The Official September 2014 Study Group Forum

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Mon May 05, 2014 2:49 pm

Post removed.

Rechto · Post by **Rechto** » Tue May 06, 2014 10:35 am

Hello Everybody,

Although I just recently joined TLS I have been a checking this site out daily for the past few weeks and it has been beyond helpful and motivational. I'm in the process of writing a Honors Thesis, and that commitment - along with 17 SH and a job - made it a little too difficult to juggle rigorous LSAT prep, thus I have decided to take the LSAT in late September (the 27th if I remember correctly).

In early July I start my Testmasters Prep Course and I was wondering what you'll thought about doing some degree of self-prep prior to the start of the class. I inherited all of the Powerscore LSAT Bibles and I have done some work in both the LR & LG sections. I was looking forward to getting back to work after Finals but it has recently come to my attention that in most cases it is not advisable to do self-prep in anticipation of a Prep-course. Apparently the potential of forming bad habits and learning a methodology that is not analogous to your prep course instructor's is adequate to discourage any self-prep preceding the class.

Like most of you I don't want to waste a second until the test date so this viewpoint is honestly disheartening. I'm considering switching over to self-prep with the Testmasters material or perhaps looking over Mike Kim's The LSAT Trainer, but if the consensus says otherwise than I guess I'll have to just patiently wait.

Cheers,

Rechto

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Tue May 06, 2014 10:56 am

Rechto wrote:Hello Everybody,

Although I just recently joined TLS I have been a checking this site out daily for the past few weeks and it has been beyond helpful and motivational. I'm in the process of writing a Honors Thesis, and that commitment - along with 17 SH and a job - made it a little too difficult to juggle rigorous LSAT prep, thus I have decided to take the LSAT in late September (the 27th if I remember correctly).

In early July I start my Testmasters Prep Course and I was wondering what you'll thought about doing some degree of self-prep prior to the start of the class. I inherited all of the Powerscore LSAT Bibles and I have done some work in both the LR & LG sections. I was looking forward to getting back to work after Finals but it has recently come to my attention that in most cases it is not advisable to do self-prep in anticipation of a Prep-course. Apparently the potential of forming bad habits and learning a methodology that is not analogous to your prep course instructor's is adequate to discourage any self-prep preceding the class.

Like most of you I don't want to waste a second until the test date so this viewpoint is honestly disheartening. I'm considering switching over to self-prep with the Testmasters material or perhaps looking over Mike Kim's The LSAT Trainer, but if the consensus says otherwise than I guess I'll have to just patiently wait.

Cheers,

Rechto

Your (perhaps unreasonably) assuming you need a course. Here is what I said about courses in another thread.

WaltGrace83 wrote:I took Manhattan's online class. It was GREAT. However, it was not for me. I like to really dig deep into question types and spend lots of time working on them. A week to work on one LR type, one RC type, and one LG type is simply not enough time for me. It takes me about two weeks just to drill and thoroughly review an LR type. HOWEVER, I would still do it again. Why? The benefits are amazing. All the PTs, ability to watch lectures again, access to the forums with unlimited posting privileges, and a generally great group of instructors. I love Manhattan.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Tue May 06, 2014 11:19 am

Post removed.

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Tue May 06, 2014 11:21 am

Rechto wrote:Hello Everybody,

Although I just recently joined TLS I have been a checking this site out daily for the past few weeks and it has been beyond helpful and motivational. I'm in the process of writing a Honors Thesis, and that commitment - along with 17 SH and a job - made it a little too difficult to juggle rigorous LSAT prep, thus I have decided to take the LSAT in late September (the 27th if I remember correctly).

In early July I start my Testmasters Prep Course and I was wondering what you'll thought about doing some degree of self-prep prior to the start of the class. I inherited all of the Powerscore LSAT Bibles and I have done some work in both the LR & LG sections. I was looking forward to getting back to work after Finals but it has recently come to my attention that in most cases it is not advisable to do self-prep in anticipation of a Prep-course. Apparently the potential of forming bad habits and learning a methodology that is not analogous to your prep course instructor's is adequate to discourage any self-prep preceding the class.

Like most of you I don't want to waste a second until the test date so this viewpoint is honestly disheartening. I'm considering switching over to self-prep with the Testmasters material or perhaps looking over Mike Kim's The LSAT Trainer, but if the consensus says otherwise than I guess I'll have to just patiently wait.

Cheers,

Rechto

Agree with Walt.

Did someone tell you that?

You would be doing yourself a huge disservice to wait until July to start studying for the sept test. That's basically giving yourself 2.5 months. IMO that's not enough time.

Save your money. Don't take a course. Buy the Cambridge packets and a few books, then get to work.

Get the 7sage app for LG, and hang out in the Manhattan forums for LR and RC help.

