Really Sad, Depressed, and Crying Over Today's LSAT Forum

[bizzybone1313]

I am in the same boat as you OP. I am a URM; I graduated with a 3.7. I know I am one test away from HYSC (I am particularly fond of Columbia too). FUCK YOU TLS- Columbia belongs in the same breath as HYS. I am just kidding guys; I love ya'll. I have been putting off this test for years. I was real busy with work for a long time. One day, I was sitting at my cubicle and wondering why I hadn't already gone to law school. So, I quit my job to study for the LSAT. HYS (and C) produces U.S. Senators, Governors, U.S. Presidents and Supreme Court justices. Don't feel like you are the only one.

[annet]

Thanks for being here for me guys, it means more to me than you'll ever know.

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Everything that could go wrong for me...went wrong.

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I would take extra time this next week and just be really kind to yourself. I was amazed at how much worse I felt today than yesterday (no drinking at all, but it felt like a hangover). Then slowly transition to working on your PS and apps. If you do have to retake in December you don't want to be burnt out or scrambling to complete apps.

[PeanutsNJam]

imo most of the current senators/governors/presidents/SCJustices went to HYS back in the day when getting in was a cakewalk. Some of them are stupid as hell.

[CalAlumni]

I know common wisdom on TLS is don't go to a law school with the intent of transferring, but I KNOW I can get top 5% or better. My biggest weakness is standardized testing, while my biggest strength is in-class exams. My ADHD will also get me extra time as I understand it.

What, no. You don't know you can get top 5% or better. Just suck it up and retake for a score you need to get into your dream schools.

But as far as I understand, taking the December LSAT will put me at a disadvantage in the application cycle since it's so late. Also, it's crucial that I apply this go round...I can't wait another year...I already took a year off for this.

[bitsy]

imo most of the current senators/governors/presidents/SCJustices went to HYS back in the day when getting in was a cakewalk. Some of them are stupid as hell.

oh come now, it must've been hard to convince their daddies to pay for law school, after getting all Cs in ug

[soj]

But as far as I understand, taking the December LSAT will put me at a disadvantage in the application cycle since it's so late. Also, it's crucial that I apply this go round...I can't wait another year...I already took a year off for this.

1) applying late isn't a huge disadvantage
2) redouble your efforts and do better on your retake

Don't settle for a school you don't want to graduate from.

[honeybadger12]

But as far as I understand, taking the December LSAT will put me at a disadvantage in the application cycle since it's so late. Also, it's crucial that I apply this go round...I can't wait another year...I already took a year off for this.

1) applying late isn't a huge disadvantage
2) redouble your efforts and do better on your retake

Don't settle for a school you don't want to graduate from.

Totally this. No self-pity, no second-guessing. Smash December.

[pedestrian]

Thanks for being here for me guys, it means more to me than you'll ever know.

What also fucked with me during the LSAT was the guy next to me, he was a nice guy, but I don't know if he had a different exam or what, but every time I was trying to focus on a passage or LR he was LOUDLY diagraming or crossing out answers or something OBNOXIOUSLY which led to me plugging my ears for every section except LG. I couldn't even diagram conditional LR or underline conclusions due to his incessant scribbling.

Everything that could go wrong for me...went wrong.

I know in my heart that HYS is my dream, and I will not be happy anywhere else. If I retake and get 170+, I'm still not a lock at one of HYS due to having to apply late in the cycle.

I think my best bet is to go to the highest ranked school I can get into--maybe Cornell, but with the sole intent of transferring to HYS. Seems like from what I've been researching, a top 5% at Cornell or similar ranked school would get me one of H/S--according to the empirical data on here.

I know common wisdom on TLS is don't go to a law school with the intent of transferring, but I KNOW I can get top 5% or better. My biggest weakness is standardized testing, while my biggest strength is in-class exams. My ADHD will also get me extra time as I understand it.

I'm sad, depressed, confused, after prepping 171-174 consistently to have my law school cycle come down to this...I'm so ashamed and embarrassed...I can hardly look myself in the mirror. I think I need to regroup, collect myself, go to the best school I get into and prep for my ultimate battle...my one last stand...transfer to HYS......or die trying.

