Absolutely devastated Forum

[Donashimen]

Although it saddens me that there are others such as myself whom were disappointed with their September score, it is comforting to know that I am not alone. I also am really considering a retake in December; however, it being my third try makes me question this retake. I was told that we can only take the LSATs three times and that many schools look down on individuals who have taken the LSATs more than 3 times. Any thoughts and/or advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you

[TommyBishop]

Ok, so i took this test in June of this year, having consistently hammered out 165-168 on all PTs and taking a short class to prep, and got 159. Not the worst score ever, but no Harvard, no T14, even with my compelling backstory/ work history etc. So i studied my ass off and retook the Sept 27th (on my goddamned birthday), and got 158. I was just dumbfounded... totally devastated.

[AP-375]

Hey everyone,
So sorry to hear everyone's troubles. Just some long term perspective - 4-5 years ago, I experienced the EXACT same thing as you guys are describing. Took the LSAT 4 times over a 2.5 year period. Ended up getting into a decent enough school with some money, and more importantly, eventually ended up with a fantastic job that I'm very happy with.
Keep trying, don't get bogged down in disappointment for too long. Stay optimistic and keep at it, guys! Best of luck!

[ManoftheHour]

Although it saddens me that there are others such as myself whom were disappointed with their September score, it is comforting to know that I am not alone. I also am really considering a retake in December; however, it being my third try makes me question this retake. I was told that we can only take the LSATs three times and that many schools look down on individuals who have taken the LSATs more than 3 times. Any thoughts and/or advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you

As mentioned, I took 4 times and applied two cycles. With a higher score for my second cycle, I got accepted EVERYWHERE that I did the year before (except with more $$$) and places that I previously didn't get into. Granted, the range of schools I applied to are around the 12-40 range so YMMV.

[The Avatar]

Yea, what happened? Most people I know seem to have bombed this test when they thought it was actually quite easy by the end of it.

Hopefully, December doesn't throw in any huge surprises. Though I have a feeling we may be in for a mapping game in LG.

[lawjag2015]

My cold untimed diagnostics were 164 and 168 (the next day). I scored a 163 in June, and a 160 in September this year. I was PTing in high 160s, even low 170s before June, and in 170s, including a 176 before September.

But, I know that I never felt comfortable in LG, just somehow managed to do fine in PTs. I also know I can occasionally mess-up RC. LR mistakes are a complete surprise, but still, 2 sections out 4 need improvement, and even LR can be improved. High PTs, if not a not a true reflection of your self-assessed level, can be misleading. I hardly ever looked at my mistakes in LG, let alone doing repeat drills, and I never did blind reviews.

[GreenTee]

I don't understand why this test was such a killer. It felt totally standard. And I was so consistent in my PT scores. 19 out of my 22 PTs landed within a 3 point window. I scored way below that window on this test.

Seeing so many people with similar experiences makes me question the presumption that it was just a matter of test day jitters. To anyone who has reviewed the test, did you find anything unusual that would explain how this happened?

[Donashimen]

I don't understand why this test was such a killer. It felt totally standard. And I was so consistent in my PT scores. 19 out of my 22 PTs landed within a 3 point window. I scored way below that window on this test.

Seeing so many people with similar experiences makes me question the presumption that it was just a matter of test day jitters. To anyone who has reviewed the test, did you find anything unusual that would explain how this happened?

I actually retook the full test again yesterday and got the same score! which is not a good thing at all. So i have no clue what is going on with this test. It wasn't an easy test by any means, but it also was not so difficult as to leave so many people so baffled i guess.I have no idea why everyone, including myself, have had such a hard time with it. I personally ran out of time on the RC section and guessed on one of the passages w/ the 5 questions. The first LR in my opinion was somewhat difficult, compared to the second LR. I did well on the LG, but then again I have been lucky enough to not have any problems with the LG sections overall, but I have had a rather difficult time with the RC sections. I am also really curious to know why we all have had such a hard time with this test.

