LSAC settles LSAT Disability Lawsuit Forum

[NYSprague]

This consent decree is insane. I've read through it in full. I cannot belief they placed no time limits in when one needed to have received accommodated testing on a post-secondary test. So much has changed in terms of the understanding of learning disabilities, but if i can show that I took the SAT with double time in 1980, then according to the consent decree i am entitled to the same accommodation on the lsat.

Is this a serious concern? I can't tell if your joking. You honestly see this being an issue? DROVES of people with 20 or 30 year old documents are going to be accommodated?

The reason lSAC lost their decision making ability is because they were requiring additional, expensive and unnecessary testing for people who had a lifetime of documentation.

They denied at least hundreds of deserving people over time and even more people who were entitled didn't bother to apply.

No, no, no. No concern here. I just find it fascinating, that's all. They really got the book thrown at them.

Yeah, I agree. When I first heard about this, I thought it was just a couple of changes, not that the government is forcing them to redo their practices and be subject to monitoring and auditing.

[Big Dog]

I don't know, the requirement for a reasonable accomodation under the law definitely seems to be saying that Hellen Keller could easily have been allowed to pilot a passenger plane.

Dunno about a plane, but the blind can attend and graduate from med school.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/edu ... ctor_x.htm

[Clyde Frog]

Wonder if you can get extra time if you have a note from your mom saying you have diarrhea...

[BillsFan9907]

When schools get score reports are they given access to your answers and answer sheet as well? Obviously if this is the case, they will see that you took a different test than everyone else. This seems like it would amount to de facto flagging.

Also as there is no more formal flagging, I take it that accommodated tests will now be factored in the medians (or were they always?)

[ScottRiqui]

When schools get score reports are they given access to your answers and answer sheet as well? Obviously if this is the case, they will see that you took a different test than everyone else. This seems like it would amount to de facto flagging.

Also as there is no more formal flagging, I take it that accommodated tests will now be factored in the medians (or were they always?)

Other than not being given an experimental section, I hadn't heard anything up to this point about extra-time testers receiving a different test. Not sure if the schools have access to anything other than a scaled score, and I don't think they can make an argument for needing more than that in the first place, considering how many applicants take non-released tests (Sabbath, delayed, February administration, etc).

Under the outgoing system, extra-time accommodated scores don't count towards the schools' medians. I don't know how it will work going forward. The only way I think they could continue to leave them out in the future while still maintaining medical privacy would be for the school to send a roster of the incoming 1L class to LSAC, and have LSAC generate the 25/50/75th LSAT numbers for the class as a whole, without revealing which scores were left out to calculate those numbers.

[sublime]

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[NYSprague]

Wonder if you can get extra time if you have a note from your mom saying you have diarrhea...

No. You need actual medical proof of disability. I'm sure you grasp what was really happening was denial of valid claims along with all the other stuff of onerous reporting and unclear reasoning for denials,which is why LSAC has to pay civil damages to members of the class ($7.73 million) and the other fines and attorney's fees. If you don't grasp it, read the court filings and get a clue.

The old system violated the law, that doesn't mean the new system will let your Mom just write you a note.

[NYSprague]

When schools get score reports are they given access to your answers and answer sheet as well? Obviously if this is the case, they will see that you took a different test than everyone else. This seems like it would amount to de facto flagging.

Also as there is no more formal flagging, I take it that accommodated tests will now be factored in the medians (or were they always?)

I've never heard that schools get access to answer sheets. I think you are right about debt facto flagging.

Why shouldn't the scores count for medians? Everyone is just going to have to adjust and I think they will do it quickly.

For me, personally, I'm realizing how much I care about disability civil rights. When I can be reliably available, I'm getting our pro bono coordinator to help me find some work. It is outrageous that LSAC got away with this for so long. Maybe I can help people file claims with the class, never done that before. I want to help the quadriplegic and vision impaired people the LSAC treated so badly.

[indo]

What happens when a student gets an accommodation on the LSAT and on law school exams and then enters practice? Does he bill for the extra time it takes him?

Great one.

[NYSprague]

What happens when a student gets an accommodation on the LSAT and on law school exams and then enters practice? Does he bill for the extra time it takes him?

Great one.

