The Official June 2014 Study Group Forum

[esquirelhomme]

Checking In.

The June 2014 LSAT seems like the most palpable cycle for me to do well in. I have read the LG & LR Bibles and the Manhattan LG & LR guides. So far, for LG, I have drilled Relative Ordering and Simple Ordering. For LR (all Cambridge level 1s and 2s from PTs 1-20, un-timed, focusing on implementing learned strategies and on accuracy), I have drilled Inference, Principle (Apply), Point at Issue, Paradox, Assumptions, and now working on Strengthen questions. So far, so good. As for RC, I'll start focusing more on that soon.

And the struggle continues.

[asif93]

Checking in as well.

I have purchased the LSAT blog 7 month study plan, the powerscore books and the manhattan books. I wanted to integrate the Manhattan books into my study plan but am having difficulty since the logic game classification is different. Any suggestions?

[esquirelhomme]

Checking in as well.

I have purchased the LSAT blog 7 month study plan, the powerscore books and the manhattan books. I wanted to integrate the Manhattan books into my study plan but am having difficulty since the logic game classification is different. Any suggestions?

They're essentially the same thing. On the LSAT Blog's 7 months study guide, the games are:

Sequencing, Linear = MLSAT's Ordering

Grouping = MLSAT's Grouping

Combination = MLSAT's 3D Grouping and Hybrid

Hope this helps!

[DKjunior]

Officially checking in today. I didn't think there would be a group made for next June already, but I'm in this for the long haul.

I'm a retaker from a couple years ago. Right now in the process of gathering up old materials and seeing what I need to get. I basically plan on starting from scratch since it has been a little while. Hoping things come a lot easier than when I first started studying.

Looking forward to studying with everyone!

[10052014]

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[10052014]

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[suitsfan]

Checking in. I just began studying this weekend. I'm using Manhattan, PowerScore, SuperPrep and the 7 month study plan from the LSAT blog.

Good luck to everyone!

[Fox]

Joining up. Planning on June and a retake afterward. I'm buying the PS books as soon as I get paid, right now practicing the problems using 10 Actual, Official LSAT Preptests. I don't really know where or how to start so I'm just jumping in.

[VSFula14]

Checking in as well. I haven't purchased anything as of yet. I'm currently in the Peace Corps and won't be back in the states until April. Going to gather study guides and PTs when I am home briefly for Christmas and start in January, studying in between projects and not neglecting my host family. Planning on getting the LR and LG bibles, SuperPrep as well as all available Practice Tests.

Questions:

Are Manhattan books better than Cambridge or is just a matter of preference? I've been reading this forum for a while and the available material and study advice is a bit overwhelming. Not to mention all the references to fee waivers, app cycles and the like. I never really thought much about law school during undergrad (which will be 5 years ago sooner than I care to think) so I'm new to the entire process.

Cheers and happy studying!

[DKjunior]

Are Manhattan books better than Cambridge or is just a matter of preference? I've been reading this forum for a while and the available material and study advice is a bit overwhelming. Not to mention all the references to fee waivers, app cycles and the like. I never really thought much about law school during undergrad (which will be 5 years ago sooner than I care to think) so I'm new to the entire process.

Cheers and happy studying!

With regards to LG, I've personally had success starting with the Powerscore Logic Games Bible. The Manhattan RC guide was good. I will be going through it again, but I remember it having a pretty good approach. I recently purchased the Manhattan LR guide which I haven't cracked open yet, but I've read positive reviews on it as well. I went with Powerscore LR bible last time, and while it was okay, I need to be much sharper on LR and I'm hoping more practice + the Manhattan guide will help with things "clicking" better than I picked up with the LR bible.

Waivers, app cycles, scholarships are in the future right now. I wouldn't spend too much energy worrying about those quite yet. You'll get info when you sign up for an LSAC account.

[paglababa]

Checking in as well. I haven't purchased anything as of yet. I'm currently in the Peace Corps and won't be back in the states until April. Going to gather study guides and PTs when I am home briefly for Christmas and start in January, studying in between projects and not neglecting my host family. Planning on getting the LR and LG bibles, SuperPrep as well as all available Practice Tests.

Questions:

Are Manhattan books better than Cambridge or is just a matter of preference? I've been reading this forum for a while and the available material and study advice is a bit overwhelming. Not to mention all the references to fee waivers, app cycles and the like. I never really thought much about law school during undergrad (which will be 5 years ago sooner than I care to think) so I'm new to the entire process.

Cheers and happy studying!

Manhattan is excellent. All I would purchase as a supplement are the cambridge LR grouped by type package. Its $80 on their website for all of the PDFs. It's just practice material so you can drill over 1900 LR questions type and hone your skills.

[esquirelhomme]

Checking in as well. I haven't purchased anything as of yet. I'm currently in the Peace Corps and won't be back in the states until April. Going to gather study guides and PTs when I am home briefly for Christmas and start in January, studying in between projects and not neglecting my host family. Planning on getting the LR and LG bibles, SuperPrep as well as all available Practice Tests.

