The Official June 2015 Study Group Forum

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mysojuli

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by mysojuli » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:20 pm

RZ5646 wrote:Any thoughts on PTing regularly throughout the year? There are 70-something PTs so even if I started right now I could do one per week until test day without running out of material.

I'm also studying for the June 2015~ just like you I have the GPA for a top school just working extra hard on the LSAT!

I was curious why you're not getting a prep company? You have a year to save for one...maybe you should consider getting blueprints for your last 3 months of prep. If you don't intend on using a prep company I think PTing would be great. If you could PT on all of the released tests and carefully study -ALL- the questions and why you got each one wrong I believe it would be of great benefit to you.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by HRomanus » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:23 pm

RZ5646 wrote:Pray kids with fake ADHD won't game the new accommodations rules.
:shock: :roll:

Seriously? This won't affect your score at all.

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RZ5646

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:05 pm

HRomanus wrote:
RZ5646 wrote:Pray kids with fake ADHD won't game the new accommodations rules.
:shock: :roll:

Seriously? This won't affect your score at all.
But it can make my score less competitive in comparison.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by HRomanus » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:07 pm

RZ5646 wrote:But it can make my score less competitive in comparison.
That's just being paranoid. Even assuming that it will be widely abused - which there's no evidence ot support - that won't happen in such numbers iuntil years down the road. Law school medians will be equal - if not lower - in Fall 2015, when you'll apply, than they are now - this is especially true because you're a June taker and will apply earlier.

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Motivator9

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Motivator9 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:41 pm

I'm bringing this thread back to life. I tell myself that I'm going to be ready by February but I know myself to well to know that I wont. I have a full time job so I dont have the luxury of studying 8 hours on weekdays. However, i still put in 3 hours most weekdays and 5-7 hours on the weekend.

I've been studying for about a month now. I studied for the LSAT for a while last year but had some things going on that forced me to put it aside. So I'm not starting from scratch but I am starting all of my books over again. I'm going to only focus on LR until I finish all of the LR chapters in the Trainer and MLSAT LR. Afterwards I'll incorporate LG and RC.

I have purchased the Cambridge drilling bundles for LR and have every test so I can drill LR and LGs as well.

Let's do it guys. Don't say it's too early!

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jklewis17

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by jklewis17 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:15 pm

Me too, I'll take LSAT in June 2015 just because I am not a morning person. I'm kidding. I will take LSAT no more than twice, so I will take LSAT in June and October 2015.

You all mentioned about the Trainer. Could you elaborate? Where can I find it? I have ordered the PowerScore LG/LR Bibles and Master the LSAT (for my reference).

I will start diving into the LSAT materials this week as well as developing a manageable study timeline. I hope to aim for 175-180. Ahhh! Can't you feel the pressure already?

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Motivator9

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Motivator9 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:48 pm

[quote="jklewis17"]Me too, I'll take LSAT in June 2015 just because I am not a morning person. I'm kidding. I will take LSAT no more than twice, so I will take LSAT in June and October 2015.

You all mentioned about the Trainer. Could you elaborate? Where can I find it? I have ordered the PowerScore LG/LR Bibles and Master the LSAT (for my reference).

I will start diving into the LSAT materials this week as well as developing a manageable study timeline. I hope to aim for 175-180. Ahhh! Can't you feel the pressure already?[/quote]


Here is my personal opinion on Power score. Im not a fan for the most part. In their LR book, the don't focus enough of the fundamentals of LR, which is identifying the core of the argument, something that Manhattan and The Trainer are built on. They also suggest you read the stimulus before the question, another strategy that didn't work out well for me. For LG, their approach is not flexible enough, and I don't like them using greater than/less than symbols (< > ) to separate variables. For RC, I'm not sure what their strategy is. I would suggest getting The Lsat Trainer, which can be found on Amazon. In addition to that , The Manhattan LR book is top notch . Use both of those to get a basic understanding of the fundamentals and drill specific question types as you go on using the Cambridge Lsat drilling packets, which organize questions by type and difficulty. Just do a search for them and you'll find it. There are many great study guides on these forums.You should use those to get a better understanding of what you need to do to get a great score. Hope we can be of assistance to one another.