You realize that the law requires employers to provide accommodations? Like the blind tax attorney can do the work but he needs a Braille typewriter and voice stuff, the employer has to allow it
The fucking LSAT has very little to do with the ability to do real work in a real law office.
And, actually, in litigation people routinely give extensions, even to all the non disabled people who need more time, it isn't a race to the end.

I don't know why you guys are acting like such pricks about this. Maybe because you have never worked as lawyers? Maybe you don't understand that there is a huge range of ways to bill and to practice?

Or maybe you're just jerks who are threatened by blind and paralyzed people getting more time. Or dyslexics who need more time to process, which, luckily I guess, for this argument, one of the best, most famous lawyers in the country has had to deal with his entire life. You would kill for his career. No one seems to mind paying him whatever he asks.

It's not a good look from any of you.

[indo]

What happens when a student gets an accommodation on the LSAT and on law school exams and then enters practice? Does he bill for the extra time it takes him?

Great one.

You realize that the law requires employers to provide accommodations? Like the blind tax attorney can do the work but he needs a Braille typewriter and voice stuff, the employer has to allow it
The fucking LSAT has very little to do with the ability to do real work in a real law office.
And, actually, in litigation people routinely give extensions, even to all the non disabled people who need more time, it isn't a race to the end.

I don't know why you guys are acting like such pricks about this. Maybe because you have never worked as lawyers? Maybe you don't understand that there is a huge range of ways to bill and to practice?

Or maybe you're just jerks who are threatened by blind and paralyzed people getting more time. Or dyslexics who need more time to process, which, luckily I guess, for this argument, one of the best, most famous lawyers in the country has had to deal with his entire life. You would kill for his career. No one seems to mind paying him whatever he asks.

It's not a good look from any of you.

You are the one having a problem by your comment.
It seems you can NOT handle the truth

[A. Nony Mouse]

indo, raw speed is not the major criterion by which lawyers are actually judged in practice. Nor is practicing law actually like sitting down and completing 35 minutes section on the LSAT or 3 hour exams in law school (thank god). Further, people with disabilities often compensate by developing other skills. I would much rather take a brilliant attorney with dyslexia who takes longer to read printed work than an idiot who can read more material in a shorter period of time but hasn't got a clue what to do with it. Finally, there are plenty of legal jobs that don't involve billable hours. So whatever accommodations someone needs on the LSAT have extremely little to do with whether someone is a good lawyer.

Shorter version: your post is bad and you should feel bad.

[ScottRiqui]

What happens when a student gets an accommodation on the LSAT and on law school exams and then enters practice? Does he bill for the extra time it takes him?

Great one.

Except that not all lawyers (even the ones who didn't need accommodations on the LSAT) work at the exact same level of efficiency. The hypothetical lawyer who did get accommodations could very well end up in the "fat part of the bell curve" in that respect once he gets out and starts practicing.

[BillsFan9907]

Just so I understand properly - even though this is a *proposed* consent decree, LSAC has already agreed to it. There aren't going to be any changes to it. All that is needed now is "entry of this Decree by the Court?" I'm obviously a 0L, so a little comment on what that means would be helpful.

[NYSprague]

Just so I understand properly - even though this is a *proposed* consent decree, LSAC has already agreed to it. There aren't going to be any changes to it. All that is needed now is "entry of this Decree by the Court?" I'm obviously a 0L, so a little comment on what that means would be helpful.

Yes. Unless LSAC tries to back out now, which would be problematic, the judge just has to sign and approved it. From what I read, the effective date should be the date it is signed, which means that flagging should stop immediately and that the September exam should have the new standards for accommodations, depending on timing.

I'm not sure why DOJ published this to the press now, before it was signed. The judge has probably indicated he would accept this.

[NYSprague]

One thing I wanted to add. California deserves a huge amount of credit for bringing this lawsuit. They are the only state who seemed to investigate the cases and undertake proceeding against LSAC. There had been sporadic settlements against LSAC over individual claims in other states.

They did a good job investigating and litigating this action, which they then were able to get DOJ to support and then intervene.

[BillsFan9907]

Called the ADA today. The woman told me that they expect the Court to approve the consent decree very soon. There will be an update on the website when it goes into effect.

