L's getting lambasted for suggesting a life plan that's unlikely to work out once you know a lot about different law schools, the legal market, etc.

I mean, do whatever you want, it's probably cathartic, but if the goal is getting more people to listen to you, being nicer and listening to people can go a long way. TLS doesn't have to be a nest of comfort, but it doesn't have to be a pit of fire to toss 0Ls into either.

One of the first things that you'll learn working at a law firm is not to bother someone with questions if the information you're seeking is readily accessible to you. The lambasting you're talking about is basically just an outgrowth of that. It's really easy to find old threads on google or on forum search that have the answers to nearly any question that you might want to ask. For example, I didn't post a choosing thread. I've read a bunch of them from this cycle, and searched for threads from the last couple years on the schools I was looking at. I'm not special, so it was pretty easy to see what I would get told if I did make a thread. So, I didn't. I found the answer myself, because it already exists here. The people who can't figure that out basically deserve the reaction that they get. It's really not rocket science.

I do, and I certainly wouldn't pester people with questions at work if I could find the information elsewhere. (Not like the attorneys would respond to my dumb questions anyway) I've also been here long enough that I know the protocol though, and I'm talking about people who don't. People who have posted here a handful of times, they post a question that looks totally stupid if you're familiar with this stuff, then get so much unnecessary shit for it. Then they sign off, get advice from their family, and go to a T2 law school with Biglaw goals.

I guess to me it's just not a matter of whether or not someone "deserves" a reaction or not. My point is just that people are more likely to listen to if the advice looks a lot more like help and less like judgment and doomsaying.

Maybe. I feel that being direct is the best approach. I've had too many threads turn into 0Ls arguing about why the data is wrong or doesn't apply or they can't retake or even, I'm just trying to limit competition, wastes my time and energy. I do agree that no one deserves to be treated badly for just asking a question. It's the usual refusal to listen that causes problems.

I have seen very few posters actually thank people for helping them out.

[Pneumonia]

Yeah KM I don't really get where you're coming from; people here are rarely unkind to someone who asks for advice.

[09042014]

Serious posters treat question askers way worse than megaposters do.

retake
retake
retak
reakte

[Theopliske8711]

I actually think most ppl on tls are pretty damn nice to 0Ls as long as they aren't being stubborn little shitheads. People are usually pretty encouraging and sympathetic. The worst i see is just straightforward advice like, "no, don't do this." The floodgates only open once someone shows how unwilling they are to even consider the advice.

Also, tls does contribute to the scam in one way. I really think that committing to a retake, working your ass off and landing a solid score makes someone more likely to go to law school, despite however long they've delayed enrollment. By that point they're looking for reasons to make use of their hard work and go, not reasons not to go.

Nah, I think that it's more the retake that's doing that rather. Ideally, you should have one chance to take the lsat, with some exceptions. That would mean many people are locked out and are likely to look for other avenues. TLS is helping people who are likely already dead set.

Had I had to stick with the first score, I really may have reconsidered law school altogether.

[Saddle Up]

I came over to TLS asking about various GA law schools (especially since I live here and COL would be negligible). I mentioned that I had a strong GPA and 171 LSAT. Pretty soon most everyone was saying forget GA (and a near free ride) and go spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for a T6 (which would give me a better chance to work in GA). Hello.

My family has been in the car dealership biz for years and I can tell you that the person who walks in with $20K to buy a car becomes prey to end up using that money as a modest down payment on something really sparkly. That’s the way I see some TLSers… a free ride at a highly ranked tier 1 is meh when you can have that glittery T-6 …. it’s only a couple hundred grand. Seriously?

[Elston Gunn]

I came over to TLS asking about various GA law schools (especially since I live here and COL would be negligible). I mentioned that I had a strong GPA and 171 LSAT. Pretty soon most everyone was saying forget GA (and a near free ride) and go spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for a T6 (which would give me a better chance to work in GA). Hello.

My family has been in the car dealership biz for years and I can tell you that the person who walks in with $20K to buy a car becomes prey to end up using that money as a modest down payment on something really sparkly. That’s the way I see some TLSers… a free ride at a highly ranked tier 1 is meh when you can have that glittery T-6 …. it’s only a couple hundred grand. Seriously?

This used to be true, but not anymore. People might tell you to go to a lower T14 at like $125k debt if you had any interest in a big firm in Atlanta/willing to go to NYC, but these days people wouldn't tell you to go T6 at sticker over UGA for near full ride.

[Saddle Up]

This used to be true, but not anymore. People might tell you to go to a lower T14 at like $125k debt if you had any interest in a big firm in Atlanta/willing to go to NYC, but these days people wouldn't tell you to go T6 at sticker over UGA for near full ride.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but for me these days was like two months ago. I don't believe everyone is on the same page..... just sayin'.

[NYSprague]

This used to be true, but not anymore. People might tell you to go to a lower T14 at like $125k debt if you had any interest in a big firm in Atlanta/willing to go to NYC, but these days people wouldn't tell you to go T6 at sticker over UGA for near full ride.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but for me these days was like two months ago. I don't believe everyone is on the same page..... just sayin'.

