September 2014 Retakers Forum

[Blythe17]

Hello, checking in after lurking throughout the June study/waiter's threads. Want to thank everyone from there for helping me get through the madness thus far! Planning to retake a 173 from June (thanks to LG). I know some may think that a 173 doesn't warrant a retake but it's not so much about the how it ranks on the percentile scale so much as how you did relative to how your potential, no? Anyway, I think you're all great and am looking forward to exchanging support here on TLS. Good luck everyone!

[dasani13]

Hello, checking in after lurking throughout the June study/waiter's threads. Want to thank everyone from there for helping me get through the madness thus far! Planning to retake a 173 from June (thanks to LG). I know some may think that a 173 doesn't warrant a retake but it's not so much about the how it ranks on the percentile scale so much as how you did relative to how your potential, no? Anyway, I think you're all great and am looking forward to exchanging support here on TLS. Good luck everyone!

Welcome! What's your strategy this time? Extra focus on the weird games?

[dowu]

Just calculated my score for PT 41 and got a 167. I took the sections independently but this is good news folks.

Good job breh, keep at.

Thank you. Its was straight through but its improvement. Are you retaking again?

[Blythe17]

Hello, checking in after lurking throughout the June study/waiter's threads. Want to thank everyone from there for helping me get through the madness thus far! Planning to retake a 173 from June (thanks to LG). I know some may think that a 173 doesn't warrant a retake but it's not so much about the how it ranks on the percentile scale so much as how you did relative to how your potential, no? Anyway, I think you're all great and am looking forward to exchanging support here on TLS. Good luck everyone!

Welcome! What's your strategy this time? Extra focus on the weird games?

I haven't finalized a retake strategy yet but there are 3 things I'm definitely going to work on:
(1) Drilling the forgotten few games a lot (pattern, mapping, and circular games), since my panicking over game 4 is my main reason for retaking.
(2) Increasing my reading speed for RC (which, I think, is the only way I can improve on it at this point, even slightly). I'm using a couple of iphone apps for this, and my preferred one which I recommend to all is "acceleread." I think it's $5 or something.
(3) Spacing out my PTs leading up to the real test so as to avoid burning out. I hit a low slump during the week leading up to my June test and I think the burn out impacted my performance at least a little bit.

I've gone through the powerscore and manhattan books so I'm not sure if I'll be using anything new other than buying more PTs to work on, but have been considering getting the trainer. But before that I gotta look into how much overlap there might be with stuff I've already studied.

What about yourself? Any notable differences in the way you're preparing for the retake?

[dasani13]

Hello, checking in after lurking throughout the June study/waiter's threads. Want to thank everyone from there for helping me get through the madness thus far! Planning to retake a 173 from June (thanks to LG). I know some may think that a 173 doesn't warrant a retake but it's not so much about the how it ranks on the percentile scale so much as how you did relative to how your potential, no? Anyway, I think you're all great and am looking forward to exchanging support here on TLS. Good luck everyone!

Welcome! What's your strategy this time? Extra focus on the weird games?

I haven't finalized a retake strategy yet but there are 3 things I'm definitely going to work on:
(1) Drilling the forgotten few games a lot (pattern, mapping, and circular games), since my panicking over game 4 is my main reason for retaking.
(2) Increasing my reading speed for RC (which, I think, is the only way I can improve on it at this point, even slightly). I'm using a couple of iphone apps for this, and my preferred one which I recommend to all is "acceleread." I think it's $5 or something.
(3) Spacing out my PTs leading up to the real test so as to avoid burning out. I hit a low slump during the week leading up to my June test and I think the burn out impacted my performance at least a little bit.

I've gone through the powerscore and manhattan books so I'm not sure if I'll be using anything new other than buying more PTs to work on, but have been considering getting the trainer. But before that I gotta look into how much overlap there might be with stuff I've already studied.

What about yourself? Any notable differences in the way you're preparing for the retake?

I'm definitely slowing down this time and taking less PTs/week and reviewing them more thoroughly. I'd take like 3-4 PTs/week in June and never reviewed them well enough. I'm also going to drill the misc. games and I have a list of about 25 games from PTs 40-71 that I'm going to drill (games that I didn't go -0 on when I too them as full PTs). For LR, I'm gonna drill question types according to what I miss on PTs.

[M.M.]

