The Official June 2015 Study Group Forum

[msp8]

I've been focusing primarily on LR and RC since I started studying and I'm scoring pretty well - doing especially well during blind review, but I'm having a lot of trouble actually finishing a section on time, often taking ~40 minutes to finish a section instead of 35. Does anyone have tips on getting through the sections more quickly without sacrificing accuracy?

Practice more.

Also, read up earlier this page and last. ChoboPie has some good back-and-forth explanations for fundip, who's having the same problem.

Fwiw, I still have timing issues here and there, too.

[ccordero]

I've been focusing primarily on LR and RC since I started studying and I'm scoring pretty well - doing especially well during blind review, but I'm having a lot of trouble actually finishing a section on time, often taking ~40 minutes to finish a section instead of 35. Does anyone have tips on getting through the sections more quickly without sacrificing accuracy?

Where do you find yourself spending more time/starting to slow down? By the time you're in the middle of each section, what's your time stamp?

Unfortunately, for LR, after the first 15 questions, I've already spent about 23-25 minutes, leaving about 10-12 minutes for the last 10.
For RC, it depends - if it's a topic heavy in science, it usually takes me 2x as long and I don't finish most of the questions - I don't even know what my timestamp for those are.

[ccordero]

I've been focusing primarily on LR and RC since I started studying and I'm scoring pretty well - doing especially well during blind review, but I'm having a lot of trouble actually finishing a section on time, often taking ~40 minutes to finish a section instead of 35. Does anyone have tips on getting through the sections more quickly without sacrificing accuracy?

Practice more.

Also, read up earlier this page and last. ChoboPie has some good back-and-forth explanations for fundip, who's having the same problem.

Fwiw, I still have timing issues here and there, too.

Thanks! I'll search for that post.

[msp8]

I've been focusing primarily on LR and RC since I started studying and I'm scoring pretty well - doing especially well during blind review, but I'm having a lot of trouble actually finishing a section on time, often taking ~40 minutes to finish a section instead of 35. Does anyone have tips on getting through the sections more quickly without sacrificing accuracy?

Where do you find yourself spending more time/starting to slow down? By the time you're in the middle of each section, what's your time stamp?

Unfortunately, for LR, after the first 15 questions, I've already spent about 23-25 minutes, leaving about 10-12 minutes for the last 10.
For RC, it depends - if it's a topic heavy in science, it usually takes me 2x as long and I don't finish most of the questions - I don't even know what my timestamp for those are.

Reading this, I think you just need a better grasp of the fundamentals/more familiarity. The first 15 questions should be much faster. The benchmark is to get to the first 15 done in 15mins. If you understand the concepts and have a good amount of familiarity, it is a likelihood that you get to this point or close. And that'll leave you ample time for the remainder of the section's tougher Qs.

[RZ5646]

Re LR timing: Definitely focus on the basics / accuracy over time. If you try to go too fast you'll just miss more. And especially if this is early in your prep, you do not want to engrain bad habits by valuing speed over accuracy; speed will come with practice.

Example from my last PT:

LR1 - finished in 24 minutes, -2
LR2 - finished in 31 minutes, -0

[RZ5646]

I think TLS might overestimate the value of prep books. It seems like almost all of one's improvement comes from practice and thinking about the questions, not from picking up tips and tricks from books.

[Rigo]

I think TLS might overestimate the value of prep books. It seems like almost all of one's improvement comes from practice and thinking about the questions, not from picking up tips and tricks from books.

Without prep books, most of us wouldn't know how to diagram, wtf LR questions are even asking, etc.
I think they're pretty important.

[RZ5646]

I think TLS might overestimate the value of prep books. It seems like almost all of one's improvement comes from practice and thinking about the questions, not from picking up tips and tricks from books.

Without prep books, most of us wouldn't know how to diagram, wtf LR questions are even asking, etc.
I think they're pretty important.

But don't you think you could condense diagramming techniques into like a 10 page pamphlet and a handful of example games? Actually, you could probably pick up diagramming techniques just from watching a few 7sage videos.

Same with LR. There were probably < 5 things I learned from the 500+ page Manhattan LR book.

I conjecture that people consider those books helpful not because of any information in them, but because they force the reader to practice with example questions and drills.

I'm going to read the LGB again, and I'm definitely not saying that books are useless, but I'm looking at my ~$200 stack of prep books and I don't think they were worth the cost.

