June 2011 Study Group Forum

[jim-green]

PT52
94/100 --> 176

Congratulations. Are you retaking this PT?

[theaether]

thank you!, no everything i do is brand new

[Strange]

Just got another -1 on a timed RC section, this time on PT27. I really need to be more diligent about marking questions that need to be revisited. This time, it helped me pick up a point but one of the questions I didn't mark for later, I should have and it ended up being my only miss. I know if I had looked at it again I would have picked the right one.

That's 2/3 past RC sections I've done to get a -1 in... I know the older ones are easier, but I'm hoping this is the start of a new trend!

[mickeyD]

What do you guys think about taking PTs where you've seen some of the questions already? I only have about 8 PTs left, and since, after finals finish this week, I'll have literally zero commitments aside from studying between now and the test, I can easily complete a PT and a thorough review in one day.

With 8 PTs I'll only have 1 for every 3 days. While I plan on drilling problem areas in between, I don't think drilling for 2 straight days is really going to benefit me as much as perhaps taking "spoiled" PTs instead. Thoughts?

[soj]

What do you guys think about taking PTs where you've seen some of the questions already? I only have about 8 PTs left, and since, after finals finish this week, I'll have literally zero commitments aside from studying between now and the test, I can easily complete a PT and a thorough review in one day.

With 8 PTs I'll only have 1 for every 3 days. While I plan on drilling problem areas in between, I don't think drilling for 2 straight days is really going to benefit me as much as perhaps taking "spoiled" PTs instead. Thoughts?

Redo old ones you bombed. That's what I'm doing.

I went over 85 (~30%) of the LR Qs that have given me trouble, and got 6 wrong. I'm furious. These are questions I've extensively analyzed; it's been a while since I've seen them, but this is ridiculous. I should be learning from my mistakes. Let's just hope this is rust from having taken the weekend off. I'll be going through another third of the Qs tomorrow, and hope to do much better.

[Eichörnchen]

I like Soj's LR suggestion. That is similar to what I would do. A few days ago I consulted my list of LR questions I had gotten wrong (or was very unsure of). I took a screenshot of each question and put them all in a word doc, printed it and cut them out. I would suggest doing something similar, and then doing the questions and seeing which you get right and wrong. After that, put the answer on the back of the question along with an explanation for why that is the correct answer. Then keep the stack of cards as a kind of LR flashcard pile for quick reviews in the future. It's work intensive, but it's a way to go through all of your LR problems and know you've addressed them all by test day.

Another resource I find interesting is a list of all fallacies that are useful for LR. I wouldn't try memorizing it, but I think it's worth a few read-throughs because it might help you spot wrong answers faster and be more sure if you recognize
them off the bat as fallacies. If you don't have a list like this and would like one, just pm me your email and I'll send you the doc.

[geverett]

I kind of wish there was a "like" button for posts on the forums.

[Eichörnchen]

I kind of wish there was a "like" button for posts on the forums.

Haha I think about that all the time

[theaether]

Read that you can now withdraw from the test up until the day before the test and not have it show up on your record. This is pretty good, given that many people don't know with great confidence where they're at until the last week leading up to the test.

[mickeyD]

I decided to supplement my PTing by doing PTs 29-38 in "The Next 10" book. Although I've seen some of the questions, the mixed review is still very helpful, and it's doubtful that I'll have seen more than half of the questions on a given section. Also, I have never drilled a RC section before so the RC sections will all be new and accurate.

The numbers in parentheses would be the raw scores if I subtracted questions that I know I missed when I saw them the first time. I had seen 15/50 LR Q's before at some point over the past 6 months, and got 3/15 wrong the first time I did them.

PT29
LR1: 0 (-2)
RC: -1
LG: 0
LR2: -1 (-2)
Raw: -2 (-5)
Scaled: 180 (177)

LR: new: 34/35 seen: 15/15
LG: new: ---- seen: 24/24
RC: new: 26/27 seen: ----

All in all, it was good practice. Not going to read too much into the scaled scores. I'm happy to see that I bounced back in RC from my last exam, and I'm not really too upset about the one I missed. Focused on getting 15 Q's in 15 minutes, unfortunately that caused me to miss Q #1 on LR2 .

[OhOkay]

Read that you can now withdraw from the test up until the day before the test and not have it show up on your record. This is pretty good, given that many people don't know with great confidence where they're at until the last week leading up to the test.

Wow, you're right. No refund, but the test won't show up on our records. Phew, that is a huge psychological load off me -- perhaps now I can study hardcore until June 6th without so much pressure getting me down!