I'm going to be getting in on this thread soon... I might be signing up for an MLSAT class today. Does anyone know if they're still considered the best overall prep company around here? When I was here 2 years ago more often that seemed to be the consensus. Also: does anyone know where I can find any discount keys?

[Yeezus]

I've always wondered, what's the benefit to doing untimed RC drilling? Do you just naturally speed up as you drill more and more? And do you try doing passages again timed after you're done with the untimed drilling?

[Learn_Live_Hope]

I've always wondered, what's the benefit to doing untimed RC drilling? Do you just naturally speed up as you drill more and more? And do you try doing passages again timed after you're done with the untimed drilling?

I believe so.

[bound]

First PT yesterday. Took PT 70 which I had never taken before.

BOMBED RC. It has always been my worse section....but I've never gone -12 lol. Thankfully, LR and LG were pretty flawless so I was still able to keep a very good first score.


Does anyone have any recommendations for RC study materials? I've heard Manhattan is very helpful. This is so bad, but my strategy the last time I took the LSAT was to perfect LG and LR and then ignore RC completely. I definitely can't do that again haha.

[charlesriver]

Just a quick question, where do you guys print out the Cambridge LSAT drilling packets? It seems a lot to print out at home.

[hillz]

Just a quick question, where do you guys print out the Cambridge LSAT drilling packets? It seems a lot to print out at home.

[bohemiandaisy]

Hey everyone! I was a lurker for June 2014 and choked due to nerves. I have major test anxiety. I took every PT ever before June and still choked. i'm back for my last take.

I just got a 177 on PT 67 in a proctored environment. I don't know how accurate this score is since I've taken the test before (out of takes!) and know the infamous zones game very very well (drilled it at least 10 times). But hey, I guess my logic is still dead on and I'll blind review later.

RC -1
LR -3 (-1 for not bubbling due to time)
LG 0

So my question is: how happy should I be? It's a retake, so realistically, this is an inflated. I took it in early May the first time and scored a 166.

[Yeezus]

Hey everyone! I was a lurker for June 2014 and choked due to nerves. I have major test anxiety. I took every PT ever before June and still choked. i'm back for my last take.

I just got a 177 on PT 67 in a proctored environment. I don't know how accurate this score is since I've taken the test before (out of takes!) and know the infamous zones game very very well (drilled it at least 10 times). But hey, I guess my logic is still dead on and I'll blind review later.

RC -1
LR -3 (-1 for not bubbling due to time)
LG 0

So my question is: how happy should I be? It's a retake, so realistically, this is an inflated. I took it in early May the first time and scored a 166.

Still counts for the most part. Regardless of that, when you take PTs again, you're not really doing it for the score, but to see if your skills are on point.

[bohemiandaisy]

Hey everyone! I was a lurker for June 2014 and choked due to nerves. I have major test anxiety. I took every PT ever before June and still choked. i'm back for my last take.

I just got a 177 on PT 67 in a proctored environment. I don't know how accurate this score is since I've taken the test before (out of takes!) and know the infamous zones game very very well (drilled it at least 10 times). But hey, I guess my logic is still dead on and I'll blind review later.

RC -1
LR -3 (-1 for not bubbling due to time)
LG 0

So my question is: how happy should I be? It's a retake, so realistically, this is an inflated. I took it in early May the first time and scored a 166.

Still counts for the most part. Regardless of that, when you take PTs again, you're not really doing it for the score, but to see if your skills are on point.

Thanks for the reply. So how do I measure my progress and know what to realistically expect on test day? My biggest problem is nerves and timing (timing being a result of self-doubt and being panic-stricken on certain questions in proctored environments).

[Blythe17]

So my question is: how happy should I be? It's a retake, so realistically, this is an inflated. I took it in early May the first time and scored a 166.

Congrats on the improvement! As for how happy you should be, that depends on your target score. But assuming that a 177 is at or above your target, that's a great sign! I don't like to give myself much credit for non-fresh PT scores, but after more than 2 months I doubt you remember enough to give yourself an advantage (maybe except for that zones game). Nonetheless, I wouldn't get too excited before establishing consistency (in your case, maybe doing 5 more PTs and averaging 177).

[Yeezus]

Hey everyone! I was a lurker for June 2014 and choked due to nerves. I have major test anxiety. I took every PT ever before June and still choked. i'm back for my last take.

