The Official June 2017 Study Group Forum

[Future Ex-Engineer]

Currently having a fucking panic attack. IDK what it is, but I seriously forgot how to do LR on the recent tests.

PT 70
LR1: -4
RC: -0
LG:-1
LR2: -7

Like WTF is this. Neither section felt particularly difficult, so I guess I'm just stupid and falling for all the trap answers? This literally feels night and day from even the late 60's. Very, very seriously considering withdrawing from June at this point. Feeling defeated and like I've totally wasted the last 6 months.

edit: In case it isn't clear this is a desperate cry for help for someone to tell me its gonna be okay

Hey Plato, I'm in the same spot right now. You can do this! There's something different with the 70's, but your foundation in LR is definitely solid enough to make it work. At the very least, it's better to spot these mistakes and fix them before the test than finding them after the test

I agree, I managed an average of -0.75 per section in the 40's + 50's when drilling, so the foundation is there. Just need to tweak a few things to get caught up on the curve balls from the 70's

Yeah it's crazy how the tests in the 70s are pretty much harder on all fronts. Hoping for a nice generous -14 curve.

BTW isn't your pt average like 174 or something? Don't tell me you're not ready for this, because that means I'm not ready either

My average for PT 70's isn't that hot though (around 172.9?) The last 2 PT's hit me hard and I'm still struggling to get over them. How are you faring in the 70's, DM? How do you keep a clear mind when going through the more challenging LR questions?

I'm just lost on what to do right now.

So your average on the most recent tests is median score at Yale - the best law school in the world. Seriously, that's an excellent score. We're a bit blinded to it because we're all high achievers, but at this point, most of us stand a really good shot at scoring in the top 1%

[Walliums]

Currently having a fucking panic attack. IDK what it is, but I seriously forgot how to do LR on the recent tests.

PT 70
LR1: -4
RC: -0
LG:-1
LR2: -7

Like WTF is this. Neither section felt particularly difficult, so I guess I'm just stupid and falling for all the trap answers? This literally feels night and day from even the late 60's. Very, very seriously considering withdrawing from June at this point. Feeling defeated and like I've totally wasted the last 6 months.

edit: In case it isn't clear this is a desperate cry for help for someone to tell me its gonna be okay

Plato, I know how you feel. We are in this together Don't withdraw! I'm spending a good chunk these next few days redoing all of the LR sections (timed) from the 70s that I have taken so far. And I'm done with those, I'll be hitting the RC sections.

I think this is a great idea and think I am going to do the same thing. Hopefully that review and taking PT 78, 79, and 80 will be enough.

I've already re-done the sections for PTs 70 and 72 today! Missed some ones I got right the first time around, but overall have done much better and gotten correct all the ones I got wrong the first time around. I think some of the misses actually come from fighting my memory - instead of really reasoning through the argument, on those I'd be subconsciously thinking about which answer choices seemed familiar and if it was a question I got wrong or had just reviewed.

[Walliums]

Ok, I have PT 79 and 80 left. I'm going to take PT 79 this Saturday. When do you guys think I should take PT 80? I can't do it Wednesday after work, and I'm trying to keep the Saturday and Sunday before the test free for stress-relief.

[HenryHankPalmer]

PT 76
LR1: -2
LR2: -0
LG: -4 (The 3rd game killed me for some reason)
RC: -6

170 scaled. Plan to review all day today tomorrow, drill the basics Monday and Tuesday, take PTs Wednesday and Friday, and do light review next weekend.

[Slippin' Jimmy]

Off topic question: What schools are you targeting? I'm assuming everyone here is T13 or bust. Personally I'm going after Duke (good possibility if I score my average) and UVA (stretch due to lower than median GPA) and have Cornell, Vandy, UT, Emory and Florida as back ups in that order.

[Platopus]

Off topic question: What schools are you targeting? I'm assuming everyone here is T13 or bust. Personally I'm going after Duke (good possibility if I score my average) and UVA (stretch due to lower than median GPA) and have Cornell, Vandy, UT, Emory and Florida as back ups in that order.

