June 2011 Study Group Forum

[coldshoulder]

The location of my LSAT administration is not exactly a top law school, and it's in a not so great area. I'm now terrified that my score could potentially be ruined by distractions or a poor proctor. I can handle background noise/coughing/sneezing/doors opening but I've always had an issue with people talking.

There shouldn't be anyone talking during your test. The most there would be would be a tiny bit of outside noise, it's always in a seperate room from anything else going on. If that was your biggest problem you're gonna kick ass!
I had some damn kids playing right outside my house, and they were yelling so loudly through the RC section. Killed me.

Edit: apparently, I enjoy being top of thread pages. lol.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

Taking a few more finals on this dreary day. Wish I were studying instead. fml

[JG7773]

Don't forget, tonight at 8 pm ET we will have a session in the room. The margarita machine is up and running and the LSAT questions are overflowing.

[Manhattan LSAT Noah]

Oops, just realized I didn't hit submit on this yesterday. Too many tabs open!

One idea: After you play a game, figure out the inferences you wish you had figured out. Replay it immediately. Then, a week later replay the same game. rinse and repeat.

Thanks, just tried that with a few games and i was able to make all the inferences the second time.

Also, how can you tell how much times you should spend diagraming the question. I've found that on some questions it is worth it to spend 3 or 4 minutes diagramming properly because the questions are mostly global, however sometimes the questions feature mostly local questions and then it takes me about 10 or 11 minutes to do the questions if i spend that much time diagramming.

I don't really know how i should be approaching these logic games. Whenever i take a PT that is about 45 or above i usually don't have much trouble and get a -1 or -0, but I'm taking the PT's in the 30's now and I'm getting crushed on LG, -5 or -6. I only need a one or two more questions to break 170, but on the earlier practice tests i get killed on LG and do fine on RC, but on the newer PT's i do fine on LG and get killed by RC

I'm not a fan or worrying too much about which PT#, though pre-2000 were generally tougher in our opinion. More importantly, to your question about how much time to spend diagramming, definitely continue diagramming if you're figuring out stuff. If you don't see inferences coming, look for some connected rules, and if it's still not there, then roll into the questions. Question #2 is often a good indicator of whether you have a general grasp of the game.

[jim-green]

Thanks, very valuable yet again!

I'm not a fan or worrying too much about which PT#, though pre-2000 were generally tougher in our opinion. More importantly, to your question about how much time to spend diagramming, definitely continue diagramming if you're figuring out stuff. If you don't see inferences coming, look for some connected rules, and if it's still not there, then roll into the questions. Question #2 is often a good indicator of whether you have a general grasp of the game.

[Eichörnchen]

The location of my LSAT administration is not exactly a top law school, and it's in a not so great area. I'm now terrified that my score could potentially be ruined by distractions or a poor proctor. I can handle background noise/coughing/sneezing/doors opening but I've always had an issue with people talking.

Hey Mickey that would be soo distracting! I feel your pain about test location fear - the only place remotely close for me is a sketchy community college. Yayyy. At least you know worst case scenario, you can still get an awesome score when very distracted.

Don't forget, tonight at 8 pm ET we will have a session in the room. The margarita machine is up and running and the LSAT questions are overflowing.

Hey JG, have email been going out for study group? Last one I got was 4/19.

And for anyone who wants extra RC practice, Gev and I will be in the study room at 1:00 today going over PT 49's RC. Come join if you want extra practice or if you have any nuggets of wisdom

[Ssushi]

Oops, just realized I didn't hit submit on this yesterday. Too many tabs open!

One idea: After you play a game, figure out the inferences you wish you had figured out. Replay it immediately. Then, a week later replay the same game. rinse and repeat.

Thanks, just tried that with a few games and i was able to make all the inferences the second time.

Also, how can you tell how much times you should spend diagraming the question. I've found that on some questions it is worth it to spend 3 or 4 minutes diagramming properly because the questions are mostly global, however sometimes the questions feature mostly local questions and then it takes me about 10 or 11 minutes to do the questions if i spend that much time diagramming.

I don't really know how i should be approaching these logic games. Whenever i take a PT that is about 45 or above i usually don't have much trouble and get a -1 or -0, but I'm taking the PT's in the 30's now and I'm getting crushed on LG, -5 or -6. I only need a one or two more questions to break 170, but on the earlier practice tests i get killed on LG and do fine on RC, but on the newer PT's i do fine on LG and get killed by RC

I'm not a fan or worrying too much about which PT#, though pre-2000 were generally tougher in our opinion. More importantly, to your question about how much time to spend diagramming, definitely continue diagramming if you're figuring out stuff. If you don't see inferences coming, look for some connected rules, and if it's still not there, then roll into the questions. Question #2 is often a good indicator of whether you have a general grasp of the game.