I just got a 177 on PT 67 in a proctored environment. I don't know how accurate this score is since I've taken the test before (out of takes!) and know the infamous zones game very very well (drilled it at least 10 times). But hey, I guess my logic is still dead on and I'll blind review later.

RC -1
LR -3 (-1 for not bubbling due to time)
LG 0

So my question is: how happy should I be? It's a retake, so realistically, this is an inflated. I took it in early May the first time and scored a 166.

Still counts for the most part. Regardless of that, when you take PTs again, you're not really doing it for the score, but to see if your skills are on point.

Thanks for the reply. So how do I measure my progress and know what to realistically expect on test day? My biggest problem is nerves and timing (timing being a result of self-doubt and being panic-stricken on certain questions in proctored environments).

I think the best way you can measure your progress by seeing if you can replicate what you did on PT 67 with other PTs that you take. As for what to expect on test day, you've taken the test at least once before, so my guess is you'll be thrown off a little less this time around. Hopefully with good prepping you won't be as nervous on test day, and be more confident. Just keep up the good work with the PTs and take as many timed proctored PTs as you can without burning out so you get used to the nerves and timing.

[jmjm]

Those with high Rc scores, what makes lsat reading comprehension click for you? I hope i am wrong but to me it seems that most who perform close to perfect on reading comp on 60s RC are naturally good at this section.

In trying to improve RC, I find RC passages are much more complex than writing in economist or ny times. So I have been trying to find a book that compiles scholarly complex articles and essays on diverse topics in humanities, soc sciences (art/literature movements, historical events etc). I don't have access to jstor. Any suggestions?

[Blythe17]

Those with high Rc scores, what makes lsat reading comprehension click for you? I hope i am wrong but to me it seems that most who perform close to perfect on reading comp on 60s RC are naturally good at this section.

In trying to improve RC, I find RC passages are much more complex than writing in economist or ny times. So I have been trying to find a book that compiles scholarly complex articles and essays on diverse topics in humanities, soc sciences (art/literature movements, historical events etc). I don't have access to jstor. Any suggestions?

I'm sure it differs from person to person, but here are things that helped me improve on RC (from averaging ~ -6 to -2):

1. Treat it like LR in a way, and approach the questions knowing that TCR can always be found by referring to the right spots in the passage. I focus less on understanding all of the content and instead more on making reference points, e.g. "end of paragraph 2 talks about x," "beginning of paragraph 3 has a list y," etc. I grasp the general meaning of the passage even while reading this way (which should cover global Qs like main point and attitude Qs), and for the specific Qs I can immediately refer to the right spot in the passage, prephrase, and then confirm an answer with confidence. When I miss a question it's almost always because I can't immediately find the reference point and end up half-guessing because of time pressure. This strategy has made the "complexity" of passages somewhat irrelevant, since I'm not really trying to digest it like I would when reading NYT or Economist, but instead making a reference map.

2. Increase your reading speed and spend less time on the passage and more time on hard questions (e.g. those with 2 really attractive answers that take a little but more time, analogy Qs, etc.). There are lots of ways to do this. I use an app called acceleread.

3. Pause after reading the passage to do a quick summary of things like main point, structure, attitude, etc. before jumping into the questions. This has really helped me avoid panicking/rushing and therefore managing my time better in general. Manhattan and 7sage both recommend this, and I suggest referring to their strategies in full.

I know I'm not a pro yet since I'm still getting around -2 on RC, but I hope this might help you!

[jmjm]

1. Treat it like LR in a way, and approach the questions knowing that TCR can always be found by referring to the right spots in the passage. I focus less on understanding all of the content and instead more on making reference points, e.g. "end of paragraph 2 talks about x," "beginning of paragraph 3 has a list y," etc. I grasp the general meaning of the passage even while reading this way (which should cover global Qs like main point and attitude Qs), and for the specific Qs I can immediately refer to the right spot in the passage, prephrase, and then confirm an answer with confidence. When I miss a question it's almost always because I can't immediately find the reference point and end up half-guessing because of time pressure. This strategy has made the "complexity" of passages somewhat irrelevant, since I'm not really trying to digest it like I would when reading NYT or Economist, but instead making a reference map.