[BlaqBella]

I like Soj's LR suggestion. That is similar to what I would do. A few days ago I consulted my list of LR questions I had gotten wrong (or was very unsure of). I took a screenshot of each question and put them all in a word doc, printed it and cut them out. I would suggest doing something similar, and then doing the questions and seeing which you get right and wrong. After that, put the answer on the back of the question along with an explanation for why that is the correct answer. Then keep the stack of cards as a kind of LR flashcard pile for quick reviews in the future. It's work intensive, but it's a way to go through all of your LR problems and know you've addressed them all by test day.

Another resource I find interesting is a list of all fallacies that are useful for LR. I wouldn't try memorizing it, but I think it's worth a few read-throughs because it might help you spot wrong answers faster and be more sure if you recognize
them off the bat as fallacies. If you don't have a list like this and would like one, just pm me your email and I'll send you the doc.

I'd be interested in receiving the document. I recently sent you a PM with my contact. Please confirm receipt. Thanks!!

[iphone7]

Strange PT Today

PT 43
RC -8
LR1 -0
LR2 -1
LG -0

Raw 92 Scaled 173

I took a week off from LSAT due to finals and burnout, so that might account for the terrible RC score. I didn't get the first passage of the RC section which killed me. Overall, I know that the RC score is an outlier and I should be able to reel it in. Getting a 173 while missing 8 on one section really gives me confidence.

Is atlas the best way for me to control my RC score and is it even worth it to get the book while taking 5 tests per week until gametime? Thanks.

[Eichörnchen]

Eichörnchen wrote:
I like Soj's LR suggestion. That is similar to what I would do. A few days ago I consulted my list of LR questions I had gotten wrong (or was very unsure of). I took a screenshot of each question and put them all in a word doc, printed it and cut them out. I would suggest doing something similar, and then doing the questions and seeing which you get right and wrong. After that, put the answer on the back of the question along with an explanation for why that is the correct answer. Then keep the stack of cards as a kind of LR flashcard pile for quick reviews in the future. It's work intensive, but it's a way to go through all of your LR problems and know you've addressed them all by test day.

Another resource I find interesting is a list of all fallacies that are useful for LR. I wouldn't try memorizing it, but I think it's worth a few read-throughs because it might help you spot wrong answers faster and be more sure if you recognize
them off the bat as fallacies. If you don't have a list like this and would like one, just pm me your email and I'll send you the doc.


I'd be interested in receiving the document. I recently sent you a PM with my contact. Please confirm receipt. Thanks!!

Fear not, I got your PM. I've just been offline for a few hours.

Read that you can now withdraw from the test up until the day before the test and not have it show up on your record. This is pretty good, given that many people don't know with great confidence where they're at until the last week leading up to the test.

Hey, where did you find this info? I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this.

[jim-green]

Just got killed on PT52 LG4. What the heck was that? It needed like 4 diagrams or something. Ran out of time answering the questions and forgot to guess on the last two. Cringing from grading it. Anyone done PT52's G4 yet? How did you do?

[theaether]

Hey, where did you find this info? I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this.

moststronglysupported.com blueprint blog

[Eichörnchen]

Thanks!

[Strange]

Jim, is it the bread truck one? Seems like standard sequencing for me. Took 52 a few weeks ago and didn't get any wrong on that game.

[Strange]

Yay! Another good RC score, -2 on PT15. I know it's an early one but I wasn't doing this well before. I missed a main point question that I was definitely just lazy on. Overall though, I felt great about the pacing. That ATLAS guide really helped me focus

[mickeyD]

Just read through a bunch of the TLS rankings and profiles for the T-14. Then went to lawschoolpredictor to see how each point above 170 changed my potential admissions to each one.

If anyone's looking for motivation for the next 25 days..

[Eichörnchen]

Just read through a bunch of the TLS rankings and profiles for the T-14. Then went to lawschoolpredictor to see how each point above 170 changed my potential admissions to each one.

If anyone's looking for motivation for the next 25 days..

This and also checking people's schollys on LSN.

[jim-green]

Jim, is it the bread truck one? Seems like standard sequencing for me. Took 52 a few weeks ago and didn't get any wrong on that game.

Strange, yes it is the bread truck one. Didn't you need 4 diagrams for it? I could not do it with 1 diagram. Or did you make hypos for every question? I did not make hypos.
I just tried it again with hypos, and it is very easy!

[davesmystery]

I might as well join this thread super late in the game. I'm signed up for the June but we'll see how things go in the coming week or so.