Thanks for the great advice man. One thing I've noticed is that when I do a problem, I don't have much trouble with most of the questions and can get it down to about 6 minutes now. However it is the last two problems in every game that are the most difficult and I usually miss one of the two and instead of finishing the game in 6 or 7 minutes it takes me 10 or more if I attempt to do the last two problems. Usually the questions are so complex I have to diagram a whole number of possible solutions which takes time and is inaccurate because I invariable forget a rule.

Also how would you suggest approaching Must Be True questions. I realize I'm missing these ones a lot because I often view them as Could Be True questions, and then I find the solution works, but doesn't necessarily have to be true. Again a lot of the problem is that I fail to see the proper inferences. I'm almost always able to tell what Must Be False because I understand the NOT LAWS, but i have trouble identifying what must be true unless it's blatantly obvious.

I'm guessing these are things that just click after repetition?

[tiniestdancer7]

ugh...class, pt49 (since i'm lazy and didn't do it yesterday), then more class!.

[coldshoulder]

PT 44
LR: -2/-1
RC: -3
LG: -0
94/174
This really shows how much a curve can affect your score. I was -6 on the last three test, with a 177, 176, and 174 resulting. LR is still doing quite well, and RC is still more difficult in the 40's. Missed all three on one science section.
Also, this was the easiest LG section I've ever done. Finished the entire thing in 25 minutes, and I generally need the full 35.

[theaether]

PT 42
LG: -1
LR: -2
RC: -1
LR: -5
=172
What happened in that last LR...?
Starting to think of postponing. This range of scores doesn't get me anywhere.

[Manhattan LSAT Noah]

Thanks for the great advice man. One thing I've noticed is that when I do a problem, I don't have much trouble with most of the questions and can get it down to about 6 minutes now. However it is the last two problems in every game that are the most difficult and I usually miss one of the two and instead of finishing the game in 6 or 7 minutes it takes me 10 or more if I attempt to do the last two problems. Usually the questions are so complex I have to diagram a whole number of possible solutions which takes time and is inaccurate because I invariable forget a rule.

Some end game questions do require new diagrams, but not all. You might have an inefficient approach - hard to say without watching you in action. But, as for the last part, that's a careless error and you should focus on cleaning those up. When you make one, re-do the game (there's that same advice again) so that the error gets unstuck. Bad habits take a while to undo.

Also how would you suggest approaching Must Be True questions. I realize I'm missing these ones a lot because I often view them as Could Be True questions, and then I find the solution works, but doesn't necessarily have to be true. Again a lot of the problem is that I fail to see the proper inferences. I'm almost always able to tell what Must Be False because I understand the NOT LAWS, but i have trouble identifying what must be true unless it's blatantly obvious.

For Must be true, if there's no new condition, you should be able to determine the answer from your initial diagram and a bit of thought. Often the answer is a "duh!" one, so be lazy and defer judgment on complex answers as you look for the easy one. For conditional questions, your work with the new rule should generally take you all the way to the answer, or at least close.

I'm guessing these are things that just click after repetition?

That's true for cleaning up certain things and pacing, but if you're approaching the questions through trial and error, etc., you want to change your approach in a more fundamental manner.

[soj]

PT55
LR1: -1
LRe (PT21 S3 LR2): -1
RC: -0
LR2: -2
LG: -1
Raw: -4
Scaled: 177

OMG RC -0!!! Suck it, Chinese talk-story! Feels great to slay that infamous beast right after killing riddled basins. The last time I did better in RC than in LG was NEVER.

Median scaled score went up .5

I could have had -0 in LRe and -1 in LR2 if I had had even 10 extra seconds. I simply didn't have enough time to finish the last Q--the Qs right before them unexpectedly sucked my time. I think I spent 6 minutes on the last two Qs of LRe alone. In other words, pacing could use work.

LG felt shaky, brain was tired. However, I managed to recover well from initially misdiagramming the extremely tricky rules of Game 4 (bus stops), quickly realizing my mistakes and fixing them right away. Got Q23 wrong and totally deserved it, too, because I picked an attractive-looking answer without going through the rest of the ACs. That's what happens when you're running low on time on the last question of the exam. I thought games in the 50s were supposed to be easier?

But -0 RC!!! Maybe (fingers crossed) I don't suck at RC anymore.

[Eichörnchen]

The last time I did better in RC than in LG was NEVER.

Congrats on another killer score Soj! Glad to know you slayed RC, although have you ever "sucked" at anything? I'd bet not. Somehow I imagine that you are the product of Plato and a psychometrician's loving union.