Btw, I'm not familiar with Master the Lsat so I didn't comment on it.

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RZ5646

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:42 pm

You should be able to find the Trainer on Amazon. Almost certain that's where I got my copy.

The few chapters of the PS LG Bible that I've read have been useful, but LG is my weakness and I haven't looked at other LG books, so other systems might be better for other people. It does seem like the Bible is TLS's favorite LG book though.

Studying has been a lot more difficult than I imagined it would be... the material isn't all that difficult, but reading prep books is extremely boring and I'll do almost anything to avoid it. Add on school, work, and a social life, and it's very hard to get much done.

So far, I've found in-person study partners to be of limited use. I only know a few people who are studying for the LSAT, and none of them are all that dedicated to a practice schedule, yet at least. The only person I've been able to meet with consistently is a girl I've been chatting up, and she's more of a distraction than anything.

My last PT was 166 though, so I think it's fine for me to procrastinate a bit. I really just need to master LG... if I had gotten -0 on LG on that test, I would have gotten 178.

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Motivator9

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Motivator9 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:05 pm

RZ5646 wrote:You should be able to find the Trainer on Amazon. Almost certain that's where I got my copy.

The few chapters of the PS LG Bible that I've read have been useful, but LG is my weakness and I haven't looked at other LG books, so other systems might be better for other people. It does seem like the Bible is TLS's favorite LG book though.

Studying has been a lot more difficult than I imagined it would be... the material isn't all that difficult, but reading prep books is extremely boring and I'll do almost anything to avoid it. Add on school, work, and a social life, and it's very hard to get much done.

So far, I've found in-person study partners to be of limited use. I only know a few people who are studying for the LSAT, and none of them are all that dedicated to a practice schedule, yet at least. The only person I've been able to meet with consistently is a girl I've been chatting up, and she's more of a distraction than anything.

My last PT was 166 though, so I think it's fine for me to procrastinate a bit. I really just need to master LG... if I had gotten -0 on LG on that test, I would have gotten 178.
Wow, that's a great score to have at this point. For LGs, have you checked out 7sage's videos on YouTube, he has a video for every LG. Watch the video and drill heavily afterwards till you've mastered it.

Distractions are the worst thing to slow you down. Have your designated study time and don't let anyone bother you.

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RZ5646

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:08 pm

Motivator9 wrote:Wow, that's a great score to have at this point. For LGs, have you checked out 7sage's videos on YouTube, he has a video for every LG. Watch the video and drill heavily afterwards till you've mastered it.


Yeah I've looked into their explanations, and I'm using their site to keep track of my PTs (though I also have an excel spreadsheet). And I have their timer app. 7sage is an amazing resource.

I'm planning on taking a few more PTs over the next couple months to accumulate a bunch of LG sections and then drilling them until I'm an expert.
Last edited by RZ5646 on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Motivator9

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Motivator9 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:08 pm

Hahahahaha agreed!

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by matt487 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:35 pm

Trying to raise this thread from the dead. I had originally planned to take June 2014 but my wife being pregnant + baby's birth + new baby took up a lot of time. Like....a ton of time, and I wrote off studying for June 2014 or any other LSAT this year pretty quickly.

So let's do this thing! I did an untimed practice LSAT and scored about 152 on it, with most the trouble I'm having being centered around LG, so I've been working on LG strategy using Powerscore. I looked at 7Sage's free website and considering shelling out some money there, too.

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RZ5646

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:15 pm

matt487 wrote:Trying to raise this thread from the dead. I had originally planned to take June 2014 but my wife being pregnant + baby's birth + new baby took up a lot of time. Like....a ton of time, and I wrote off studying for June 2014 or any other LSAT this year pretty quickly.

So let's do this thing! I did an untimed practice LSAT and scored about 152 on it, with most the trouble I'm having being centered around LG, so I've been working on LG strategy using Powerscore. I looked at 7Sage's free website and considering shelling out some money there, too.
LG is also my weakness and I've also been working on it with the Bible. As you probably know, LG is the easiest to improve on, so that's fortunate for both of us.

You should definitely do a timed practice test to see what level you're starting at. Untimed doesn't mean much.