2. Increase your reading speed and spend less time on the passage and more time on hard questions (e.g. those with 2 really attractive answers that take a little but more time, analogy Qs, etc.). There are lots of ways to do this. I use an app called acceleread.

3. Pause after reading the passage to do a quick summary of things like main point, structure, attitude, etc. before jumping into the questions. This has really helped me avoid panicking/rushing and therefore managing my time better in general. Manhattan and 7sage both recommend this, and I suggest referring to their strategies in full.

thanks blythe.
-2 in Rc is a great score. I also try to make a reference map mentally but sometimes the map is not thorough enough for me, so I can't find the reference in the passage quick enough. I assume that you read the full passage only once and then read the reference points again when a question asks for it. Do you make reference points mentally or by annotating? How much time do you spend on the passage read/map and on questions? Do you subvocalize?

I have been experimenting with spreeder on the pc. Acceleread seems similar but it's available only for apple products. I have a blackberry.

[Blythe17]

-2 in Rc is a great score. I also try to make a reference map mentally but sometimes the map is not thorough enough for me, so I can't find the reference in the passage quick enough. I assume that you read the full passage only once and then read the reference points again when a question asks for it. Do you make reference points mentally or by annotating? How much time do you spend on the passage read/map and on questions? Do you subvocalize?

I have been experimenting with spreeder on the pc. Acceleread seems similar but it's available only for apple products. I have a blackberry.

I read the passage in full in about 2 minutes and spend around ~45 seconds per question. This adds up a little under 30 minutes, but there is usually a handful of Qs I find particularly hard and require double-checking that push it up to 34 minutes or so.

Yes, I read the full passage once and later its referenced points. I read much more carefully while doing the latter, because at that point I'm analyzing content as required by the question and want to make sure I'm reading something that confirms TCR. So here I allow myself a bit of subvocalization. But on the first full-passage read I try to suppress all subvocalization so I can go through it as fast as possible.

As for annotating, I no longer do it in order to save time. I just tried not doing it one day and noticed that it didn't make a difference in my ability to find reference points. At the very best it saved me maybe 3 seconds but consumed more time. It could just be that I'm a slow annotator--I'm sure some ppl can basically annotate as fast as they read, in which case they should by all means if it helps.

[dontdoitkid]

Just checking in here - Taking the LSAT for a third time this September. Previous two tests were taken while in undergrad (153) and while working full time (163) so I'm hoping that being to actually dedicate 30-40 hours a week to study will be beneficial.

[Blythe17]

Just checking in here - Taking the LSAT for a third time this September. Previous two tests were taken while in undergrad (153) and while working full time (163) so I'm hoping that being to actually dedicate 30-40 hours a week to study will be beneficial.

Glad you're joining! Any differences in your approach this time? Also, for what it's worth, I think being able to prep full-time without school or work will likely make a huge difference.

[jmjm]

I read the passage in full in about 2 minutes and spend around ~45 seconds per question. This adds up a little under 30 minutes, but there is usually a handful of Qs I find particularly hard and require double-checking that push it up to 34 minutes or so.

Yes, I read the full passage once and later its referenced points. I read much more carefully while doing the latter, because at that point I'm analyzing content as required by the question and want to make sure I'm reading something that confirms TCR. So here I allow myself a bit of subvocalization. But on the first full-passage read I try to suppress all subvocalization so I can go through it as fast as possible.

Does subvocalizing help you remember content better; Is that why you allow it when doing questions? I find that that i recall and comprehend the passage much better when I subvocalize. It does slow me down greatly however.

Did you train yourself to suppress subvocalization for initial read? The 2 min first read sounds great. I have tried to do the first read close to just as fast but I often find that i grasp only a sense of main point and structure after such a fast read and still have to refer back to passage for even main point/structure questions to reference, recall, and confirm the choices.

[dowu]

I wouldnt recommend reading the passage in 2 minutes. I think 3 minutes per passage and basically 5 give or take for questions is better. If you know the answer to the questions immediately (because you understood the passage), you will need way less time for questions.

[dasani13]

I wouldnt recommend reading the passage in 2 minutes. I think 3 minutes per passage and basically 5 give or take for questions is better. If you know the answer to the questions immediately (because you understood the passage), you will need way less time for questions.

There's a chart in the Manhattan guide (and I think in the Trainer as well but I'm not sure) that helps you figure out if you're reading too fast or not.