I remember you and you are misrepresenting that entire thread. You also failed to mention that your family is paying for school. Also, that you wanted Atlanta big law.

[Theopliske8711]

That'd because a high gpa and lsat of 171 makes you competitive for strong scholarship at a top school, which may be worth the opportunity cost over a GA school that could very well leave you without a job.

[NYSprague]

That'd because a high gpa and lsat of 171 makes you competitive for strong scholarship at a top school, which may be worth the opportunity cost over a GA school that could very well leave you without a job.

She is relying on her grades at Emory to get Atlanta big law.Because apparently Emory is a T20 school in the new rankings.

[Saddle Up]

I remember you and you are misrepresenting that entire thread. You also failed to mention that your family is paying for school. Also, that you wanted Atlanta big law.

What do my parents paying have to do with anything (nice, but ...). Since my brother is in Atl BL and my sis has been offered Atl BL (working on her bar as we speak). I guess the Atl firms haven't been keeping up with tls rationality.

Sparing my parents of needlessly paying a few hundred grand is a bad idea… (do not know how to describe how stupid that sounds).

[Theopliske8711]

I remember you and you are misrepresenting that entire thread. You also failed to mention that your family is paying for school. Also, that you wanted Atlanta big law.

What do my parents paying have to do with anything (nice, but ...). Since my brother is in Atl BL and my sis has been offered Atl BL (working on her bar as we speak). I guess the Atl firms haven't been keeping up with tls rationality.

Sparing my parents of needlessly paying a few hundred grand is a bad idea… (do not know how to describe how stupid that sounds).

You have a 20% chance of landing biglaw, and a 60% chance of getting non-school funded employment... And who knows how much of those biglaw jobs actual partner track...

But of course, you know, your siblings...

[NYSprague]

I remember you and you are misrepresenting that entire thread. You also failed to mention that your family is paying for school. Also, that you wanted Atlanta big law.

What do my parents paying have to do with anything (nice, but ...). Since my brother is in Atl BL and my sis has been offered Atl BL (working on her bar as we speak). I guess the Atl firms haven't been keeping up with tls rationality.

Sparing my parents of needlessly paying a few hundred grand is a bad idea… (do not know how to describe how stupid that sounds).

I didn't say that at all.

[Saddle Up]

This used to be true, but not anymore. People might tell you to go to a lower T14 at like $125k debt if you had any interest in a big firm in Atlanta/willing to go to NYC, but these days people wouldn't tell you to go T6 at sticker over UGA for near full ride.

After reading those responses regarding free ride at a respected top 20 school vs. paying big bucks for that shiny t6 … do you really believe tls thinking has changed one bit?

[Bikeflip]

I remember you and you are misrepresenting that entire thread. You also failed to mention that your family is paying for school. Also, that you wanted Atlanta big law.

What do my parents paying have to do with anything (nice, but ...). Since my brother is in Atl BL and my sis has been offered Atl BL (working on her bar as we speak). I guess the Atl firms haven't been keeping up with tls rationality.

Sparing my parents of needlessly paying a few hundred grand is a bad idea… (do not know how to describe how stupid that sounds).

You have a 20% chance of landing biglaw, and a 60% chance of getting non-school funded employment... And who knows how much of those biglaw jobs actual partner track...

But of course, you know, your siblings...

Saddle, changing the facts of your story makes you look like a huge asshole. But thanks for playing.

Also, DAT LSAT 25th drop.

[bjsesq]

I remember you and you are misrepresenting that entire thread. You also failed to mention that your family is paying for school. Also, that you wanted Atlanta big law.

What do my parents paying have to do with anything (nice, but ...). Since my brother is in Atl BL and my sis has been offered Atl BL (working on her bar as we speak). I guess the Atl firms haven't been keeping up with tls rationality.

Sparing my parents of needlessly paying a few hundred grand is a bad idea… (do not know how to describe how stupid that sounds).

How in the blue fuck was all that your takeaway from what sprague posted?

[Elston Gunn]

This used to be true, but not anymore. People might tell you to go to a lower T14 at like $125k debt if you had any interest in a big firm in Atlanta/willing to go to NYC, but these days people wouldn't tell you to go T6 at sticker over UGA for near full ride.

After reading those responses regarding free ride at a respected top 20 school vs. paying big bucks for that shiny t6 … do you really believe tls thinking has changed one bit?

Yes. The board--at least outside of the 0Ls--is near-universally against sticker debt. I'll happily admit not everyone has the same philosophy about you spending your parents' money. A free ride at Emory (lol @ "respected T-20 school"--no one cares that it's in the top 20) is actually a pretty bad idea over half-ride at lower T14 if you really want biglaw. Last I checked, Emory employment outcomes were pretty terrible outside the top 20-30%. I'm glad it worked out for your siblings, but unless you have some serious connections in the legal community--which, from the sounds of things, you very well might--I doubt that changes things much for you.