[BP Robert]

As an LSAT instructor I see cases like this all the time:) Nerves, lack of sleep, botched Games, what have you.

I would, of course, recommend retaking but there's certainly no harm in waiting a year, if you can. That will give you more than enough time to get truly comfortable with the test and kill it next June. If you do, Harvard, Columbia, and other top schools are well within your reach.

You won't be weighed down much by this 157. Schools will understand it to be very much an anomaly if you score up ~170, especially next to that gleaming 4.0.

Very best of luck,

Blueprint LSAT Prep

[The Avatar]

I just redid the LR on this test and especially the second one was really difficult. Since LR is 50% of the test this may have played a role in everyone's lower than average score. Will December be like this as well?

[jjtomp]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. It's honestly encouraged me to get it together for this December and I'm already feeling excited for it. I wish I could take it now tbh. I finally decided to take a look at the test again and I just retook the logic games for this test. I got 2 wrong on the entire section under timed conditions. On the actual test, I got 8 wrong on the section. Does this sound like test day jitters then? This was the section I took after my break. I took half of a 5 hour energy during my break and I was actually convinced this section was the experimental section. I think the 5 hour energy plus the realization during game 3 that this may be real is what did me in. I couldn't focus; I was in such a rush and so anxious that I wasn't able to focus at all. I guess I really need to lessen the caffeine intake and not attempt to predict expiremental sections, cause this section frankly wasn't THAT hard. What's next: I got 12 wrong (yes, 12) on the next LR section. Those were the crux of my wrong incorrect answers. I'm convinced I just had a meltdown/overdose and blew it.

[InTheHouse]

Seems like September 2014 was brutal for a lot of people. Have a 4.09 LSAC GPA from a double major in physics and mathematics. Diagnostic was 166 with a lowest PT of 165, highest PT of 176 and an average of 173. Scored 161. I may still try to see if GULC part-time will admit me since the USPTO will be paying for it anyway. Otherwise, I'll probably try again in June. I'm not a morning person to begin with and I can't do much extra prep in just 6 weeks anyway. Also would like to see if this is the beginning of an attempt to shift the focus or composition of the LSAT.

Don't waste a 4.09 GPA on the USPTO (that money comes with a service commitment) or GULC.

[The Avatar]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. It's honestly encouraged me to get it together for this December and I'm already feeling excited for it. I wish I could take it now tbh. I finally decided to take a look at the test again and I just retook the logic games for this test. I got 2 wrong on the entire section under timed conditions. On the actual test, I got 8 wrong on the section. Does this sound like test day jitters then? This was the section I took after my break. I took half of a 5 hour energy during my break and I was actually convinced this section was the experimental section. I think the 5 hour energy plus the realization during game 3 that this may be real is what did me in. I couldn't focus; I was in such a rush and so anxious that I wasn't able to focus at all. I guess I really need to lessen the caffeine intake and not attempt to predict expiremental sections, cause this section frankly wasn't THAT hard. What's next: I got 12 wrong (yes, 12) on the next LR section. Those were the crux of my wrong incorrect answers. I'm convinced I just had a meltdown/overdose and blew it.

Actually this section was really hard. I normally get -3 on LR and totally blew this one.

[sfoglia]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. It's honestly encouraged me to get it together for this December and I'm already feeling excited for it. I wish I could take it now tbh. I finally decided to take a look at the test again and I just retook the logic games for this test. I got 2 wrong on the entire section under timed conditions. On the actual test, I got 8 wrong on the section. Does this sound like test day jitters then? This was the section I took after my break. I took half of a 5 hour energy during my break and I was actually convinced this section was the experimental section. I think the 5 hour energy plus the realization during game 3 that this may be real is what did me in. I couldn't focus; I was in such a rush and so anxious that I wasn't able to focus at all. I guess I really need to lessen the caffeine intake and not attempt to predict expiremental sections, cause this section frankly wasn't THAT hard. What's next: I got 12 wrong (yes, 12) on the next LR section. Those were the crux of my wrong incorrect answers. I'm convinced I just had a meltdown/overdose and blew it.