Questions:

Are Manhattan books better than Cambridge or is just a matter of preference? I've been reading this forum for a while and the available material and study advice is a bit overwhelming. Not to mention all the references to fee waivers, app cycles and the like. I never really thought much about law school during undergrad (which will be 5 years ago sooner than I care to think) so I'm new to the entire process.

Cheers and happy studying!

The Manhattan books are actual guides where you primarily learn strategies and practice a bit at the end of each chapter. The Cambridge pdfs/books are basically just real LSAT questions categorized and subcategorized by question type, then placed in 4 difficulty levels. Cambridge is great for drilling, which should be done after learning the strategies.

If your question was meant to ask Manhattan vs Powerscore, then I'd say get both. Powerscore is more technical and formulaic (which makes it a more introductory book, at least for me) and Manhattan provides a more intuitive approach. Powerscore's Formal Logic section is unparalleled. Manhattan's core strategy is great, as it's a bit more meta and will help you with assumption family questions, which take up a huge chunk on the LR sections. I'd say get both, if you have the money, and start with PS then move on to Manhattan.

[WaltGrace83]

Officially checking in.

I am almost done with a Manhattan online course (I had the cash, so I figured, why not? I would get my money back in scholly money with an extra 1-2 points anyway). However, now the drilling begins! I am going to basically redo everything I've learned with Manhattan with Cambridge packets. I made a really detailed Excel spreadsheet in which I am going through every single answer choice and explaining it. My diagnostic 2 years ago that I took free with Kaplan was a 151. Hopefully, I'd be around a 160 now but I am not going to psych myself out with a bad new diagnostic until I feel comfortable enough to which it will be a new indicator of my actual ability. Maybe I'll take a diagnostic in December or January?

I then graduate in December and hit the books for 5 months straight, perfecting my game!

172+ is the goal!!

[DKjunior]

I am almost done with a Manhattan online course

How did you like it? I thought all I would need is some motivation and plenty of prep books, but I'm seriously considering going with a course (other than Kaplan which is unfortunately the only classroom option in my area,) or having a few sessions with a tutor. I'm looking at Manhattan and Testmasters right now.

[alexrodriguez]

WaltGrace83,

I would suggest taking your next PT on the same day the test is administered in December.

Then you can guage where you need to focus most of your energy over the next five months.

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I believe I am showing signs of burning out. I haven't studied in four days and I'm not sure I will study today either. I'll try to make up for it this weekend with a solid 15 to 20 hours. Stay strong ladies and gentleman. A war is coming.

[alexrodriguez]

If any of you plan on making a day out of studying like I often do on Saturday and Sunday let me suggest making your study time fall under the typical work day of 8 to 5. Go eat dinner. Go to the gym. Read a book.

[WaltGrace83]

I am almost done with a Manhattan online course

How did you like it? I thought all I would need is some motivation and plenty of prep books, but I'm seriously considering going with a course (other than Kaplan which is unfortunately the only classroom option in my area,) or having a few sessions with a tutor. I'm looking at Manhattan and Testmasters right now.

As I said, it WILL pay for itself in just 1-2 LSAT points (assuming that you get above the 165+ range in which there is no doubt anyone that works hard will do). I took it because I had the cash and could afford it. Do I think it is necessary? Well not exactly for a lot of people but it is great. The teachers really do know their stuff and you can rewatch lectures, go to review sessions, etc. I would recommend it. However, my only problem was that I wish I had more time to devote to the LSAT this summer while doing it. It was hard to keep up with everything while working so much.

[DKjunior]

As I said, it WILL pay for itself in just 1-2 LSAT points (assuming that you get above the 165+ range in which there is no doubt anyone that works hard will do). I took it because I had the cash and could afford it. Do I think it is necessary? Well not exactly for a lot of people but it is great. The teachers really do know their stuff and you can rewatch lectures, go to review sessions, etc. I would recommend it. However, my only problem was that I wish I had more time to devote to the LSAT this summer while doing it. It was hard to keep up with everything while working so much.

That's something I'm concerned about this time. Last time I took the LSAT, I had a lot of time I could devote to study. Now I'd have to balance the class with working full time. I'm hoping to get on a routine now so that when I start to study regularly I won't have to worry about changing my schedule.

[Angie85]

Checking in. About to purchase the 7-month guide. Gluck everyone!

[10052014]

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[WaltGrace83]

I just finished my Manhattan class on Sunday. I definitely feel more comfortable on the first half of the class then the second half - my schedule was so much busier as the summer unfolded. Now, however, I start really drilling the Cambridge packets along with reviewing. I am going to rewatch every lecture, reread the guides, then drill. When I feel comfortable, I will move on while still reviewing old stuff.