1) You don't know your score yet. It may be better than you think.
2) If your score is below what you need for HYS, and that's where you really want to go, take the December LSAT. You lose nothing. You can send in everything to them except the December score and ask them to hold your file until it arrives. December is not terribly late for a complete file (the problem is that people take Dec. LSAT and then take a month getting LORs, etc in). Yale swears that a late application has zero impact on admission because of their leisurely revue system. You will have a much better chance with a high LSAT in December than a low one in October. You can apply to schools where your score is adequate in the meantime.
3) You don't KNOW that you will be in the top 5%. You just don't. You will be up against lots of very smart, qualified people at any top school. Many will be better qualified than the majority who are accepted at Harvard, but do to shit happening, didn't get in. Tests are completely different. Don't assume that you will be in the top 5, 10, or 50%. Please, please, don't.

[carboncopyx]

Did they really say that, or did they punt the question like all adcoms do, saying something like "we consider all the scores holistically"? Disfavoring retakers is, even at HYS, largely a flame designed to make the admissions process seem more holistic and less numbers-driven.

They really did say that. Both Deans came to my university for info sessions. I was in a situation where I could take October and risk getting a subpar score, and I asked them what they would advise me to do in my situation. Harvard told me explicitly that they would want to see ONE GOOD SCORE and only ONE good score rather than a subpar score thrown in the mix. Stanford was a bit more lenient about it, but they are in general more lax about the LSAT in comparison.

[CalAlumni]

But as far as I understand, taking the December LSAT will put me at a disadvantage in the application cycle since it's so late. Also, it's crucial that I apply this go round...I can't wait another year...I already took a year off for this.

1) applying late isn't a huge disadvantage
2) redouble your efforts and do better on your retake

Don't settle for a school you don't want to graduate from.

You make a good point. See, what I also have to deal with is my ADHD and medication I take (stimulants). I've taken them so much recently to study for October, that my tolerance has built up where they barely work anymore...without taking time off (can't study off of meds), it will be EXTRA tough for me...although still in the realm of doable.

I'm certain I can get top 5%; which as I understand it will allow me to transfer into H or S. Are you saying that if someone put a gun to your head and said I will pull the trigger if you don't get top 5% at ex. Cornell...you wouldn't be sure you could do it?

EDIT: After reading posts just posted...top 5% seems impossible. Now, I'm confused again.

[SantIvo]

Shit that makes me want to retake my 174 for Yale ha

I know you're kidding, but no one should retake a 173+ unless they're a splitter and need a better score to get into HLS/CLS/NYU.

Could I ask you to elaborate on your position a little more, soj?

If it's true that law school admissions are for all intents and purposes a numbers game, and if retakers aren't appreciably disfavored even by the elite institutions, then why shouldn't honeybadger retake a 174 to increase their chances at Yale? Three more points would put him/her over the 75% percentile, and six more would net him/her one heck of a strong soft -- both of which could be very relevant to $$ at schools like CCN. What's more, even if the score dives, the badger would still be sitting on that 174.

So I guess I just don't see the drawback to using all three attempts to score as highly as possible (quality of life not withstanding, of course).

[honeybadger12]

Shit that makes me want to retake my 174 for Yale ha

I know you're kidding, but no one should retake a 173+ unless they're a splitter and need a better score to get into HLS/CLS/NYU.

Could I ask you to elaborate on your position a little more, soj?

If it's true that law school admissions are for all intents and purposes a numbers game, and if retakers aren't appreciably disfavored even by the elite institutions, then why shouldn't honeybadger retake a 174 to increase their chances at Yale? Three more points would put him/her over the 75% percentile, and six more would net him/her one heck of a strong soft -- both of which could be very relevant to $$ at schools like CCN. What's more, even if the score dives, the badger would still be sitting on that 174.

So I guess I just don't see the drawback to using all three attempts to score as highly as possible (quality of life not withstanding, of course).