[soj]

Apparently I'm not a great recordkeeper because it's not true that I've never done worse in LG than in RC. Looks like I got -1 RC and -3 LG on PT12 in March. Which also kills my claim of having gotten -1 RC for the first time on Tuesday in PT50.

I still can't believe it. I feel like a Boston Bruins fan after the Bruins just beat the Canadiens (something that rarely happens). I felt good while doing the past two RCs, and I felt a little surer when selecting between ACs I couldn't eliminate, but I didn't think I could pull off -1 or -0. To be fair, one of the passages I did today I'd seen before way back in February (the comparative reading, from the RCB), and I definitely didn't do well on it the first time.

As for not sucking, you don't wanna know how many Qs I got wrong on my first time through half of the RCB. (I stopped after that so I wouldn't spoil myself on the comp passages.)

[mickeyD]

Congrats! I just took PT55 last weekend. Mind explaining to me how you picked the right answer on RC #27? I looked at the question and started laughing because A, B, and E all seemed like they could be right.

[soj]

The author is using "standard" to mean common and not-speculative. As in not special. The other ACs describe ways the word could be used in other contexts, but not this one.

I actually have to run to work right now (work starts on the hour), but I'll try to explain in greater detail when I come back.

[mickeyD]

Term shifts and subtle changes in wording kill me. I think I get one LR question wrong per test by failing to notice the change of a word in the conclusion. Even when I still get the question right, I lose valuable time by not seeing it the first read through.

I feel like once you get to the low-mid 170s, everything is even more frustrating. You know why you're getting things wrong but you just keep doing it over and over again.

[mickeyD]

Gev, October??

Say it ain't so.. You just scored 170+ twice in a row!

[theaether]

Term shifts and subtle changes in wording kill me. I think I get one LR question wrong per test by failing to notice the change of a word in the conclusion. Even when I still get the question right, I lose valuable time by not seeing it the first read through.

I feel like once you get to the low-mid 170s, everything is even more frustrating. You know why you're getting things wrong but you just keep doing it over and over again.

Yes, definitely agree here. Feel like in 2nd grade or whatever again, doing those "careless mistakes" in math class when theoretically should be getting 100% every time.

At this point, I don't know which option I should choose, with -1 LG -1 RC and around -6.5 combined in LR in the past 3 PTs. I'd need as much above 75th percentile LSAT of the schools in question as I am currently below their 25th in GPA, to hopefully have a chance to have my application read.

a) Burn through remaining 21 PTs in the next 30 days and try to destroy June
b) Mellowed out 8-12ish PTs in the next 30 days with around 2-3 timed sections on non-PT days, possibly cancelling or maybe even SCORING June, and then deciding whether or not to retake
c) Direct postponement to Oct.

It's eating at me...

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

Yes, definitely agree here. Feel like in 2nd grade or whatever again, doing those "careless mistakes" in math class when theoretically should be

a) Burn through remaining 21 PTs in the next 30 days and try to destroy June

TITCR. Not even a question really. You go hard like this will be the only chance you have. And what's the worst that can happen? A retake? The only downside to taking in June is the slight chance of a retake, and with where you're at right now I think waiting till Oct would be a mistake imo. The pressure will be triple if you wait. You're in a groove and you have ~30 days. Kill it

Also, 21 may be a bit much in 30 days (would be for me), but you know your limits.

[Eichörnchen]

Gev, October??

Say it ain't so.. You just scored 170+ twice in a row!

'Tis true, at least as of our RC powwow earlier. It's weird to see him in the Oct thread. He's left us for a younger woman Just kiddin', he just wants to be sure he can get firmly in the 170s.

[mickeyD]

I just feel like he's selling himself short. He's peaking at the right time. 30 days is a lot of time guys. We tell ourselves that it's not a lot of time because we're nervous, because we don't want to jinx it, but in the back of our heads we know that we can and will accomplish a lot in 30 days. No, I'm not where I want to be at in games and LR, and yes, it scares me to death, but I know that I'm close. Everyone in this thread, Gev included, is so close.

Now is not the time to play the "I don't want to get my hopes up" card. Now is the time to be confident. We all know that all of us in this thread are very intelligent- exceptionally intelligent. No, I'm not being cocky. I'm saying that while I'm scared to death, I know that I can do a lot in 30 days, and I know that if I go balls out, I will probably get to where I want to be. Let's kill this thing.