I haven't accomplished much lately. It seems that all my professors are doing midterms early this semester, so I've been busy with that. Many of the high scorers I've read about had enormous amounts of free time for LSAT prep because they had graduated and weren't working, and I see now that that's a huge advantage. I'm still confident I can achieve my target score, but with school, work, and life getting in the way, it's going to be more difficult than I anticipated.

If anyone here wants to do a one PT per week study group, let me know. We could communicate with PMs or email and review problematic questions and generally just provide each other with a structure that would promote motivation and discipline.

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Motivator9

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Motivator9 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:33 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
matt487 wrote:Trying to raise this thread from the dead. I had originally planned to take June 2014 but my wife being pregnant + baby's birth + new baby took up a lot of time. Like....a ton of time, and I wrote off studying for June 2014 or any other LSAT this year pretty quickly.

So let's do this thing! I did an untimed practice LSAT and scored about 152 on it, with most the trouble I'm having being centered around LG, so I've been working on LG strategy using Powerscore. I looked at 7Sage's free website and considering shelling out some money there, too.
LG is also my weakness and I've also been working on it with the Bible. As you probably know, LG is the easiest to improve on, so that's fortunate for both of us.

You should definitely do a timed practice test to see what level you're starting at. Untimed doesn't mean much.

I haven't accomplished much lately. It seems that all my professors are doing midterms early this semester, so I've been busy with that. Many of the high scorers I've read about had enormous amounts of free time for LSAT prep because they had graduated and weren't working, and I see now that that's a huge advantage. I'm still confident I can achieve my target score, but with school, work, and life getting in the way, it's going to be more difficult than I anticipated.

If anyone here wants to do a one PT per week study group, let me know. We could communicate with PMs or email and review problematic questions and generally just provide each other with a structure that would promote motivation and discipline.
It's too early for me to be drilling full PTs as I'm still drilling Cambridge sections. I was wondering if one of you guys could help me with a problem I've been struggling with.


PT 16, S3, Q 23.

I'm not sure why the answer choice is D because it seems to reverse the logic of the stimulus.

Thanks.

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RZ5646

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:51 pm

Motivator9 wrote: I was wondering if one of you guys could help me with a problem I've been struggling with.


PT 16, S3, Q 23.

I'm not sure why the answer choice is D because it seems to reverse the logic of the stimulus.

Thanks.

Relevant facts:
1. civil war
2. refugees are starving because of the government
3. report draft says refugees are starving because of the government
4. report does NOT give any other reasons the refugees might be starving
5. government suppresses mention of it causing starvation of refugees

Claim by journalist:
Despite the censorship, publishing this is still ethical. Why? Because it says "cleared by gov. censors."

Stimulus:
Correct answer must 1) agree with the journalist's claim, and 2) restrict information the least (out of the answer choices that satisfy condition 1, I guess).


A -- A report is unethical if it omits facts that would substantially alter the impression given of a group that likes or agrees with the facts that are actually reported (I take it that "congruent with" means "like or agrees with").

Clearly omitting the fact about the government causing the starvation would change the impression given of the government, and I'd also guess that the gov. is fine with news of starvation, since people may blame it on the rebels (the gov. just wants to return to the status quo, after all, so anything bad about the war is prima facie the fault of the rebels, who started it). So, both of the conditions for unethicalness are met by the report, and this principle clashes with the journalist's claim that it's still ethical. So this answer choice is wrong.

B -- A report is unethical if it omits facts that would exonerate one party.

By removing evidence that would dispel the suspicion that the rebels are causing the starvation, this is exactly what the censored report does, so by this principle the report is unethical. Wrong.

C -- A report is unethical if the gov has censored facts that make the gov look bad.

Again, this is exactly the case here. Wrong.

D -- A report is unethical if it has been censored, UNLESS you warn of censorship.

The disclaimer "cleared by gov. censors" is a warning of censorship, so this report meets the one condition whereby a censored report may still be ethical. Likely correct.

E -- Same as D, but the reported facts can't give a misleading impression.

Okay, so this choice also looks good. In deciding between D and E, we could reject E for two reasons. First, we could say the the censored report does give a misleading impression. Second, we could use the other condition given in the stimulus and say that this restricts information more than D.