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Tue May 06, 2014 11:44 am

I wouldn't go so far as to say that you SHOULDN'T take a class. However, I actually believe that the online ones are the best because you are able to rematch all the lectures. If you do take this Testmasters class, I would probably say to hold off for this cycle. Most people (again, I think unreasonably) assume that 3 months is enough time. I might be biased.....but I think 6 months to a year is probably much better.

santoki · Post by **santoki** » Tue May 06, 2014 12:39 pm

I took Testmasters, didn't have the greatest experience. Sure the class size wasn't huge, the teacher was okay, and there is a TON of material they give you.

But say you want to take the test again--you don't get the answer keys to all of the questions you have. Your online resources are cut off, and it's a large fee ($500 or more) to get it back.

I would recommend it to someone in the 140s/150s looking to get into the 160s, but not if you are in the 160s looking to break 170.

The last push to get past 170 is best achieved by self study or tutor, in my opinion

Christine (MLSAT) · Post by **Christine (MLSAT)** » Tue May 06, 2014 12:45 pm

I worry that you've been given bits and pieces of reasonable advice but all jumbled up with bad advice.

First, the question of whether or not to do a course at all: No one can answer this question for you completely. TLS as a community tends to disfavor courses - a lot of people here have the drive, organization, and time management skills to put themselves through the dedicated process without that externally imposed structure. However, there are also a lot of people that have trouble organizing their own efforts - for those people, a classroom course can provide them with much needed structure. Even for dedicated self-studiers, like WaltGrace1983, it can serve as a jumping off point to begin a far more thorough analysis of the subject matters that are introduced in the course.

As a rep for Manhattan LSAT, I'm clearly biased toward the unfettered awesomeness of OUR courses (though I can't speak for anyone else's),

so you do have to take everything that I say here in that light.

Now, if you decide that your ARE going to take class AND self-study, then the ideal timeline for that is class first, then self-study. That way the class can introduce topics, give you a foundation, and serve as that jumping off point for your own deeper analysis and review.

HOWEVER - if you have already decided that you are going to take a particular class, and that class is scheduled 2.5 months before the September LSAT, then you no longer have the option of self-studying much after the class is over. At that point, the only decision to make is: are you going to self-study beforehand or aren't you?

There are risks on both sides of that decision. If you don't self-study beforehand, that's just lost opportunity - it's a ton of time that you *could* have been spending deepening your understanding of the LSAT. The exact costs of that lost time can't be calculated, but they are surely substantial. On the other hand, yes, there is a risk you'll develop some bad habits on your own that are then harder to 'unlearn' than if you knew nothing. But you can mitigate that risk by not just studying *entirely* on your own, but using the plethora of structural resources at your disposal.

[Warning, shameless plug for Manhattan materials coming]: For instance, if you get yourself a copy of the Manhattan LSAT LR Strategy Guide, work through the chapter on Necessary Assumptions, drill small groups of Necessary Assumption questions from the Cambridge packets, THOROUGHLY review your work (why correct answers are correct, why incorrect answers are incorrect), check your understanding against the discussions/explanations over at the Manhattan LSAT forums, rinse, lather, and repeat - the likelihood of you creating bad habits diminishes *substantially*. And the likelihood of you giving yourself a solid foundation rises exponentially.

Here's what I'd recommend. Get yourself the best resources that are out there - this board has a general consensus on what those tend to be. Set up a structured plan for yourself to get a solid foundation *before* that class begins. At that point, just before the class begins, take a hard look at what you've been able to accomplish on your own and whether the support of some outside structure would be beneficial as you continue.

In absolutely no circumstance would I recommend that you actively choose NOT to prep between now and July, just because that's when the course begins.

urbanecologie · Post by **urbanecologie** » Tue May 06, 2014 1:02 pm

So I have a question for your guys--is the February test solely for retakes? I know that it's undisclosed, so you won't be able to assess your strengths and weakness after the fact. With that in mind, would taking the test for the first time in February be a bad idea?

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Tue May 06, 2014 3:24 pm

Post removed.

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Tue May 06, 2014 4:04 pm

I have been drilling games all day because I have somewhat neglected it the last few weeks.

I am SO. TIRED. of putting dogs in dog shows, people on busses, and fishes in aquariums. These people are just making life too hard! WHY THE STIPULATIONS?! These people are the neurotic ones who "have to" do things in a certain way. Ugh...

............

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Tue May 06, 2014 4:15 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:I have been drilling games all day because I have somewhat neglected it the last few weeks.

I am SO. TIRED. of putting dogs in dog shows, people on busses, and fishes in aquariums. These people are just making life too hard! WHY THE STIPULATIONS?! These people are the neurotic ones who "have to" do things in a certain way. Ugh...

............