[tmon]

PT 55

LR1: -3
RC: -3 ( )
LR2: -3
LG: -2 ( )

-11/+89=168 ( )

RC turned out well...wasn't necessarily expecting that. LR is somewhat as expected...just wish I could dip a little lower. Annoyed at the -2 LG, though it wasn't the easiest section. Seemed like 1 easy game, 1 sort of medium, and 2 pretty complicated. Got to the last game (bus stops) and needed about 10 minutes for it and got one wrong.

I'm starting to seriously consider October, like others around here. Because I'm in an Americorps term of service which ends mid-June, I could conveniently take a large portion of the summer off and study, although I'd like to get some relevant experience and am pursuing a few jobs right now. Even if I got one though, I'd still obviously have more time to try to consistently get a score like this in RC, cement LG, and hopefully get LR down a little. I'm up in the air at the moment, but I'm probably more likely to err on the side of putting the test off because I've already taken it once, as well as no-showed another time and am aiming for any T14. But I've got at least a couple tests and some RC and LR work I want to do before then.

I'm not sure what would convince me to stay with June at this point to be honest though. I want to show consistency nearing my goal. I haven't yet, and don't really have time before the date change deadline, I think.

I guess we'll see.

Edit: sorry for the semi-downer followup post, Mickey

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

PT 55

LR1: -3
RC: -3 ( )
LR2: -3
LG: -2 ( )

-11/+89=168 ( )

RC turned out well...wasn't necessarily expecting that. LR is somewhat as expected...just wish I could dip a little lower. Annoyed at the -2 LG, though it wasn't the easiest section. Seemed like 1 easy game, 1 sort of medium, and 2 pretty complicated. Got to the last game (bus stops) and needed about 10 minutes for it and got one wrong.

I'm starting to seriously consider October, like others around here. Because I'm in an Americorps term of service which ends mid-June, I could conveniently take a large portion of the summer off and study, although I'd like to get some relevant experience and am pursuing a few jobs right now. Even if I got one though, I'd still obviously have more time to try to consistently get a score like this in RC, cement LG, and hopefully get LR down a little. I'm up in the air at the moment, but I'm probably more likely to err on the side of putting the test off because I've already taken it once, as well as no-showed another time and am aiming for any T14. But I've got at least a couple tests and some RC and LR work I want to do before then.

I'm not sure what would convince me to stay with June at this point to be honest though. I want to show consistency nearing my goal. I haven't yet, and don't really have time before the date change deadline, I think.

I guess we'll see.

Edit: sorry for the semi-downer followup post, Mickey

It sounds like your situation is a lot different. You've already spent 2/3 of your tries and it sounds like you have one remaining. I would probably go for Oct. based on the info

[Eichörnchen]

I just feel like he's selling himself short. He's peaking at the right time. 30 days is a lot of time guys. We tell ourselves that it's not a lot of time because we're nervous, because we don't want to jinx it, but in the back of our heads we know that we can and will accomplish a lot in 30 days. No, I'm not where I want to be at in games and LR, and yes, it scares me to death, but I know that I'm close. Everyone in this thread, Gev included, is so close.

Now is not the time to play the "I don't want to get my hopes up" card. Now is the time to be confident. We all know that all of us in this thread are very intelligent- exceptionally intelligent. No, I'm not being cocky. I'm saying that while I'm scared to death, I know that I can do a lot in 30 days, and I know that if I go balls out, I will probably get to where I want to be. Let's kill this thing.

I know I really need to keep that attitude up. I wanna kill it in June soo bad, but then all this Oct talk really threw me. To be honest a week or so back I really thought I couldn't do it and would switch to Oct, then I got myself back in the right mindset, and then when Gev told me he pushed his back I relapsed and thought I was Oct- bound too (No fault of his whatsoever, it's just my own insecurities about games) But then a certain sunshine state brought me back to June I have decided I'm taking in June pretty much no matter what (I'd rather have a score to fall back on even if I do have to retake) so I may as well kill it and be done! I just did a game and seriously spent 40 minutes on it, writing my initial thoughts and thinking about the rules until I extracted all possibilities and implications. I realized after tips from PK and Gev, plus Gev literally walking me through a game in the room for the ridiculous amount of time it took me to do (what.a.trooper!) that I think that I should be taking as long as I need to to not only get all the questions but really understand the game in all its complexities. Hopefully this will help me, and I think we all have our own "thing" that we need to work on, but overall I think a month is enough time for the issues we all have. (and I think I'm doing worse than everyone else so if I have a sliver of hope you guys are all good )

After we kill it in June we need to have a two week long party to distract ourselves until scores come out. And Gev better come because he is still a member of our June study group.

ps keep in mind that this is coming before I have PTed again after my epic fail on 4/21 which led to a PT hiatus, so if I come crying to the board tomorrow night about how I suck and can't do it, don't be extremely shocked.