Post removed. Forum

lollsat · Post by **lollsat** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:17 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
Poopface wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
TheodoreKGB wrote:Top scorers were way down last cycle, so it's still most likely that we see median drops at the top this year.

May be the beginning of the end though
smart people have been leaving law for years now and will continue to leave law. the career lifestyle, debt, and salary do not justify a smart person with many skills going to law school. all about working at corps on the rise and getting stock options these days.
which is why i think big law firms need to raise their goddam starting salaries so the legal industry doesn't continue to lose talented people to other career paths. 160k for the last like 8 years? absurd considering inflation and how much more expensive tuition is these days. smart people considering law school r gona be like oh 160k is the absolute best case scenario if i go to law school? and that itself isn't even really worth it considering the cost of tuition, guess i'll go into to tech or private equity or something
Not a lot of prelaw people have the skills for tech or the pedigree for PE. Law remains attractive for liberal arts kids at non-target schools.

The question usually isn't, "Should I go to law school or take a job at Facebook/Blackstone/Goldman?" Instead, it's, "Should I take a gamble on law school and try to make it big, or go back home and live with my parents while working as a random data-entry monkey / retail store manager / barista?"

Obviously $160k looks pretty attractive in that situation.

Exactly. 100% agree.

ihenry · Post by **ihenry** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:34 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
Poopface wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
TheodoreKGB wrote:Top scorers were way down last cycle, so it's still most likely that we see median drops at the top this year.

May be the beginning of the end though
smart people have been leaving law for years now and will continue to leave law. the career lifestyle, debt, and salary do not justify a smart person with many skills going to law school. all about working at corps on the rise and getting stock options these days.
which is why i think big law firms need to raise their goddam starting salaries so the legal industry doesn't continue to lose talented people to other career paths. 160k for the last like 8 years? absurd considering inflation and how much more expensive tuition is these days. smart people considering law school r gona be like oh 160k is the absolute best case scenario if i go to law school? and that itself isn't even really worth it considering the cost of tuition, guess i'll go into to tech or private equity or something
Not a lot of prelaw people have the skills for tech or the pedigree for PE. Law remains attractive for liberal arts kids at non-target schools.

The question usually isn't, "Should I go to law school or take a job at Facebook/Blackstone/Goldman?" Instead, it's, "Should I take a gamble on law school and try to make it big, or go back home and live with my parents while working as a random data-entry monkey / retail store manager / barista?"

Obviously $160k looks pretty attractive in that situation.

Hmm I have a bachelor's in computer science with decent skills. I just cannot imagine myself coding all day and finance is not my cup of tea. While "law is something I have always wanted to do" may be a pretense for some who cannot otherwise find a job, it does not apply to everybody, especially those who consider themselves somewhat brave and adventurous

Broncos15 · Post by **Broncos15** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:18 am

And I followed the TLS advice of wait to finish UG before retaking LSAT because GPA locks in- can't fix it later.

I'll be questioning for a long time if I should have gone ahead and applied with for Fall 2015 with a 3.5 GPA rather than boost it up to a 3.67 and having a wait and see/patient approach

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:52 am

Broncos15 wrote:

And I followed the TLS advice of wait to finish UG before retaking LSAT because GPA locks in- can't fix it later.

I'll be questioning for a long time if I should have gone ahead and applied with for Fall 2015 with a 3.5 GPA rather than boost it up to a 3.67 and having a wait and see/patient approach

Hold your horses. October and December are the bulk of the applicants and they could both be down.

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:54 am

Broncos15 wrote:

And I followed the TLS advice of wait to finish UG before retaking LSAT because GPA locks in- can't fix it later.

I'll be questioning for a long time if I should have gone ahead and applied with for Fall 2015 with a 3.5 GPA rather than boost it up to a 3.67 and having a wait and see/patient approach

This barely matters at all. You still need to do well on the LSAT no matter how much apps are down or up

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:57 am

Yeah ^

Nomo · Post by **Nomo** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:08 am

RZ5646 wrote:
Poopface wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
TheodoreKGB wrote:Top scorers were way down last cycle, so it's still most likely that we see median drops at the top this year.

May be the beginning of the end though
smart people have been leaving law for years now and will continue to leave law. the career lifestyle, debt, and salary do not justify a smart person with many skills going to law school. all about working at corps on the rise and getting stock options these days.
which is why i think big law firms need to raise their goddam starting salaries so the legal industry doesn't continue to lose talented people to other career paths. 160k for the last like 8 years? absurd considering inflation and how much more expensive tuition is these days. smart people considering law school r gona be like oh 160k is the absolute best case scenario if i go to law school? and that itself isn't even really worth it considering the cost of tuition, guess i'll go into to tech or private equity or something
Not a lot of prelaw people have the skills for tech or the pedigree for PE. Law remains attractive for liberal arts kids at non-target schools.

The question usually isn't, "Should I go to law school or take a job at Facebook/Blackstone/Goldman?" Instead, it's, "Should I take a gamble on law school and try to make it big, or go back home and live with my parents while working as a random data-entry monkey / retail store manager / barista?"

Obviously $160k looks pretty attractive in that situation.