I don't think it gives a misleading impression. Like I said in above in A and B, a reader may have a suspicion that the rebels caused the starvation, but the censored report includes no information about what is causing the starvation, so it doesn't really create a misleading impression. Any suspicion of the rebels would just be conjecture and not supported by the report.

However, E obviously restricts information more than D, since it has an additional condition that censored reports must meet. So I think it fails the second condition given in the stimulus, and so D must be the right answer.

That's my take on it anyway.

D and E do kind of reverse the logic. "Unless" means "if not," so the expression here is

Facts_Deleted --> (NO warning --> Unethical)
or, more naturally
(Facts_Deleted and NO Warning) --> Unethical

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Cavetold » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:41 pm

Checking in and for two reasons:

1) I believe it's impossible to study for a "true" score unless you are doing it full time which I can't do right now

2) You can learn LR just like you can learn LG and.....ya, still learning

Sankshu very much

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:51 am

Cavetold wrote: 1) I believe it's impossible to study for a "true" score unless you are doing it full time which I can't do right now
If someone locked me in a room and forced me to study at gunpoint, I'm certain that in June I'd emerge with a 177-180.

This is one of the reasons people say standardized tests favor the wealthy: We plebs don't have the same time and money to invest in test prep, and it shows on test day. Just gotta power through it and do your best I guess.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Cavetold » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:06 pm

Well I had to save up and planned out a bit so I could. Also changed my diet so I could live off tuna, grape nuts, and morningstar patties. Plus, I have a crappy gpa so there is no plan b. What's your plan? Work 40 study 20 every week until June??

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:29 pm

I had a really elaborate plan of studying for many hours every week, but I revised that to "do whatever I feel like whenever I feel like it." After I get through this next couple weeks of school I'll probably start doing one PT per week, thoroughly reviewing my mistakes.

My GPA is > 4.2 so mine isn't a "175 or death!" splitter situation, but I'm debt averse and looking for scholarship money so I want to do the best I can. I'm not exactly sure what score is required for a T20 full ride, but that's my primary goal.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Cavetold » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:01 pm

Well your PT scores and that gpa...as long as you can "lock" it in. I'd definitely take advantage of the Kaplan proctored tests and challenge yourself under stressors (noise, lack of sleep). You're golden.....not sure why no Feb 15' test.

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Motivator9

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Motivator9 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:07 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
Motivator9 wrote: I was wondering if one of you guys could help me with a problem I've been struggling with.


PT 16, S3, Q 23.

I'm not sure why the answer choice is D because it seems to reverse the logic of the stimulus.

Thanks.

Relevant facts:
1. civil war
2. refugees are starving because of the government
3. report draft says refugees are starving because of the government
4. report does NOT give any other reasons the refugees might be starving
5. government suppresses mention of it causing starvation of refugees

Claim by journalist:
Despite the censorship, publishing this is still ethical. Why? Because it says "cleared by gov. censors."

Stimulus:
Correct answer must 1) agree with the journalist's claim, and 2) restrict information the least (out of the answer choices that satisfy condition 1, I guess).


A -- A report is unethical if it omits facts that would substantially alter the impression given of a group that likes or agrees with the facts that are actually reported (I take it that "congruent with" means "like or agrees with").

Clearly omitting the fact about the government causing the starvation would change the impression given of the government, and I'd also guess that the gov. is fine with news of starvation, since people may blame it on the rebels (the gov. just wants to return to the status quo, after all, so anything bad about the war is prima facie the fault of the rebels, who started it). So, both of the conditions for unethicalness are met by the report, and this principle clashes with the journalist's claim that it's still ethical. So this answer choice is wrong.

B -- A report is unethical if it omits facts that would exonerate one party.

By removing evidence that would dispel the suspicion that the rebels are causing the starvation, this is exactly what the censored report does, so by this principle the report is unethical. Wrong.

C -- A report is unethical if the gov has censored facts that make the gov look bad.

Again, this is exactly the case here. Wrong.

D -- A report is unethical if it has been censored, UNLESS you warn of censorship.

