Ethical dilemma? Forum

[lymenheimer]

You guys realize that it's to keep people from rigging the room to the test taker's advantage; ie scratching answers on the desk. LOL at LSAC being able to enforce a bar from certain testing centers.

[somethingElse]

You guys realize that it's to keep people from rigging the room to the test taker's advantage; ie scratching answers on the desk. LOL at LSAC being able to enforce a bar from certain testing centers.

Yeah but apparently you can't be on the premises at all, not just the actual room.

[WeightliftingThinker]

You guys realize that it's to keep people from rigging the room to the test taker's advantage; ie scratching answers on the desk. LOL at LSAC being able to enforce a bar from certain testing centers.

Yeah but apparently you can't be on the premises at all, not just the actual room.

You DEFINITELY cannot go by yourself into the room to practice. As for the premises, I would contact them. After all, as I mentioned before, our situations are different.

[somethingElse]

You guys realize that it's to keep people from rigging the room to the test taker's advantage; ie scratching answers on the desk. LOL at LSAC being able to enforce a bar from certain testing centers.

Yeah but apparently you can't be on the premises at all, not just the actual room.

You DEFINITELY cannot go by yourself into the room to practice. As for the premises, I would contact them. After all, as I mentioned before, our situations are different.

Well in your email you said "testing center". I suppose it depends on how the LSAC representative interpreted that term. To me it means the entire premises, but I guess it could also mean just the actual room. But IIRC the registration thing makes you pick a "testing center" without having known the room yet. So to me that implies that the center is more than just the room.

[lymenheimer]

You guys realize that it's to keep people from rigging the room to the test taker's advantage; ie scratching answers on the desk. LOL at LSAC being able to enforce a bar from certain testing centers.

Yeah but apparently you can't be on the premises at all, not just the actual room.

You DEFINITELY cannot go by yourself into the room to practice. As for the premises, I would contact them. After all, as I mentioned before, our situations are different.

Bahahaha. Well then I should be barred from attending law school and LSAC should investigate every test taker, because my test was in an event center that I went to regularly to pick up race packets, attend speaking events, etc. Can't practice in the room by yourself? Sucks for those kids who are practicing in their uni classrooms where the test is going to be administered. JFlol

[WeightliftingThinker]

You guys realize that it's to keep people from rigging the room to the test taker's advantage; ie scratching answers on the desk. LOL at LSAC being able to enforce a bar from certain testing centers.

Yeah but apparently you can't be on the premises at all, not just the actual room.

You DEFINITELY cannot go by yourself into the room to practice. As for the premises, I would contact them. After all, as I mentioned before, our situations are different.

Well in your email you said "testing center". I suppose it depends on how the LSAC representative interpreted that term. To me it means the entire premises, but I guess it could also mean just the actual room. But IIRC the registration thing makes you pick a "testing center" without having known the room yet. So to me that implies that the center is more than just the room.

I know my test location and potentially the room. I will be avoiding all of it.

[emkay625]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

[appind]

this rule illustrates how out of touch from reality lsac probably is

[Mikey]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

Yep.. At my school I have a class every semester in one of the lecture halls where they administer the LSAT, haha.

[Dcc617]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

Yep.. At my school I have a class every semester in one of the lecture halls where they administer the LSAT, haha.

What made you ask about this though? Like, how would anyone have ever known or cared if you took a practice test in that room/building?

[somethingElse]

THE LSAC CARES! And they sent him/her an email that contained information about it, apparently.

[Mikey]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

Yep.. At my school I have a class every semester in one of the lecture halls where they administer the LSAT, haha.

What made you ask about this though? Like, how would anyone have ever known or cared if you took a practice test in that room/building?

I didn't ask about it..?

[Dcc617]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

Yep.. At my school I have a class every semester in one of the lecture halls where they administer the LSAT, haha.

What made you ask about this though? Like, how would anyone have ever known or cared if you took a practice test in that room/building?

I didn't ask about it..?

OP dawg. I was just butting into the conversation. My bad for not making it more clear who I was talking to.

[Mikey]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

Yep.. At my school I have a class every semester in one of the lecture halls where they administer the LSAT, haha.

What made you ask about this though? Like, how would anyone have ever known or cared if you took a practice test in that room/building?

I didn't ask about it..?

