Think I'm Gunna Take A Class, Testmasters or Blueprint? Forum

[waxloaf]

Dorothy Mantooth is a saint!

[bp colin]

Are we we having a preptest company fight up in here???

--ImageRemoved--

^ This is why I got into the business.

[Mr. Smith]

^ This is why I got into the business.

ahahaha

I like your blog, btw.

[bp colin]

^ This is why I got into the business.

ahahaha

I like your blog, btw.

thanks!

[tomwatts]

Are we we having a preptest company fight up in here???

--ImageRemoved--

Dude! Can I be the one on the right?

[Atlas LSAT Teacher]

For the kids who might be watching.

[bp colin]

While this is getting a bit silly, there were just a couple points I did want to address.

Woah, wait, what? That's a ridiculous way to measure score improvement! If someone manages to pull together one great test and can never do it again, that skews your results. We measure first test to real test, which, granted, is much harder, because we have to contact students after the course is over and get them to tell us their scores, but is a far better measure.

I respectfully (but wholeheartedly) disagree that yours is a far better measure. Like I said before, our method is far from perfect, but it's transparent. Contacting students afterward creates a skewed sample. You lose all the people who cancelled or who decided they weren't ready and didn't take the test. I would hypothesize that these groups have smaller increases. Also, do all students report back? I would hypothesize (I know, I'm starting to sound like a reading comp passage) that people who did well would be more likely to share the Good News.

Sorry if anything I'm saying about your increase is incorrect. I wasn't able to find the info showing how you calculate the average on the site, and assumed it wasn't there, but correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: I didn't know about price, so I went to websites and checked. Looks as though BP's price and PR's price are the same (given PR's current discount). TM and Kaplan Extreme are both a few hundred dollars more.

I don't think that's fair to compare our standard price to your temporarily-discounted price. Most (maybe all?) courses have various discounts.



But let's get back to the pictures.
When will the fighting stop? Think of the children

[yoni45]

Here's ours, with all the fine print: http://www.blueprintprep.com/successstories/results.php

"Our average score increase is measured from each qualifying student's first practice exam to their best practice exam."
Woah, wait, what? That's a ridiculous way to measure score improvement! If someone manages to pull together one great test and can never do it again, that skews your results. We measure first test to real test, which, granted, is much harder, because we have to contact students after the course is over and get them to tell us their scores, but is a far better measure.

Er, are you sure that's accurate? I've been under the impression TPR went by a first-to-best approach...

If what you're saying is true though, that's pretty much entirely a self-selecting group, which is like the mother of sampling flaws...

(Okay, maybe not the mother, but it's definitely in the immediate family...)

Strongly disagree. I think the 16+ extra hours are important, especially at the end...

If we're going to be honest, it looks like those 16 hours include 9 hours' worth of proctored practice tests by a different name...?

http://www.blueprintprep.com/full/sched ... course=272

Edit: Numbers off. Must be drunk.

[NYCG8TR]

Looking for some advice.....

Here's some background:

I've taken the LSAT twice, both times using Kaplan Live Classroom. Although, I improved 12 points from my diagnostic to my actual score, I don't think the improvement was not enough to get me into the schools that I want to get in which are basically (Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's). In fact, from the Dec. test to the Feb. test my score remained the same. I can re-take the Kaplan course for a reduced price but I think that I may have gleaned as much as I can from their methods. Would you guys stick with Kaplan at a reduced price or recommend seeking out a different company at full price?

[yoni45]

Looking for some advice.....

Here's some background:

I've taken the LSAT twice, both times using Kaplan Live Classroom. Although, I improved 12 points from my diagnostic to my actual score, I don't think the improvement was not enough to get me into the schools that I want to get in which are basically (Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's). In fact, from the Dec. test to the Feb. test my score remained the same. I can re-take the Kaplan course for a reduced price but I think that I may have gleaned as much as I can from their methods. Would you guys stick with Kaplan at a reduced price or recommend seeking out a different company at full price?

What numbers are you sitting on per section?

[NYCG8TR]

Looking for some advice.....

Here's some background:

I've taken the LSAT twice, both times using Kaplan Live Classroom. Although, I improved 12 points from my diagnostic to my actual score, I don't think the improvement was not enough to get me into the schools that I want to get in which are basically (Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's). In fact, from the Dec. test to the Feb. test my score remained the same. I can re-take the Kaplan course for a reduced price but I think that I may have gleaned as much as I can from their methods. Would you guys stick with Kaplan at a reduced price or recommend seeking out a different company at full price?

What numbers are you sitting on per section?

I'm basically averaging the following:

Logical Reasoning: <70% correct (usually around 65%)
Logic Games: <50% correct (usually between 40-45%)
Reading Comp: I usually average about 75% correct

[yoni45]

What numbers are you sitting on per section?

I'm basically averaging the following:

Logical Reasoning: <70% correct (usually around 65%)
Logic Games: <50% correct (usually between 40-45%)
Reading Comp: I usually average about 75% correct

Well, for one, I definitely wouldn't retake Kaplan for money -- I don't think you'll get anything more from that. One option is to use the materials you have already to work on what's holding you back (mostly games) -- work through games slowly, figure out an efficient manner for every question you do, etc.

While I don't entirely like PowerScore's methodology, they produce one of the only commercially available book that provides a solid strategy to tackle games. While I might not agree with them on many things, their approach undeniably does work quite well, and is more than likely superior to Kaplan's. It does mean you'll have to adjust your ways, however. Given that Kaplan's not working for you though, I'd take the plunge with the PowerScore games bible.