I'm really after UChicago w/ stacks, Yale, Harvard, and possibly Northwestern w/ stacks. Columbia and NYU, too, but I'm not overly thrilled about spending any portion of my life in New York. So essentially targeting T-6 & Northwestern

[Amerision]

Off topic question: What schools are you targeting? I'm assuming everyone here is T13 or bust. Personally I'm going after Duke (good possibility if I score my average) and UVA (stretch due to lower than median GPA) and have Cornell, Vandy, UT, Emory and Florida as back ups in that order.

My GPA's over a 4 (humble brag) so I'm hoping to hit all of the T14 except for Texas just because I'm not very interested in going there. Dream school is Stanford, realistic/wishful but still possible goal is Duke/UVA/Cornell (NYC placement) with $$$.

[Future Ex-Engineer]

Off topic question: What schools are you targeting? I'm assuming everyone here is T13 or bust. Personally I'm going after Duke (good possibility if I score my average) and UVA (stretch due to lower than median GPA) and have Cornell, Vandy, UT, Emory and Florida as back ups in that order.

Got in everywhere Chicago and down last year with a 168. Decided to sit because I want a Dillard or Yale. Essentially was told by the adcomm that a 170 would get me a Dillard with my GPA/resume, so that's why I'm here. If I break off a 173+ Stanford or Yale also starts to be a (hopeful) possibility

[Saylor1720]

PT77 best LR yet but fell back in RC/LG
RC: -6
LR1: -1
LG: -2
LR2: -3
170

Good to hit a 170 again, although this could've gone better. Took RC 62 as an experimental 5th section and got -4. Going to review this. Take 78 and 80 next week.

[zkyggi]

Off topic question: What schools are you targeting? I'm assuming everyone here is T13 or bust. Personally I'm going after Duke (good possibility if I score my average) and UVA (stretch due to lower than median GPA) and have Cornell, Vandy, UT, Emory and Florida as back ups in that order.

HYS (mainly H/S) or CCN w/ money.

[Walliums]

.

[saf18hornet]

Off topic question: What schools are you targeting? I'm assuming everyone here is T13 or bust. Personally I'm going after Duke (good possibility if I score my average) and UVA (stretch due to lower than median GPA) and have Cornell, Vandy, UT, Emory and Florida as back ups in that order.

I have a 3.5x, so I'm planning to take the cheapest of Mich, Duke, UVA, Vandy, GWU. I'm interested in IP and patent law right now. Target markets are DC, Philly, DE, Baltimore.

Edit: STEM majors really seemed to outperform this cycle, so I'm praying one of MVD offers >100k if I can pull off that 171-173 range. Otherwise, my wife loves the idea of Nashville.

[Nik9639]

Removed.

[Walliums]

Off topic question

Also, Jimmy, 180/180 for you for telling off that numbskull with the confederate flag avi.

[Walliums]

PT77 best LR yet but fell back in RC/LG
RC: -6
LR1: -1
LG: -2
LR2: -3
170

Good to hit a 170 again, although this could've gone better. Took RC 62 as an experimental 5th section and got -4. Going to review this. Take 78 and 80 next week.

It was that pattern game, wasn't it?

[Future Ex-Engineer]

STEM majors really seemed to outperform this cycle

Do you have any statistics for this, like LSAT/GPA STEM vs non-STEM? Or is it just anecdotal? Hopefully it is still the case next cycle.


I'm driving. Planning to be there at 11 or so.

Anecdotal, but I feel like I performed quite well last cycle given my numbers. 168/3.98 (so good, but not out of this world) got me $120k offers from UT/Mich/Cornell, 65k offers from Duke/NYU, 35k UChi, 55k UVA, full+stipend Vandy/WUSTL

Literally never heard anything about aid from GTTTT, then they sent an email asking why I withdrew. Told them it was because they never sent me any aid info after I requested it. Never heard back from them again.