OP dawg. I was just butting into the conversation. My bad for not making it more clear who I was talking to.

Oh haha,I was so confused.

[WeightliftingThinker]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

Yep.. At my school I have a class every semester in one of the lecture halls where they administer the LSAT, haha.

What made you ask about this though? Like, how would anyone have ever known or cared if you took a practice test in that room/building?

Integrity matters.

[BasilHallward]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

^^^^TCR. It's enforceable. I did this dozens of times without knowing the test room. Even if one knows the room, who cares and what can be done about it? The staff that is hired on test day has been questionable at best. How can UNIVERSITY/event center (non-LSAC property) rooms be insulated from practice test takers months before the fact. They check these rooms before the test anyways. Years ago, I literally remember going to a test center a month out. I timed the commute and then asked a secretary at the front if I could walk around and read a book in one the rooms (there were hundreds of rooms). No raised eyebrows. Full license to case the place.

[jflaw]

I really think that this rule is intended to protect LSAC's relationship with the test centers. I.e. they don't want hundreds of students showing up to the testing site weeks in advance to take practice tests. If this was the case no one would volunteer to host the event. If you're a single student who happens to be enrolled in undergrad at the testing site they could probably care less.

[somethingElse]

Can we sue the LSAC for this?? GUYS I'M OUTRAGED.

[EnderWiggin]

in for lulz / this is my new favorite thred

[forum_user]

I really think that this rule is intended to protect LSAC's relationship with the test centers. I.e. they don't want hundreds of students showing up to the testing site weeks in advance to take practice tests. If this was the case no one would volunteer to host the event. If you're a single student who happens to be enrolled in undergrad at the testing site they could probably care less.

But if these hundreds of students were instead part of a prep class, and said prep class met, say, thrice daily for practice tests in the exact same room, this apparently would not be a problem for LSAC.

Further, if this were the case, why wouldn't LSAC make it more explicit? Like clearly none of us in this thread have ever heard of this 'rule' before, so why does it take one gunner actually contacting LSAC out of an abundance of caution for us to find out about this? (Not indicting you specifically, jflaw, just raising questions)

[Hennessy]

LSAC 180

[poptart123]

Just checked my ticket and it says testing room will be posted on test day. That's annoying because it's on a college campus and I like to have parking planned out. Not a big deal, just a small, extra annoyance.

[LittleGiants16]

Students who take the test on their undergrad campus have presumably been to the test center literally hundreds of times. This is a ridiculous and unenforceable rule.

Yep.. At my school I have a class every semester in one of the lecture halls where they administer the LSAT, haha.

What made you ask about this though? Like, how would anyone have ever known or cared if you took a practice test in that room/building?

Integrity matters.

But, to simplify the previous poster's comment, who f*cking cares? No one would/could have known that you were in there a year ago unless you told them.

Do you really think the LSAC is going to run around going on watching surveillance footage of testing rooms to see if people entered and exited them more than a twelve months ago? The answer to that question is no. I have friends who took classes in a bulding where a test is held each spring. Should the LSAC bar them for taking the test in a location that is by far most convenient for them? Again, f*ck no.

I have seen a lot of threads in my time on here, and this one reeks of unnecessary worry more than any other.

[Jeffort]

I think a few misunderstandings/miscommunications turned into a runaway train here.

LSAC doesn't have any test center visitation prior to test day prohibition rules that are as extreme or far reaching as OP misunderstood/construed them to be:

PM me for information. I am not posting email information here.

Update: To make things less confusing, here is my final communication:

Me: "I received an email earlier today that read, ‘LSAT registrants are not to contact the test centers, or go to the test centers prior to the date of the exam, for any reason.’ Because of this information and my commitment to integrity, I decided to change my test center since I was part of a LSAT prep program last summer which was held at the test center where I will be at in September 2016. I believe the test prep, which included timed, simulated conditions for testing, was sometimes held in the actual room where the test will be administered. I have not visited the test center since then (September 2015). In order to change my test center, I had to pay a $90 fee. I called 215 - 968 - 1001 today around 2:10 PM ET to see if I could get a fee waiver. I spoke to a customer representative who spoke with their supervisor. He told me that my previous contact with the test center was acceptable since I was part of a LSAT prep program. He noted that it would be unacceptable for me to go to the test center on an individual basis to practice there. This information relieved me of my concerns. Thus, I will practice at a library and I will take the real exam at the test center I was at for the LSAT prep program. I am contacting for an email confirmation of this information. Thank you."