The same largely applies to arguments as well. Take note that when you study, you need to aim for perfecting everything you do before you rush to do things quickly. Dissect every question, and work towards pulling the learning points from every one you do. For games, make sure that you're not only getting the right answers, but that you're getting the right answers in the most efficient manner possible.

[tomwatts]

Er, are you sure that's accurate?

Yes.

I've been under the impression TPR went by a first-to-best approach...

No.

If what you're saying is true though, that's pretty much entirely a self-selecting group, which is like the mother of sampling flaws...

We don't let them just get back to us however they feel like it. We contact them. It's like when a polling company does a phone survey and calls a bunch of people to get a representative sample. Same deal. Not a self-selecting group, except for the ones who hang up on us. (It is true, though, that we're not counting the people who stop coming to class, cancel their scores, etc.)

[LawLucy]

I'd just like to say that Testmasters seems to be really hit or miss. Other people might disagree, but my personal experience was that they pulled a few unprofessional moves (canceling classes and changing the date, which, given that many people have pretty rigid schedules and need to make time for the 8 hrs/ wk of an LSAT class is not exactly commendable). I also found their customer service to be rude and unresponsive. Lastly, I had 2 teachers. The second guy we got was good, but the first one was beyond useless. It's money I really regret having spent.[/quote]


You only had two?
We had four..yes 4 instructors within 6 weeks and getting anyone at TM to give us direct answers about what was going on was like pulling teeth.

I vote Powerscore all the way, after the fiasco and wasting of $1500 on TM..I am quite happy with PS

[lawandi]

I love blueprint. I'm over half way through my class right now, and have been satisfied with every hour I've spent studying and learning. My teacher is really entertaining, and the class seems to fly by even though it's four hours. No joke, I'd prefer a 4 hour blueprint class to a 2 hour regular class any day.
Plus, the online videos explaining logic games questions are super helpful. If you take this course, no supplemental material will be necessary.

[acrossthepond]

Blueprint all the way. I took Blueprint The Movie, being currently in England, and it was excellent. I can imagine that it is even better in person. I went up 13 points from my diagnostic and I didn't even get to finish the course because I ran out of time. I imagine if I had finished the last 3 lessons I would have been able to grab a couple more points.

And, having to deal with them mostly over the phone, they are insanely helpful.

[crossingforHYS]

So I am going to insert my 2cents.
I studied with PS bibles before hand and then took blueprint (or am currently) and I LOVE it. I had afew scheduling issues so I had to go to different classes and I have to say I believed that every teacher was magnificent in their own way and cared about the students.
plus you can't beat blueprints online stuff, they have answers (video or audio) to almost every question on the homework. If their not there you will have plenty of time to ask your instructor after or before class and they will spend time with you on the questions...no matter how late!!!

[mikehoe]

Has anyone taken Blueprint in the Bay Area? The Blueprint website only shows Berkeley for NorCal. If I take Blueprint (compared to TestMasters) I will be taking the Berkeley course. Can anyone provide testimonials for Blueprint in Berkeley?

[lawandi]

I'm taking it in Berkeley. The instructor out here Nick, and he's awesome. They have a classroom down on Shattuck that's nice. What else do you want to know specifically about Berkeley?

[mikehoe]

I'm taking it in Berkeley. The instructor out here Nick, and he's awesome. They have a classroom down on Shattuck that's nice. What else do you want to know specifically about Berkeley?

I don't need to know anything about the city of Berkeley, i quite familiar with the area. I just wanted to hear more about Nick Rey and individual experiences people have had with Blueprint.

[autarkh]

I tutor privately, and I've had occasion to review the materials for both. I liked Blueprint a lot more, but both seem very good and are vastly superior to Kaplan.

Anecdotally, I've had more complaints from Testmasters students that their teachers plow ahead without making sure students grasp the material.

A class will give you a method and baseline of practice, as well as a measure of accountability. DO ALL of the homework. But once you're done, start taking full-on 5 section practice tests under realistic conditions. Like 20+. None of the test prep companies stress this enough.

[bp colin]

I just wanted to hear more about Nick Rey and individual experiences people have had with Blueprint.

Nick and I both taught in Berkeley before he took the lead reins when I left for New York. I think he's great, but you should ask students' opinions. Or find out for yourself; if you call the head Blueprint office, they might be able to arrange for you to sit in on part of one of his classes. The number is 888 4 BP PREP.

[Florence62]

We so desperately need the brick-and-mortar Blueprint courses in Atlanta. Expand, I say! Expand!

[NYCG8TR]

Blueprint all the way. I took Blueprint The Movie, being currently in England, and it was excellent. I can imagine that it is even better in person. I went up 13 points from my diagnostic and I didn't even get to finish the course because I ran out of time. I imagine if I had finished the last 3 lessons I would have been able to grab a couple more points.

And, having to deal with them mostly over the phone, they are insanely helpful.

I'm leaning towards Blueprint. I only wish they would allow you to reserve a seat with a partial deposit like many of the other companies do. Unfortunately, that may be the deciding factor for me.

[bp colin]

We so desperately need the brick-and-mortar Blueprint courses in Atlanta. Expand, I say! Expand!

Hopefully one day. There's the video course, though, if you want to take that route. A lot of TLSers have