Actually this section was really hard. I normally get -3 on LR and totally blew this one.

Usually no more than -2 on LR and went -6 on that section.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

I'm in a very similar situation to a lot of you guys. September was my third take at the LSAT and I got destroyed by it. Luckily my first attempt was some time ago so I've got another chance, but I'm terrified of my score going down.

I felt so confident about the test too. Time was never an issue and I expected to miss no more than about 12 questions. Since the scores have been released, I'm gone through my answer sheet like 10 times looking for an error to explain what happened. When I took the LSAT the second time (last year), I missed a total of like 6 questions until missing more in RC than the rest of the test combined. I thought RC was my only weakness after consistently PTing perfect LG scores and getting -0 on my second take. This time around I missed an even amount of questions everywhere. I never miss LG questions and I missed as many LGs in September as I did RCs. I guess the silver lining is I improved at RC??

Completely out of material, scored significantly below my PT average and I've already sat out several cycles without doing anything meaningful. I've applied to schools already. Just hoping a February re-take gets me some money or off some waitlists.

[The Avatar]

The Lsats being administered this 2014 year is much more difficult than the ones in the last decade or so. Makes me fearful of what is in store for us in December.

[iamgeorgebush]

just retake; you'll be fine. i screwed up the first time around, as have many others, but few schools will hold a bad first score against you if you can pull through the second time around.

[nlee10]

The Lsats being administered this 2014 year is much more difficult than the ones in the last decade or so. Makes me fearful of what is in store for us in December.

Proof?

[musedreverie]

The Lsats being administered this 2014 year is much more difficult than the ones in the last decade or so. Makes me fearful of what is in store for us in December.

I think this really depends from people to people... For me, I found the June exam really hard, Sept rather easy but found PT 55-57 the hardest.

I hope the Dec test treats people fairly.

[EricHosmer]

The Lsats being administered this 2014 year is much more difficult than the ones in the last decade or so. Makes me fearful of what is in store for us in December.

Proof?

Feb LSAT had the circular table lg that was the first circular game in a while. June LSAT had that last virus game that fucked me over, although some people seemed to do well if they could figure out a diagram.

EDIT: I should mention that I'm not saying they were "much more difficult than the ones in the last decade," but that those lg sections were unusual and seemed to be tough for more people than usual.

[Freebot]

Seems like September 2014 was brutal for a lot of people. Have a 4.09 LSAC GPA from a double major in physics and mathematics. Diagnostic was 166 with a lowest PT of 165, highest PT of 176 and an average of 173. Scored 161. I may still try to see if GULC part-time will admit me since the USPTO will be paying for it anyway. Otherwise, I'll probably try again in June. I'm not a morning person to begin with and I can't do much extra prep in just 6 weeks anyway. Also would like to see if this is the beginning of an attempt to shift the focus or composition of the LSAT.

Don't waste a 4.09 GPA on the USPTO (that money comes with a service commitment) or GULC.

I know that private patent attorneys and agents love to hate the USPTO, but it seems everyone is miserable as a BigLaw associate and the best chance at making partner is roughly 12% if you happen to graduate from the University of Chicago during a strong economy. If I understand correctly, the typical outcome is to work in BigLaw for 3-5 years then leave to work in a job that pays around federal salary cap for the rest of your career. My big ambitions are to learn to think like a lawyer so I can argue with attorneys on a more equal footing and to work my way up to Administrative Patent Judge, which I see as the ultimate form of my current job. This forum along with other sources have taught me there is no land of sunshine and roses even if I go to Yale.

[ms9]

This is not just for jjtomp, but for everyone who did poorly and feels/felt really down. In my 15 year career in this, I have seen thousands, no joke, thousands of people initially suffer through the same one day feelings of defeat only to rebound incredibly. The rebound often means taking the test again and doing much better. But for some, it didn't. It came in going to a non-dream school and being so motivated to kick ass that they did -- in grades, in networking, in OCI. Some transferred way up the ladder. Other stayed and graduated with wonderful jobs.

