June 2011 Study Group Forum

[coldshoulder]

Halfway through PT 43. Holy shit, this RC was ridiculous. Most of the passages were above average length, and it was 28 questions. Barely finished and I gave myself the full 35 minutes.

[Eichörnchen]

OhOkay we need to make a swap- my comfort with RC for yours in games I have to say when it comes to RC I prefer simplicity. My "strategy" can literally be boiled down to the following:
1. Stay interested. If you're not, fake it.
2. Underline viewpoint and put "V" beside the line, or "Av" for author's view and "CV" for if it's a passage that talks about specific critics' viewpoints. That way if I need to track viewpoints for a question it just takes a quick scan.
3. Box names
4. If it's an unusually hard passage to follow (ie painfully boring and overwrought or comparing 5 scientific theories) I write a few key words after each paragraph. It helps keep me involved in the evolution of the passage and allows me to reference info quickly

bing bang boom you're done. Although my RC is admittedly not perfect (average of -3 over my 11 PTs although I have a random -9 from a bad interruption that is dragging that avg down a bit haha) I will worry about refining it if I ever slay the hideous beast that is LG. Ugh. I still take ~10 minutes for a game and often still get -1 on it I just don't know how to get faster. Not to mention that I'm terrified of getting a game that I'm unsure of how to approach (as still sometimes happens).

Thanks, Eich! I haven't been tracking author point-of-view specifically, that is smart, and probs super helpful for Main Point q's, which I tend to suck at. And I'm really going to have to get better about this faking being interested business

Have you tried categorizing the games you've already done (done well, as in done a 2nd or 3rd time, as efficiently as possible) based on diagram strategy? What I mean is, a while ago I went back over a bunch of the games I did and looked for patterns in how I diagrammed, and then sorted them based on that. Then I tried looking at what was similar in the game rules that made those particular diagramming strategies the most efficient. Admittedly, I didn't do this thoroughly and quit by the time I got to basic grouping games, but I plan on doing this with the rest of the game types by the end of the week. It really helped me figure out when it's more efficient to try to do templates, when to look for what sort of inferences, etc. Anyway, just a thought

No problem, happy to help. And good tip for games. I'm feeling really stuck right now. I have a stack of games in the order I did them, with my time, score and type at the top. After an unplanned (and unwanted ) 'break' I am afraid I've slid back to sucking as much as ever. I just did the game with tourists, guides and languages and it took me 11:26. I got -0 but when I did this game the first time last week I did the same in almost the exact same time. Now I just did a fruit stand grouping game (PT 36 G1) and took almost 10 minutes and still got -3/6! Ughhhh I feel like I'm destined to drill 25 games a day until test day and get nothing accomplished

[pkpop]

No problem, happy to help. And good tip for games. I'm feeling really stuck right now. I have a stack of games in the order I did them, with my time, score and type at the top. After an unplanned (and unwanted ) 'break' I am afraid I've slid back to sucking as much as ever. I just did the game with tourists, guides and languages and it took me 11:26. I got -0 but when I did this game the first time last week I did the same in almost the exact same time. Now I just did a fruit stand grouping game (PT 36 G1) and took almost 10 minutes and still got -3/6! Ughhhh I feel like I'm destined to drill 25 games a day until test day and get nothing accomplished

What I would say to this is to look over both games now and figure out what held you up. Was it the set up or the questions? I have a habit of circling questions that I know I spent a little bit longer on. It also makes it easier to find trends or types of questions that I've been stuck on. If I find that I circled #11 (or got it wrong) on a particular grouping game, I make sure that I go over - step by step - the process in that question to finding the right answer (or what made me choose the wrong one.) If it's the set up that is taking you a long time, I would actually slowly go through the game again and make a "walkthrough" to setting it up. Write it on paper as if you are writing to explain the game to someone else.
Review the tourists game, find out what question slowed you down, and try again tomorrow. Same with fruit stand. To me personally, it doesn't matter if you remember the answers, it's more about working through the game to find them.

I know you said you said wi-fi problems, but I will actually be in the room for a few hours. Stop by and we can go over games.

edit: I just looked and tourists/guides is one of the LSAT blog "10 hardest." I think 11 min w/ -0 isn't as bad as you think. I know next time you do it, it will be under 10 minutes!

[Eichörnchen]

No problem, happy to help. And good tip for games. I'm feeling really stuck right now. I have a stack of games in the order I did them, with my time, score and type at the top. After an unplanned (and unwanted ) 'break' I am afraid I've slid back to sucking as much as ever. I just did the game with tourists, guides and languages and it took me 11:26. I got -0 but when I did this game the first time last week I did the same in almost the exact same time. Now I just did a fruit stand grouping game (PT 36 G1) and took almost 10 minutes and still got -3/6! Ughhhh I feel like I'm destined to drill 25 games a day until test day and get nothing accomplished

What I would say to this is to look over both games now and figure out what held you up. Was it the set up or the questions? I have a habit of circling questions that I know I spent a little bit longer on. It also makes it easier to find trends or types of questions that I've been stuck on. If I find that I circled #11 (or got it wrong) on a particular grouping game, I make sure that I go over - step by step - the process in that question to finding the right answer (or what made me choose the wrong one.) If it's the set up that is taking you a long time, I would actually slowly go through the game again and make a "walkthrough" to setting it up. Write it on paper as if you are writing to explain the game to someone else.
Review the tourists game, find out what question slowed you down, and try again tomorrow. Same with fruit stand. To me personally, it doesn't matter if you remember the answers, it's more about working through the game to find them.

I know you said you said wi-fi problems, but I will actually be in the room for a few hours. Stop by and we can go over games.

edit: I just looked and tourists/guides is one of the LSAT blog "10 hardest." I think 11 min w/ -0 isn't as bad as you think. I know next time you do it, it will be under 10 minutes!