The disclaimer "cleared by gov. censors" is a warning of censorship, so this report meets the one condition whereby a censored report may still be ethical. Likely correct.

E -- Same as D, but the reported facts can't give a misleading impression.

Okay, so this choice also looks good. In deciding between D and E, we could reject E for two reasons. First, we could say the the censored report does give a misleading impression. Second, we could use the other condition given in the stimulus and say that this restricts information more than D.

I don't think it gives a misleading impression. Like I said in above in A and B, a reader may have a suspicion that the rebels caused the starvation, but the censored report includes no information about what is causing the starvation, so it doesn't really create a misleading impression. Any suspicion of the rebels would just be conjecture and not supported by the report.

However, E obviously restricts information more than D, since it has an additional condition that censored reports must meet. So I think it fails the second condition given in the stimulus, and so D must be the right answer.

That's my take on it anyway.

D and E do kind of reverse the logic. "Unless" means "if not," so the expression here is

Facts_Deleted --> (NO warning --> Unethical)
or, more naturally
(Facts_Deleted and NO Warning) --> Unethical
Thank you so much for that in-depth explanation. On my first go at it, I chose D through POE, however on my review i second-guessed myself because both D and E certainly reverse the logic. However I don't think it helps to think of this answer choice strictly from a conditional point of view. D is certainly the better answer. Thanks again.

Hope everyone is staying focused. Let's keep this thread alive.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:59 pm

Cavetold wrote:Well your PT scores and that gpa...as long as you can "lock" it in. I'd definitely take advantage of the Kaplan proctored tests and challenge yourself under stressors (noise, lack of sleep). You're golden.....not sure why no Feb 15' test.
I got an email about those Kaplan on-campus tests a few days ago... Do you know if Kaplan uses real PTs or made-up ones? It seems like it would be good for their business to use extra hard fake tests instead of the real deal.

And yeah, I really just have to master logic games and I should have a pretty good app. Gotta love those A+'s... it's great being able to relax and knowing that the world won't end if I get an A- or even—the horror!—a B.

Of course I'm setting the bar extra high by trying to get scholarships. I'm going to have fairly substantial undergrad debt and no help from my parents, so a T14 full ride would be a dream come true.

Finally, I actually did consider taking the LSAT it this winter, but school ends in April so June will give me nearly 2 months of uninterrupted study time. I might not even work during that time and just study, work out, and relax.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by Cavetold » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:40 pm

RZ5646 wrote: I got an email about those Kaplan on-campus tests a few days ago... Do you know if Kaplan uses real PTs or made-up ones? It seems like it would be good for their business to use extra hard fake tests instead of the real deal.

And yeah, I really just have to master logic games and I should have a pretty good app. Gotta love those A+'s... it's great being able to relax and knowing that the world won't end if I get an A- or even—the horror!—a B.

Of course I'm setting the bar extra high by trying to get scholarships. I'm going to have fairly substantial undergrad debt and no help from my parents, so a T14 full ride would be a dream come true.

Finally, I actually did consider taking the LSAT it this winter, but school ends in April so June will give me nearly 2 months of uninterrupted study time. I might not even work during that time and just study, work out, and relax.
Yes, it was the December 2008 plus an experimental section from the June 2000. Now that I think about it, I should probably make sure they don't give the same test every time. I was planning on doing both of their November offerings, and again prior to the Feb exam. Kaplan sponsored the test at a local law school which was proctored by a couple 3Ls. The Kaplan reps did not show, so there was no small talk, just the test. They offered a tour of the school afterwards that all but about 4 of the 20 or so declined including myself. You take a passcode they give you to go on their site and enter your answers. I dropped 4 points just from pure being distracted. My goal is a 2-3 point flux between home tests and proctored/library/barnes and nobles or whatever.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by RZ5646 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:00 pm

I'll have to look into it. I should also start adding experimental sections to my PTs for endurance... maybe I'll skip to like PT 20 and use the earlier ones as experimentals and drill material.

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Re: The Official June 2015 Study Group

Post by cuboxing25 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:36 am

Im going to tentatively add myself to this list, not that I did bad or felt bad on the September LSAT, maybe its just nerves, but Im keeping all options open.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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