Didn't apply to Y/Penn/NU/Columbia.

WL'd at Harvard. Dinged by S (not surprised)

Edit: relevant-ish b/c STEM major with BS and MS in electrical engineering from a top 25 public and very attractive work experience (less than 2 years). I believe my academic/work background definitely gave me an edge, but do feel that I got lowballed by a couple schools because I applied late (January) and with a score below median at most top schools.

[Neil_Gorsuch]

Currently having a fucking panic attack. IDK what it is, but I seriously forgot how to do LR on the recent tests.

PT 70
LR1: -4
RC: -0
LG:-1
LR2: -7

Like WTF is this. Neither section felt particularly difficult, so I guess I'm just stupid and falling for all the trap answers? This literally feels night and day from even the late 60's. Very, very seriously considering withdrawing from June at this point. Feeling defeated and like I've totally wasted the last 6 months.

edit: In case it isn't clear this is a desperate cry for help for someone to tell me its gonna be okay

Hey Plato, I'm in the same spot right now. You can do this! There's something different with the 70's, but your foundation in LR is definitely solid enough to make it work. At the very least, it's better to spot these mistakes and fix them before the test than finding them after the test

I agree, I managed an average of -0.75 per section in the 40's + 50's when drilling, so the foundation is there. Just need to tweak a few things to get caught up on the curve balls from the 70's

Yeah it's crazy how the tests in the 70s are pretty much harder on all fronts. Hoping for a nice generous -14 curve.

BTW isn't your pt average like 174 or something? Don't tell me you're not ready for this, because that means I'm not ready either

My average for PT 70's isn't that hot though (around 172.9?) The last 2 PT's hit me hard and I'm still struggling to get over them. How are you faring in the 70's, DM? How do you keep a clear mind when going through the more challenging LR questions?

I'm just lost on what to do right now.

So your average on the most recent tests is median score at Yale - the best law school in the world. Seriously, that's an excellent score. We're a bit blinded to it because we're all high achievers, but at this point, most of us stand a really good shot at scoring in the top 1%

On my last 10 tests, I've been averaging a 179 (175 - 180). That said, I've done a truly enormous amount of studying - on and off for almost a year with a few administrations in the can already. In order to break through to that top level, you need to have standard procedures that you apply to all sections, stimuli, and answers, and apply them rigorously. I developed these both through a prep class, advice on the forums, and my own experimentation. That said, I would really not worry given your recent performance. If I could have gotten 172 on my last take, I would not have done all this studying and prep over the last three months.

[Slippin' Jimmy]

PT77 best LR yet but fell back in RC/LG
RC: -6
LR1: -1
LG: -2
LR2: -3
170

Good to hit a 170 again, although this could've gone better. Took RC 62 as an experimental 5th section and got -4. Going to review this. Take 78 and 80 next week.

It was that pattern game, wasn't it?

If you take a step back (and skip it!!) the pattern game really isn't all that bad, nearly all of the wrong ACs can be eliminated very quickly. You just can't solve it in a formulaic fashion like you can 99% of other games. I don't think I even wrote anything down at all for that game.

Now some of the other pattern games we've seen before PT 30 have been absolutely brutal, and are worth doing if you're worried about one coming up soon.

[Slippin' Jimmy]

STEM majors really seemed to outperform this cycle

Do you have any statistics for this, like LSAT/GPA STEM vs non-STEM? Or is it just anecdotal? Hopefully it is still the case next cycle.


I'm driving. Planning to be there at 11 or so.

Anecdotal, but I feel like I performed quite well last cycle given my numbers. 168/3.98 (so good, but not out of this world) got me $120k offers from UT/Mich/Cornell, 65k offers from Duke/NYU, 35k UChi, 55k UVA, full+stipend Vandy/WUSTL

Literally never heard anything about aid from GTTTT, then they sent an email asking why I withdrew. Told them it was because they never sent me any aid info after I requested it. Never heard back from them again.