[Rigo]

I think you have a biased view because you had a high diagnostic.

I learned mostly everything from books. I didn't know to identify premises and conclusion in the beginning.

[msp8]

It seems like almost all of one's improvement comes from practice and thinking about the questions, not from picking up tips and tricks from books.

What do you base this on?

[Rigo]

Sure, drilling and practicing questions is important, but diving right into that without knowing what you should be doing is dumb and you'd likely reinforce bad habits.

[RZ5646]

It seems like almost all of one's improvement comes from practice and thinking about the questions, not from picking up tips and tricks from books.

What do you base this on?

I'm generalizing from my own experience. I may be wrong... I'm just throwing my view out there.

[msp8]

It seems like almost all of one's improvement comes from practice and thinking about the questions, not from picking up tips and tricks from books.

What do you base this on?

I'm generalizing from my own experience. I may be wrong... I'm just throwing my view out there.

I think you're right that prep books are useful in that they force an individual to work through and drill, and just spend time on whatever task. But I think for the vast majority, grasping the fundamentals and 'theory' is more important than drilling. People can drill and not understand the intricacies involved, leading them to pick up bad habits that 'seem to work', etc.

ETA: even for me. Any time I go through a stretch of taking PTs, I then return to skim through prep books/my notes, to see if I can pick up anything that I didn't before/anything I've missed/not remembered. I often feel this is a waste of time, but whatever -- it's useful to re-enforce proper approaches.

[RZ5646]

How the hell does TLS not handle daylight savings time automatically?

[Shakawkaw]

It seems like almost all of one's improvement comes from practice and thinking about the questions, not from picking up tips and tricks from books.

What do you base this on?

I'm generalizing from my own experience. I may be wrong... I'm just throwing my view out there.

Egregious sample size flaw. Shame, OP.

[JackelJ]

I think you have a biased view because you had a high diagnostic.

I learned mostly everything from books. I didn't know to identify premises and conclusion in the beginning.

I also learned pretty much everything from books. I never really used the skills tested on the LSAT before I began studying so it was all new to me. I think I spent almost 2k on study material so far between the BP course, cambridge bundle, extra PTs I didn't have, and a couple books. I don't really look at any of it as a waste of money because I've already drastically increased my chances of getting into a better school with less debt.

[biggestlawman]

I think you have a biased view because you had a high diagnostic.

I learned mostly everything from books. I didn't know to identify premises and conclusion in the beginning.

I also learned pretty much everything from books. I never really used the skills tested on the LSAT before I began studying so it was all new to me. I think I spent almost 2k on study material so far between the BP course, cambridge bundle, extra PTs I didn't have, and a couple books. I don't really look at any of it as a waste of money because I've already drastically increased my chances of getting into a better school with less debt.

I am willing to throw money to learn LG and reading for structure in RC.

[The Abyss]

I had taken a formal logic class during my undergrad, so I was familiar most of the conditional logic used on LSAT. However, prep books have helped me understand how the formal logic applies to the LSAT.

[RZ5646]

I am willing to throw money to learn LG and reading for structure in RC.

I am too, but it seems like books can't teach you those things. You have to teach yourself through many hours of practice.

[Rigo]

So off-base, RZnumbers.

[biggestlawman]

I am willing to throw money to learn LG and reading for structure in RC.

I am too, but it seems like books can't teach you those things. You have to teach yourself through many hours of practice.

No need to reinvent the wheel. A mistake for sure! Read books, practice, read again or read some other book, practice, read..... and so on!

[biggestlawman]

So off-base, RZnumbers.

Agreed!

[RZ5646]

Whatever guys. I read two prep books and I still can't get 180. Obviously it's the books' fault.

Any poll ideas? I still want to do "how many hours per week do you study?" but many of us are on spring break, returning from spring break, or giving up on work in anticipation of spring break, so it might be better to wait on that if we want somewhat accurate results.

[biggestlawman]

Whatever guys. I read two prep books and I still can't get 180. Obviously it's the books' fault.

Any poll ideas? I still want to do "how many hours per week do you study?" but many of us are on spring break, returning from spring break, or giving up on work in anticipation of spring break, so it might be better to wait on that if we want somewhat accurate results.

Preferred location for spring break. I personally love Aruba!

[biggestlawman]

Also preferred coffee brand. Sbux, Pete's, Intelligentsia, Kimbo, Lavazza, etc.