[Straw_Mandible]

LSAT Comrades -- Who else is reading the LSAT Trainer? If you are, let us bow our heads and observe a moment of silent appreciation for Mike's pure and unadulterated genius. If you have not purchased/started it yet, drop everything and get your hands on this book. Its strategies are simple and effective. Its language is clear and encouraging. Its random tangents are neither random nor tangential, and unfailingly entertaining. Its focus on fundamentals, habits, and psychological "elephants" makes it the perfect place to start in this very long and (hopefully) very rewarding journey. For those of you reading it, what do you think?!

[WaltGrace83]

LSAT Comrades -- Who else is reading the LSAT Trainer? If you are, let us bow our heads and observe a moment of silent appreciation for Mike's pure and unadulterated genius. If you have not purchased/started it yet, drop everything and get your hands on this book. Its strategies are simple and effective. Its language is clear and encouraging. Its random tangents are neither random nor tangential, and unfailingly entertaining. Its focus on fundamentals, habits, and psychological "elephants" makes it the perfect place to start in this very long and (hopefully) very rewarding journey. For those of you reading it, what do you think?!

I was going to buy that! What is so great about it? Considering this guy was basically Manhattan, how does this differ from Manhattan's guides?

[Straw_Mandible]

Mike actually gave a really detailed response about the difference between The Trainer and Manhattan: (And I should mention, in working through the Trainer, these differences have been very obvious.)

In my head at least, the Trainer is very different from Manhattan LSAT --

There is no logic chain, no assumption family, no PEAR, no reading scale -- all of these things have been useful to students, and they are not available in the Trainer.

In their place, I explain the exam in terms of a few basic reading skills and reasoning skills, and in terms of mental discipline—I spend 600 pages discussing every micro-facet and challenge of the LSAT in terms of these very basic components. I would like to think that this allows my book to simultaneously be both simpler and more in-depth than any other LSAT product that exists.

In terms of the support and materials you get for buying into the systems --

Manhattan can offer far more resources, and far more expansive resources, than I can -- depending on what you are going to find useful, there are forums, videos, classes, the arcade, challenge games, and, most importantly, access to a team of all-star teachers. Especially if you are able to develop personal relationships with these teachers or get individual time with them, they are an incredible resource. I know that when I was teaching there, several times, students of mine ended up finding the advice of some other Manhattan instructors more useful than mine, and ended up gravitating toward those other teachers, who were able to better provide these students with what they needed. You obviously don't get all of those things with the Trainer.

On the Trainer side -- I think the big benefit is that the book is meant to serve as the main focus of your studies, and as such can really stand up as a complete resource. All the other learning tools that I make -- the schedules, organizers, infographics, articles, and such, will always be free, and they will always be meant to augment the book.

Finally, in terms of how the two were developed --

I created the Manhattan system and wrote the original books and courses and such with another guy named Dan Gonzalez (who is now the head of Manhattan Prep). At that point, Dan was much better at developing curriculum than I was, and I think that creating the Manhattan material is probably the only time in my life when I can honestly say that working in collaboration with someone enhanced my abilities -- I think we both felt that the product we put out was much better because we had worked together. And, since their release, the books have continued to get better because of the input of other talented teachers.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the most significant and successful LSAT learning system up to this point, the Powerscore/TestMasters/Blueprint system, was also the outcome of two people (Robin S. and David K.) working together (or at least that's the story I've heard -- I could be totally wrong -- please don't sue me Robin).

Most LSAT learning systems suffer because they reflect the biases, strengths, and weaknesses of the writers (I think you can sense that bias every time you read a solution or a strategy and realize it's not at all what you needed) -- unfortunately, students are in an awful position to judge whether they, or the lessons and strategies, are at fault.

I think having two different writers helped make Manhattan a very complete product, and obviously a lot of students have found the Manhattan learning tools to be exactly what they needed.

On the flip side—personally, relative to when I developed the Manhattan materials, I am at a whole other level in terms of understanding the LSAT, and understanding exactly what students need in order to get better at it. I'm very confident the Trainer reflects that.

Hope that answers your question, and I hope that doesn't sound like too much self-promotion. I'm going to be around here a while, and I'll be available to help anyone who wants the help --

Mike

ETA: I plan on completing the Manhattan books as a supplement to The Trainer. I have been digging into them alongside the corresponding lessons in The Trainer. This process has been very helpful so far, and I strongly recommend it. The Trainer is all about fundamentals and big picture understanding, although it does also offer specific strategies and targeted practice to solidify those fundamentals. The Manhattan series tends to capitalize on strategies for specific question types more completely than The Trainer does, and for that it has been very useful.

[WaltGrace83]

Well, in either case, spending $40 bucks for even a one point increase is worth it. I am definitely going to buy that. However, I am going to wait until around Christmas to buy this (hopefully after I get drilling, drilling, drilling). It seems like it would be great as both a supplement of Manhattan and something that Manhattan could supplement. Either way guys, let's just get a 170+ and be done with it.