Didn't apply to Y/Penn/NU/Columbia.

WL'd at Harvard. Dinged by S (not surprised)

Edit: relevant-ish b/c STEM major with BS and MS in electrical engineering from a top 25 public and very attractive work experience (less than 2 years). I believe my academic/work background definitely gave me an edge, but do feel that I got lowballed by a couple schools because I applied late (January) and with a score below median at most top schools.

That full + Stipend from Vandy would be very hard to turn down...

[Slippin' Jimmy]

Off topic question

Also, Jimmy, 180/180 for you for telling off that numbskull with the confederate flag avi.

I'm hoping he's a troll, his "advice" he's given all over TLS is dangerously bad. Saw him advocating for a TTT with little scholarship.

[saf18hornet]

Edit: relevant-ish b/c STEM major with BS and MS in electrical engineering from a top 25 public and very attractive work experience (less than 2 years). I believe my academic/work background definitely gave me an edge, but do feel that I got lowballed by a couple schools because I applied late (January) and with a score below median at most top schools.

Very similar to me. Top 15 public, BS and MS, 5+ years WE. Patent.

[Future Ex-Engineer]

That full + Stipend from Vandy would be very hard to turn down...

It was. Nashville is awesome.

It all came down to I wasn't ready to go back to school this year. Lots of cools projects I'm committed to finishing up at work in the next 6-8 months (we've got a pretty small bus factor on those projects, so replacing me quickly was not really in the cards), along with some major life curveballs that hit me during the winter indicated that I would regret going to school this fall. Also caught the travel bug from my uncle, so if all goes well (170+) I'll be leaving my job in the spring and traveling for a few months before taking a (hopefully) full somewhere in the Mich/UVA/Duke range or packing my bags for HYS.

Worst case scenario (which is not a bad deal) I end up applying again for the same deal at Vandy with a better LSAT. I think I'd have a good shot at that again next year as I talked through the decision pretty thoroughly with Dean Morton and he even agreed with me (before making the offer) that it sounded like the best decision for my place in life was to wait a year.

[Walliums]

PT77 best LR yet but fell back in RC/LG
RC: -6
LR1: -1
LG: -2
LR2: -3
170

Good to hit a 170 again, although this could've gone better. Took RC 62 as an experimental 5th section and got -4. Going to review this. Take 78 and 80 next week.

It was that pattern game, wasn't it?

If you take a step back (and skip it!!) the pattern game really isn't all that bad, nearly all of the wrong ACs can be eliminated very quickly. You just can't solve it in a formulaic fashion like you can 99% of other games. I don't think I even wrote anything down at all for that game.

Now some of the other pattern games we've seen before PT 30 have been absolutely brutal, and are worth doing if you're worried about one coming up soon.

Absolutely true! I started in on it and then skipped, and came back with not a lot of time. On BR it was a piece of cake.

[Walliums]

On my last 10 tests, I've been averaging a 179 (175 - 180). That said, I've done a truly enormous amount of studying - on and off for almost a year with a few administrations in the can already. In order to break through to that top level, you need to have standard procedures that you apply to all sections, stimuli, and answers, and apply them rigorously. I developed these both through a prep class, advice on the forums, and my own experimentation. That said, I would really not worry given your recent performance. If I could have gotten 172 on my last take, I would not have done all this studying and prep over the last three months.

Could I ask what tests those were? And could you share in brief some of your "standard procedures"? Just curious to see your thought process.

[MediocreAtBest]

Off topic question: What schools are you targeting? I'm assuming everyone here is T13 or bust. Personally I'm going after Duke (good possibility if I score my average) and UVA (stretch due to lower than median GPA) and have Cornell, Vandy, UT, Emory and Florida as back ups in that order.

I have a terrible gpa so I'm only applying to a couple t14s, but I have a feeling I'll end up at WUSTL.