[Clyde Frog]

Wonder if you can get extra time if you have a note from your mom saying you have diarrhea...

No. You need actual medical proof of disability. I'm sure you grasp what was really happening was denial of valid claims along with all the other stuff of onerous reporting and unclear reasoning for denials,which is why LSAC has to pay civil damages to members of the class ($7.73 million) and the other fines and attorney's fees. If you don't grasp it, read the court filings and get a clue.

The old system violated the law, that doesn't mean the new system will let your Mom just write you a note.

I'm aware, I was just kidding.

[NYSprague]

Wonder if you can get extra time if you have a note from your mom saying you have diarrhea...

No. You need actual medical proof of disability. I'm sure you grasp what was really happening was denial of valid claims along with all the other stuff of onerous reporting and unclear reasoning for denials,which is why LSAC has to pay civil damages to members of the class ($7.73 million) and the other fines and attorney's fees. If you don't grasp it, read the court filings and get a clue.

The old system violated the law, that doesn't mean the new system will let your Mom just write you a note.

I'm aware, I was just kidding.

Sorry. Some people aren't kidding and I have always been tone deaf about content. Ive gotten over my shock at LSAC actions and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some people are more concerned about their own scores than the rights of disabled people.

[Learn_Live_Hope]

Wonder if you can get extra time if you have a note from your mom saying you have diarrhea...

No. You need actual medical proof of disability. I'm sure you grasp what was really happening was denial of valid claims along with all the other stuff of onerous reporting and unclear reasoning for denials,which is why LSAC has to pay civil damages to members of the class ($7.73 million) and the other fines and attorney's fees. If you don't grasp it, read the court filings and get a clue.

The old system violated the law, that doesn't mean the new system will let your Mom just write you a note.

...

[NYSprague]

Wonder if you can get extra time if you have a note from your mom saying you have diarrhea...

No. You need actual medical proof of disability. I'm sure you grasp what was really happening was denial of valid claims along with all the other stuff of onerous reporting and unclear reasoning for denials,which is why LSAC has to pay civil damages to members of the class ($7.73 million) and the other fines and attorney's fees. If you don't grasp it, read the court filings and get a clue.

The old system violated the law, that doesn't mean the new system will let your Mom just write you a note.

Looking at your posts, you must be one of those in line seeking accommodations...

Nope. I do corporate and I haven't seen a private company agree to this level of oversight from the government, which is the first reason the settlement agreement got my attention. It is extraordinary in my opinion.

[Learn_Live_Hope]

Wonder if you can get extra time if you have a note from your mom saying you have diarrhea...

No. You need actual medical proof of disability. I'm sure you grasp what was really happening was denial of valid claims along with all the other stuff of onerous reporting and unclear reasoning for denials,which is why LSAC has to pay civil damages to members of the class ($7.73 million) and the other fines and attorney's fees. If you don't grasp it, read the court filings and get a clue.

The old system violated the law, that doesn't mean the new system will let your Mom just write you a note.

Looking at your posts, you must be one of those in line seeking accommodations...

Nope. I do corporate and I haven't seen a private company agree to this level of oversight from the government, which is the first reason the settlement agreement got my attention. It is extraordinary in my opinion.

...

[A. Nony Mouse]

Way more people have their panties in a twist about the theoretical increase in people gaming the system than have expressed approval that people with disabilities will now be able to get accommodations.

[Learn_Live_Hope]

Way more people have their panties in a twist about the theoretical increase in people gaming the system than have expressed approval that people with disabilities will now be able to get accommodations.

..

[NYSprague]

Way more people have their panties in a twist about the theoretical increase in people gaming the system than have expressed approval that people with disabilities will now be able to get accommodations.

Or expressed disapproval with what LSAC was doing.

I know there was investigation into the risk of people gaming the system back when the ADA was enacted, or amended, or when the regulations were enacted. It was referenced in one of the filings, but I haven't looked it up. Apparently it is a fear without data supporting it.

One funny thing seems to be that the LSAT is not intended to measure speed, but somehow speed seems to be the limiting factor. I don't pretend to understand exam psychometrics.

The exam is supposed to measure reasoning ability, not speed of reasoning. At least that is what I got from skimming some stuff about it.

I'm really curious as to whether they will need to revise the test.