Them: "Thank you for your inquiry to LSAC: What you were told by the phone representative and supervisor is correct."

The two rules that seem to have been the source of misunderstandings in phone and/or email communications between OP and LSAC are:

From: http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/day-of-test

Please Note

1. Test takers should not contact LSAT test center supervisors for any reason.
2. Test takers are not permitted access to test rooms prior to the exam.

Rule #2 certainly could be phrased more clearly. It's meant to mean before you are checked in, assigned a room and directed to enter and be seated by a proctor on test day. It also can be interpreted to mean than being registered for the test and assigned to a particular room does not constitute permission from LSAC for you to be allowed to use the room/be on the premises before test day since they only rented the room(s) for test day, which could be phrased more clearly as "Test takers are not permitted access by LSAC to test rooms prior to the exam.", leaving open the possibility that you could still be permitted access to the room before test day by the school's administrators/teachers/somebody else with authority to let you use the room.

LSAC rents rooms/buildings for the day of the test from schools, hotels and other facilities to administer the LSAT to test takers, but that doesn't give them any authority to grant test takers access to those facilities at any other times. Since LSAC doesn't own the facilities used as test centers, they don't have any legal authority to make access permission or prohibition rules about the rooms/buildings for test takers for times other than the days they've rented the facilities for (test administration days).

It sounds to me like the LSAC phone rep's OP spoke with misinterpreted the question as something like "Does being registered to take the LSAT at XYZ test center in room ABC give me permission to take practice tests in test center XYZ/room ABC prior to test day?", and then said "no, unless you're taking a prep class there" because then the room would be rented for the prep class and the students in the class would be allowed in the room per the rental agreement with whoever rented the room to conduct the prep class.

Some of the various ridiculous situations that could arise for some people if you were in fact not allowed to go into the test center/test room at any time FOR ANY REASON before test day along with some common sense should be enough for people to realize that LSAC doesn't have a rule that bans you from ever being allowed into a room/building before test day that will be your test day room/building sometime in the future. Like others mentioned, if your test center is on your UG campus in a room/building that one of your UG classes is also held in, it certainly wouldn't be enforceable. Similar type of thing with test centers that are held in conference rooms in hotels. If you get assigned to a test center at a hotel, could LSAC legally ban you from being allowed to go to that hotel for some other purpose that legally allows you to be there, like say if the company you work for rents out the same room for a biz conference or something? Of course not, that would be silly. Another really basic fact that should make it obvious that LSAC doesn't have such a draconian ridiculous rule is that many test takers aren't told by LSAC via their admission ticket which building/room they're assigned to until sometimes as late as the last week or even last day before the test! Many test takers are not informed by LSAC of what test center and/or building or room they're assigned to until shortly before test day, making it impossible for those people to know which building/room they're not allowed to visit before test day until right before test day!

Whether or not you're allowed to go to/visit/be in a facility/room/building before test day that will later be your test center/test room depends on whether or not you otherwise (separate from any LSAC rules) have the right or permission from whatever entity owns/controls the facility/campus/building/room to be on those premises, like if you're a student at the University and allowed to study in classrooms that are not otherwise in use at the time, or conversely if you being there would be considered trespassing according to the rules of the school/landlord/entity/institution that owns/controls/makes the access rules for the premises.

I'm a bit surprised that some people seemed to believe from this thread that such an absurd rule exists, but then again stress and anxiety always runs pretty high in the last few weeks before test day and people can get freaked out really easily by things they hear or read on discussion forums. When in doubt or uncertain about LSAC's rules just visit the LSAC web page and/or email them with your question phrased clearly, all the rules are published on their webpage (although some of them could be phrased a bit more clearly).

[SkinnyFat]

I practiced in the same room that my LSAT was going to be administered in. Upon realizing that the room sucked, and the desks that we were going to be taking the test on were about the width of a cutting board, I switched locations. (Took the test in Southern California, where there are about a hundred testing centers... we're spoiled like that.) Very happy that I did that. I have a hard time seeing the unethical aspect of that.