Also I was PT averaging 177 and enjoy studying. Pretty sure I'm not gonna do this though haha

[soj]

I recommend not retaking a 174 because it seems like a lot of effort for minimal gains in admissions chances. There's a strong chance you won't do better (though I'm skeptical that a lower retake will actually hurt your chances). Once you're above every school's median, there's not much more you can do on the LSAT. I singled out splitters aiming for HCN because those schools actually do seem to care about 75th percentiles.

If you have a 172 or lower, though, go nuts and retake, assuming you can do better.

[soj]

You make a good point. See, what I also have to deal with is my ADHD and medication I take (stimulants). I've taken them so much recently to study for October, that my tolerance has built up where they barely work anymore...without taking time off (can't study off of meds), it will be EXTRA tough for me...although still in the realm of doable.

I'm certain I can get top 5%; which as I understand it will allow me to transfer into H or S. Are you saying that if someone put a gun to your head and said I will pull the trigger if you don't get top 5% at ex. Cornell...you wouldn't be sure you could do it?

EDIT: After reading posts just posted...top 5% seems impossible. Now, I'm confused again.

That's exactly what I'm saying. A lot of the factors that determine your success in law school are outside your control.

[honeybadger12]

I recommend not retaking a 174 because it seems like a lot of effort for minimal gains in admissions chances. There's a strong chance you won't do better (though I'm skeptical that a lower retake will actually hurt your chances). Once you're above every school's median, there's not much more you can do on the LSAT. I singled out splitters aiming for HCN because those schools actually do seem to care about 75th percentiles.

If you have a 172 or lower, though, go nuts and retake, assuming you can do better.

Yeah I mean I'd actually love to take it again if I knew it wouldn't affect admissions just to try to hit 180. I'm pretty sure Asha specifically said someone like me should not retake though

[luxlisbon]

But as far as I understand, taking the December LSAT will put me at a disadvantage in the application cycle since it's so late. Also, it's crucial that I apply this go round...I can't wait another year...I already took a year off for this.

1) applying late isn't a huge disadvantage
2) redouble your efforts and do better on your retake

Don't settle for a school you don't want to graduate from.

You make a good point. See, what I also have to deal with is my ADHD and medication I take (stimulants). I've taken them so much recently to study for October, that my tolerance has built up where they barely work anymore...without taking time off (can't study off of meds), it will be EXTRA tough for me...although still in the realm of doable.

I'm certain I can get top 5%; which as I understand it will allow me to transfer into H or S. Are you saying that if someone put a gun to your head and said I will pull the trigger if you don't get top 5% at ex. Cornell...you wouldn't be sure you could do it?

EDIT: After reading posts just posted...top 5% seems impossible. Now, I'm confused again.

There's no way you can be certain you'll get top 5%. You don't even know who you'll be up against.

[honeybadger12]

But as far as I understand, taking the December LSAT will put me at a disadvantage in the application cycle since it's so late. Also, it's crucial that I apply this go round...I can't wait another year...I already took a year off for this.

1) applying late isn't a huge disadvantage
2) redouble your efforts and do better on your retake

Don't settle for a school you don't want to graduate from.

You make a good point. See, what I also have to deal with is my ADHD and medication I take (stimulants). I've taken them so much recently to study for October, that my tolerance has built up where they barely work anymore...without taking time off (can't study off of meds), it will be EXTRA tough for me...although still in the realm of doable.

I'm certain I can get top 5%; which as I understand it will allow me to transfer into H or S. Are you saying that if someone put a gun to your head and said I will pull the trigger if you don't get top 5% at ex. Cornell...you wouldn't be sure you could do it?

EDIT: After reading posts just posted...top 5% seems impossible. Now, I'm confused again.

How did you go from it's certain to it's impossible so fast lol

[SantIvo]

Well then. In Asha we trust.

[CalAlumni]

You make a good point. See, what I also have to deal with is my ADHD and medication I take (stimulants). I've taken them so much recently to study for October, that my tolerance has built up where they barely work anymore...without taking time off (can't study off of meds), it will be EXTRA tough for me...although still in the realm of doable.