Don't forget about the dogs winning prizes!

I'm like that with LR today.

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Tue May 06, 2014 4:22 pm

BillPackets wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:I have been drilling games all day because I have somewhat neglected it the last few weeks.

I am SO. TIRED. of putting dogs in dog shows, people on busses, and fishes in aquariums. These people are just making life too hard! WHY THE STIPULATIONS?! These people are the neurotic ones who "have to" do things in a certain way. Ugh...

............
Don't forget about the dogs winning prizes!

I'm like that with LR today.

So your tired of dust clouds that make dinosaurs extinct, alternative sources of fuel, and global warming I see....

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Tue May 06, 2014 4:32 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:I have been drilling games all day because I have somewhat neglected it the last few weeks.

I am SO. TIRED. of putting dogs in dog shows, people on busses, and fishes in aquariums. These people are just making life too hard! WHY THE STIPULATIONS?! These people are the neurotic ones who "have to" do things in a certain way. Ugh...

............
Don't forget about the dogs winning prizes!

I'm like that with LR today.
So your tired of dust clouds that make dinosaurs extinct, alternative sources of fuel, and global warming I see....

+1

mrhaart · Post by **mrhaart** » Tue May 06, 2014 6:15 pm

What is everyone's current Full PT schedule? Once a week? Once every two weeks? Haven't devised one just yet due to drilling/learning concepts? Anyone doing more than one/week?

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Tue May 06, 2014 11:30 pm

mrhaart wrote:What is everyone's current Full PT schedule? Once a week? Once every two weeks? Haven't devised one just yet due to drilling/learning concepts? Anyone doing more than one/week?

I haven't done one yet. I didn't even do an initial diagnostic.

Planning on starting to PT the first or second week of June.

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Wed May 07, 2014 8:59 pm

Today I started RC.

The only question type that really bugged me were the analogous situation questions, where you read a passage about, like, the Big Bang theory then have to match it to a line about kids playing in a river.

GauchoMarx · Post by **GauchoMarx** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:12 pm

mrhaart wrote:What is everyone's current Full PT schedule? Once a week? Once every two weeks? Haven't devised one just yet due to drilling/learning concepts? Anyone doing more than one/week?

I haven't taken a PT since my initial diagnostic as I'm currently going through the PS Bible for LR (I've already finished the LG Bible) and drilling. I plan on taking another PT soon to see where I'm at and I'm thinking I'll take a PT every few weeks during my drilling process, and once I've finished drilling I'll start taking a couple per week.

gnomgnomuch · Post by **gnomgnomuch** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:20 pm

went 94/100 on weaken questions....... awwww yiiiiiiis.

In regards to PT schedule, i take one around every month and a half to see my progress, but i wont do it consistently until i finish drilling through Cambridge packets twice.

146 on diagnostic
151 6 weeks later
160 6 weeks later

if i can get to a 165 the next time im taking a pt (2nd week of june) ill be ecstatic.

happy studying =D

su_ · Post by **su_** » Thu May 08, 2014 2:30 pm

I scored 154 on my first PT ever. It was under times circumstances and I had to guess on all the games questions besides for 5 of them. My best category was RC by far. What kind of gains can I see from the powerscore bibles? I started working thru their logic games one.

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Thu May 08, 2014 4:02 pm

su_ wrote:I scored 154 on my first PT ever. It was under times circumstances and I had to guess on all the games questions besides for 5 of them. My best category was RC by far. What kind of gains can I see from the powerscore bibles? I started working thru their logic games one.

Your LG will improve dramatically. So much so that you will wonder why were you even guessing before.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Fri May 09, 2014 2:58 pm

Post removed.

Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Fri May 09, 2014 3:40 pm

mornincounselor wrote:Is anyone else going through the Sufficient Assumption packet? I find a number of correct choices use the phrase "at least some."

I haven't gone through it yet, I am re-reading the assumption sections. I am not feeling very confident about assumption questions as a whole right now.

BigCityDreams · Post by **BigCityDreams** » Sat May 10, 2014 2:20 am

Checking in for the September test! I am currently enrolled in the Powerscore Lsat class. I plan to go through the material again after the class ends the first week of june and self-study until September. Diagnostic on first day was a 146, we take our next test on Monday. Im hoping that I have made some improvement.

mrhaart · Post by **mrhaart** » Sat May 10, 2014 2:31 am

mornincounselor wrote:Is anyone else going through the Sufficient Assumption packet? I find a number of correct choices use the phrase "at least some."

Starting Sufficient Assumptions tomorrow. Spent an hour earlier today reviewing the Trainer's notes on Sufficient Assumption & Principle Support and will probably spend 2-3 hours drilling SA tomorrow -- I'll let you know how it goes. Did you start from Category 2/3 on? 1 on?