I got a question for Eich., I'm thinking of doing the same thing you're doing right now (i.e. sitting in June for experience and then also taking in October). After analyzing the pros/cons for a while now, as an anxious person it seems like sitting in June is a really good plan to help get rid of some inevitable jitters that might throw me off as well as using it as an opportunity to take a (really expensive) brand new PT. My question is if you walk out of the June test feeling (or hopefully knowing) you did well, would you keep your score or cancel regardless?

I'm going to try and trick myself into thinking that because I probably should also take it in October that I shouldn't worry about it and thus try to eliminate my anxiety during the test. I've heard stories of people going into the test knowing they are probably going to have to retake, therefore not putting enormous amounts of pressure on themselves and subsequently jumping several points over their average on the real thing. I know it isn't normal for that to actually happen, but at the same time, I might as well try it out.

As of late when I take a PT I'm trying to focus more on how confident I feel about my answer when I'm circling it and on making sure to eliminate as many wrong answers as possible to give myself a decent psychological metric by which to judge a test before I score it. I'm doing this mostly by marking questions I'm unsure of, and then at the end of the section before time is up asking myself whether or not the answer I chose is definitely supported by the text and what differentiates my answer from the next closest one. Most of this resulted because every time I felt confident about a test I bombed it, and every time I feel like I'm going to go -10 or more (total LR) I wind up actually going like -5 or less.

[Strange]

Yeah Jim, one of the things I learned with the games is that making hypos for a lot of questions is the key (especially if the initial setup enables you to narrow everything down to a couple hypos). It can seem time consuming but it's really the best way a lot of times, rather than staring at the question and looking for the right answer. I think it's the main reason I'm dominating LG now

[Eichörnchen]

I might as well join this thread super late in the game. I'm signed up for the June but we'll see how things go in the coming week or so.

I got a question for Eich., I'm thinking of doing the same thing you're doing right now (i.e. sitting in June for experience and then also taking in October). After analyzing the pros/cons for a while now, as an anxious person it seems like sitting in June is a really good plan to help get rid of some inevitable jitters that might throw me off as well as using it as an opportunity to take a (really expensive) brand new PT. My question is if you walk out of the June test feeling (or hopefully knowing) you did well, would you keep your score or cancel regardless?

I'm going to try and trick myself into thinking that because I probably should also take it in October that I shouldn't worry about it and thus try to eliminate my anxiety during the test. I've heard stories of people going into the test knowing they are probably going to have to retake, therefore not putting enormous amounts of pressure on themselves and subsequently jumping several points over their average on the real thing. I know it isn't normal for that to actually happen, but at the same time, I might as well try it out.

As of late when I take a PT I'm trying to focus more on how confident I feel about my answer when I'm circling it and on making sure to eliminate as many wrong answers as possible to give myself a decent psychological metric by which to judge a test before I score it. I'm doing this mostly by marking questions I'm unsure of, and then at the end of the section before time is up asking myself whether or not the answer I chose is definitely supported by the text and what differentiates my answer from the next closest one. Most of this resulted because every time I felt confident about a test I bombed it, and every time I feel like I'm going to go -10 or more (total LR) I wind up actually going like -5 or less.

I totally understand your dilemma. For me, it came down to a few key considerations that I would suggest thinking about. Firstly, I decided that I would most likely take in Oct because even if I did get a few extra points in during these last weeks, it would put me in a position to have a semi-decent shot of getting into a few of the T10, but with my gpa if I were able to get in the 173+ range I would open the door to chances of some really lucrative scholarships. So, I knew Oct was worth trying for. After determining that, I had to decide whether to take in June and keep my score if I felt good about how the test went, or if I should gamble on having Oct being my only score (whether through a June cancel or not taking in June). My "dream schools" are HS, and my gpa is around their 50th percentile. So, knowing that they average LSAT scores, and also knowing that I would probably take the Oct test, I figured I should make Oct my only score because that would prevent the crappy situation of keeping a sub-par June score, then getting a score that gives me a chance for HS in Oct, but then having it be averaged. I know that with my bad softs and having no interesting topic for my PS, it's probably a long shot but if I'm taking the LSAT in Oct anyways, I may as well give it a shot
I think the only way that I would take and keep in June is if in the time before the test I begin to PT in a range that I would be comfortable having. This is because when I am PTing, I tend to focus on whatever question I'm currently on, and I pretty effectively forget how I was feeling on past questions. Good for focusing during a test, bad for being able to get an overall picture of performance. I do circle questions I felt uncertain about and mark them on my answer sheet, so that gives me some indication. It just feels a bit risky to be PTing about 5 points below where I hope to end up shortly before the test and then hope I made a miraculous leap for that day. If I start to pt at 175 regularly in the weeks before the test then I'll consider keeping the score, but somehow I don't count on that happening