I'm certain I can get top 5%; which as I understand it will allow me to transfer into H or S. Are you saying that if someone put a gun to your head and said I will pull the trigger if you don't get top 5% at ex. Cornell...you wouldn't be sure you could do it?

EDIT: After reading posts just posted...top 5% seems impossible. Now, I'm confused again.

That's exactly what I'm saying. A lot of the factors that determine your success in law school are outside your control.

Well, then. December here I come. The only problem is H averages....so if I bomb Oct. and get a 173 in December....I'm not looking good for H...and Y is always a long-shot...so I'm down to everything riding on S.

[soj]

Did they really say that, or did they punt the question like all adcoms do, saying something like "we consider all the scores holistically"? Disfavoring retakers is, even at HYS, largely a flame designed to make the admissions process seem more holistic and less numbers-driven.

They really did say that. Both Deans came to my university for info sessions. I was in a situation where I could take October and risk getting a subpar score, and I asked them what they would advise me to do in my situation. Harvard told me explicitly that they would want to see ONE GOOD SCORE and only ONE good score rather than a subpar score thrown in the mix. Stanford was a bit more lenient about it, but they are in general more lax about the LSAT in comparison.

Call me cynical, but that doesn't mean Harvard actually disfavors retakers. Harvard doesn't give a fuck if you have a 174 or a 170/174. Harvard just doesn't want you to get a 170, give up on the LSAT like so many stupid, lazy 0Ls do ("I can't retake! I have to go to law school next year!"), and then settle for a lower T14. Stanford is more lenient because Stanford doesn't give a fuck if you have a 170 or a 174.

[honeybadger12]

Well then. In Asha we trust.

She does help make admissions decisions, so I'm not sure who'd be better to trust?

[SantIvo]

Well then. In Asha we trust.

She does help make admissions decisions, so I'm not sure who'd be better to trust?

Oh no, I am agreeing with you 100%. I'm a "Bad Idea Jeans" devotee.

[honeybadger12]

Well then. In Asha we trust.

She does help make admissions decisions, so I'm not sure who'd be better to trust?

Oh no, I am agreeing with you 100%. I'm a "Bad Idea Jeans" devotee.

Haha ok. Yeah great blog

[soj]

Call me cynical, but that doesn't mean Harvard actually disfavors retakers. Harvard doesn't give a fuck if you have a 174 or a 170/174. Harvard just doesn't want you to get a 170, give up on the LSAT like so many stupid, lazy 0Ls do ("I can't retake! I have to go to law school next year!"), and then settle for a lower T14. Stanford is more lenient because Stanford doesn't give a fuck if you have a 170 or a 174.

To add to this, if you'd instead told JS you'd already retaken but gotten a shit score and asked if you should retake, she would not only say yes (duh), but also act like retaking doesn't put you at a significant disadvantage in the admissions process.

[SantIvo]

Did they really say that, or did they punt the question like all adcoms do, saying something like "we consider all the scores holistically"? Disfavoring retakers is, even at HYS, largely a flame designed to make the admissions process seem more holistic and less numbers-driven.

They really did say that. Both Deans came to my university for info sessions. I was in a situation where I could take October and risk getting a subpar score, and I asked them what they would advise me to do in my situation. Harvard told me explicitly that they would want to see ONE GOOD SCORE and only ONE good score rather than a subpar score thrown in the mix. Stanford was a bit more lenient about it, but they are in general more lax about the LSAT in comparison.

Call me cynical, but that doesn't mean Harvard actually disfavors retakers. Harvard doesn't give a fuck if you have a 174 or a 170/174. Harvard just doesn't want you to get a 170, give up on the LSAT like so many stupid, lazy 0Ls do ("I can't retake! I have to go to law school next year!"), and then settle for a lower T14. Stanford is more lenient because Stanford doesn't give a fuck if you have a 170 or a 174.

Soj, I remember reading your posts in the ASW threads for H and S, may I ask where you ended up matriculating?