160k does look attractive in that situation. But that's only due to lack of experience. 160k seemed really attractive to me circa 2008-2009 when I was fresh out of a no-name college with no job and a liberal arts degree. But six years later it seems like nearly every other smart and hardworking person from my undergrad class has found their way into a decent job. The path wasn't always pretty, but it worked out. Plenty of smart hard working people go to law school and then find that the market is so saturated that they can't get legal jobs. But even if you get a biglaw job, its barely enough to cover sticker debt. And you're stuck in a field that's loaded to the brim with smart, hardworking, narcissistic people. When you're surrounded by people like that its very hard to stand out in a positive way. Its much better to be a random data-entry monkey or a retail store manager. You'll probably be in a better job in three years. And you won't have borrowed 300k.

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:11 am

Lol at just do PE bro

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:38 am

Post removed.

RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:06 am

basedvulpes wrote:I do not understand the people that come on here and make the argument that if you just stick it out in your current bullshit job for a couple of years then you'll be better off than if you attended law school.

I get that 160k isn't guaranteed, COA is too high, oversaturated market where 90% of graduates have 50/50 shot at a good job, yada yada. But saying that forgoing law school and just making it work is necessarily the better option seems just as extreme as saying if you just get a law degree and pass the bar you'll be fine.

I can understand those people because starting a career without debt gives you the freedom to try different things, and if you fail you can just go to law school later anyway. The only problem with that is that many of us already do have crushing student debt, so a random low-paying office job = abject poverty.

But I have no respect for the "lol just do McKinsey / PE / tech bro" argument. Sure, if you're at a target school and have good quantitative skills, law school probably isn't the best choice for you, at least from a financial perspective. But I'd guess no more than 10% of TLSers have that background. In fact, many of us are here exactly because law doesn't require a prestigious college or great quant skills.

Cochran · Post by **Cochran** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:16 am

Does this actually change anything? Of course, a larger applicant pool will likely make admissions more competitive. But is there any numerical evidence that shows that the applicant class of 2017 (similar # of June takers) had tougher admissions than the class of 2018?

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:31 am

Post removed.

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:32 pm

Post removed.

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:41 pm

Post removed.

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:44 pm

Post removed.

SirArthurDayne · Post by **SirArthurDayne** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:07 pm

Post removed.

TheodoreKGB · Post by **TheodoreKGB** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:12 pm

180kickflip · Post by **180kickflip** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:24 pm

This info hurt. I had to pull out of last cycle due to family issues after getting some great offers. I was hoping that I'd end up with basically the same offers this cycle (with the possibility of improving my offers if applicant numbers dropped again).

Now I'm scared for my cycle...higher applicants+ no LSAT/GPA improvement + The same PS/DS as last year because they're basically the best I can put together= zero confidence

Only thing I know is that I'll be sending my apps in on day 1 =/

Clemenceau · Post by **Clemenceau** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:47 pm

180kickflip wrote:This info hurt. I had to pull out of last cycle due to family issues after getting some great offers. I was hoping that I'd end up with basically the same offers this cycle (with the possibility of improving my offers if applicant numbers dropped again).

Now I'm scared for my cycle...higher applicants+ no LSAT/GPA improvement + The same PS/DS as last year because they're basically the best I can put together= zero confidence

Only thing I know is that I'll be sending my apps in on day 1 =/

I wouldn't sweat it. June alone doesn't tell the whole story. Furthermore, even if this years app pool is larger, that doesn't necessarily mean schools will be targeting higher medians or anything. They might just slightly increase class size after a few years of retracting them.

OR a lot of people retook in june this cycle and this number means next to nothing in terms of the size of this upcoming cycle's applicant pool.

Just throwing some ideas around. The point is, there are too many variables at this point to get down about a little blip in June test takers.

tskela · Post by **tskela** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:21 pm

Kinda makes me not wanna wait to apply after I graduate. I'm leaning towards just applying this cycle now

RZ5646 · Post by **RZ5646** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:25 pm

What might have caused this increase? Is the economy getting worse again? Was the number of applicants overcorrected and now returning to its natural level (which will still be much lower than it was years ago)? Is it just an anomaly with no significance?

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:28 pm

tskela wrote:Kinda makes me not wanna wait to apply after I graduate. I'm leaning towards just applying this cycle now

Huh? You mean to start in fall 2015 or fall 2016?

tskela · Post by **tskela** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:32 pm

Rigo wrote:
tskela wrote:Kinda makes me not wanna wait to apply after I graduate. I'm leaning towards just applying this cycle now
Huh? You mean to start in fall 2015 or fall 2016?

Fall 2016 would be after my graduation. Fall 2015 would be the start of my senior year. Was unsure as to which cycle to apply to because of the potential GPA bump if I waited until Fall 2016. But I'd rather not gamble on a more competitive cycle. Idk. It would be the difference between a 3.6x and a 3.7x

Cochran · Post by **Cochran** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:58 pm

SirArthurDayne wrote:http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/how-th ... -and-next/

While I'm no admissions dean, and truly have no clue as to how these things work, the data simply doesn't support the speculation of any drastic changes regarding this cycle. Last year aside, this June had the smallest number of June test takers since 2001-2002. So while admissions may be more competitive than last years cycle, to entertain the position that this cycle will be harder on applicants than that of the last 5 years is completely unfounded. Furthermore, this data doesn't only represent U.S. numbers, meaning an uptick in foreign lsats could be responsible for the increase. I find this most plausible, as I don't see anything that's changed in our economic climate concerning law school. I could be in denial, but I'm going to hold out on pushing the panic button just yet.

whacka · Post by **whacka** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Post removed.