These are almost always my favorite students. One is a testimonial on my website and now own a hugely successful VC/Investment firm after working at Biglaw. He has hired former students of mine. Another just made partner at Skadden.

Nothing can stop you if you really want something. Certainly not a one day test score.

Keep your head up.

Mike

[jw316]

This is not just for jjtomp, but for everyone who did poorly and feels/felt really down. In my 15 year career in this, I have seen thousands, no joke, thousands of people initially suffer through the same one day feelings of defeat only to rebound incredibly. The rebound often means taking the test again and doing much better. But for some, it didn't. It came in going to a non-dream school and being so motivated to kick ass that they did -- in grades, in networking, in OCI. Some transferred way up the ladder. Other stayed and graduated with wonderful jobs.

These are almost always my favorite students. One is a testimonial on my website and now own a hugely successful VC/Investment firm after working at Biglaw. He has hired former students of mine. Another just made partner at Skadden.

Nothing can stop you if you really want something. Certainly not a one day test score.

Keep your head up.

Mike

Thanks for that Mike. TLS <3's you.

[InTheHouse]

Seems like September 2014 was brutal for a lot of people. Have a 4.09 LSAC GPA from a double major in physics and mathematics. Diagnostic was 166 with a lowest PT of 165, highest PT of 176 and an average of 173. Scored 161. I may still try to see if GULC part-time will admit me since the USPTO will be paying for it anyway. Otherwise, I'll probably try again in June. I'm not a morning person to begin with and I can't do much extra prep in just 6 weeks anyway. Also would like to see if this is the beginning of an attempt to shift the focus or composition of the LSAT.

Don't waste a 4.09 GPA on the USPTO (that money comes with a service commitment) or GULC.

I know that private patent attorneys and agents love to hate the USPTO, but it seems everyone is miserable as a BigLaw associate and the best chance at making partner is roughly 12% if you happen to graduate from the University of Chicago during a strong economy. If I understand correctly, the typical outcome is to work in BigLaw for 3-5 years then leave to work in a job that pays around federal salary cap for the rest of your career. My big ambitions are to learn to think like a lawyer so I can argue with attorneys on a more equal footing and to work my way up to Administrative Patent Judge, which I see as the ultimate form of my current job. This forum along with other sources have taught me there is no land of sunshine and roses even if I go to Yale.

You might have been reading a little too much into my post. I'm a former examiner and I liked my time there. So I'm not suggesting Big Law -> Partner -> Profits.

- With a 4.0+ and good LSAT score you can have law school paid for via scholarship instead of taking the PTOs money and committing to work for them for X number of years. Use the freedom of not being committed to the PTO to at least experience life in the private sector (and not necessarily prosecution). There are a lot of interesting practice areas outside of patent prosecution (patent lit, tech transactions, ITC litigation, etc ...) and it would be well worth it to see if there's a good match out there.

- The Big Law/IP boutique experience isn't monolithic. Some firms are actually pretty good with letting you maintain a reasonable work/life balance. The trick is finding them.

- If you're serious about being an administrative patent judge, you probably want private sector experience (and not just patent prosecution experience). Things might have changed since Kappos left, but PTO was on a kick where they were only hiring people with private sector experience to be patent judges. You might want to ask around and see if that still holds.

Life at the PTO is pretty damn good so if that's where you want to be, that's great. My only advice is to not close too many doors prematurely.

My big ambitions are to learn to think like a lawyer so I can argue with attorneys on a more equal footing

Aren't you already running circles around attorneys? My cases run the gamut and I'm lucky if I'm working on something close to my area of expertise. Aside from the examiners with huge communications issues, examiners rarely have trouble holding their own.

[Donashimen]

I am applying this year but I am really considering retaking the LSAT one more time. My question is, do you guys think I should take it in Dec or Feb?

Thanks