Well that does make me feel better. Also I just reviewed the fruit stand one from PT 36 and I completely messed up writing a rule. It says "If the stand carries watermelons, then it carries figs or tangerines or both" and instead of using W > F and/or T, I did F and/or O. Umm dumb. That's why games are so scary; one false letter and you get a bunch of questions wrong.

And you are correct, I just moved and am sans wifi (except a temporary aircard that has 200 mgs/month but I bet our room would drain that sucker fast). So I wish I could now, but I plan on studying at the library tomorrow so I will have the room up then. I think tonight I'll go through my stack of done games and see which ones gave me the most trouble and see if there is a pattern as you suggest. For now I will keep doing my LR review of PT 29 and 52 and I'll do more games later for sure. I'm glad I resisted my urge to PT today because I still have a lot I'd like to go over again. With the pressure of the fast-approaching test date, it's easy to feel like I need to churn out PTs. If I finish my reviews tonight, I will PT tomorrow (first one since my plummet back down to 162 followed by a long break from Pting...Gulp, I hope I have some improvement!)

[Ssushi]

One idea: After you play a game, figure out the inferences you wish you had figured out. Replay it immediately. Then, a week later replay the same game. rinse and repeat.

Thanks, just tried that with a few games and i was able to make all the inferences the second time.

Also, how can you tell how much times you should spend diagraming the question. I've found that on some questions it is worth it to spend 3 or 4 minutes diagramming properly because the questions are mostly global, however sometimes the questions feature mostly local questions and then it takes me about 10 or 11 minutes to do the questions if i spend that much time diagramming.

I don't really know how i should be approaching these logic games. Whenever i take a PT that is about 45 or above i usually don't have much trouble and get a -1 or -0, but I'm taking the PT's in the 30's now and I'm getting crushed on LG, -5 or -6. I only need a one or two more questions to break 170, but on the earlier practice tests i get killed on LG and do fine on RC, but on the newer PT's i do fine on LG and get killed by RC

[mickeyD]

One idea: After you play a game, figure out the inferences you wish you had figured out. Replay it immediately. Then, a week later replay the same game. rinse and repeat.

This.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

I'm taking the PT's in the 30's now and I'm getting crushed on LG, -5 or -6. I only need a one or two more questions to break 170, but on the earlier practice tests i get killed on LG and do fine on RC, but on the newer PT's i do fine on LG and get killed by RC

IMO, worry more about 45+ and less about 30s. A lot of people agree games have gotten easier, and RC has gotten much harder (well, except for a couple people I suppose). LG is one of my best sections and 30s LG killed me and left me demoralized. Nonetheless I think if you can perform well on 30s LG you are in good shape for the modern games

Edit: PT 36-40 LG avg. -1.5. Hope I stay this consistent when I break out the PTs later this week!

[gaud]

One idea: After you play a game, figure out the inferences you wish you had figured out. Replay it immediately. Then, a week later replay the same game. rinse and repeat.

+1, definitely great advice. I am certain that my consistency in LG is due to repetition. I ALWAYS erase the games and re-do them multiple times, especially if I made an error.

[mickeyD]

I hate necessary assumption questions. Something in my brain is just incapable of seeing the right answer. I'm always looking at the questions from the wrong perspective, and even when I negate the wrong answers, they seem necessary to me. I always have those "ohhhhh" moments after I read the answers and work them in my head.

I'm about to change my strategy to "Oh, you picked A and think its right? Then its wrong. Pick the answer that you eliminated first and think is completely irrelevant."

[OhOkay]

Speaking of getting killed by LG -- on break from Superprep B. WOW. I feel like I just got steamrolled.

[Eichörnchen]

I hate necessary assumption questions. Something in my brain is just incapable of seeing the right answer. I'm always looking at the questions from the wrong perspective, and even when I negate the wrong answers, they seem necessary to me. I always have those "ohhhhh" moments after I read the answers and work them in my head.

I'm about to change my strategy to "Oh, you picked A and think its right? Then its wrong. Pick the answer that you eliminated first and think is completely irrelevant."

I hate them too Probably my worst kind of LR question.

Just out of random curiosity, about how many hours are you all putting in at this point?

[coldshoulder]

My plan is to take 1 test a day, from 43 to 62, every day except fridays and saturdays all the way til the weekend before the test. So about 4-5 hours a day including review.

[geverett]

I'm in the room right now if anybody wants to go over some stuff. There are a few questions I am somewhat stumped on.

[Eichörnchen]

My plan is to take 1 test a day, from 43 to 62, every day except fridays and saturdays all the way til the weekend before the test. So about 4-5 hours a day including review.

Ok because I am trying to figure out how to fix the trainwreck that is my LG section while still doing PTs I feel like I need to drill LG every day (for seventeen years) but I can't go on not taking PTs for much longer. Maybe I will do a PT every other day, with review and drilling in between....it doesn't help that I review PTs at a snail's pace. I don't know what my problem is there.

[gaud]

My plan is to take 1 test a day, from 43 to 62, every day except fridays and saturdays all the way til the weekend before the test. So about 4-5 hours a day including review.

Ok because I am trying to figure out how to fix the trainwreck that is my LG section while still doing PTs I feel like I need to drill LG every day (for seventeen years) but I can't go on not taking PTs for much longer. Maybe I will do a PT every other day, with review and drilling in between....it doesn't help that I review PTs at a snail's pace. I don't know what my problem is there.

Make sure that your reviews are done in a way so that YOU understand why you got the question wrong and why the other choice was right. I just want to make sure that you don't get caught up in reviewing in the same day just because another person does. Take as much time as you need to understand every detail. (I do every other day (test, review, test, review, off)) It gives me time each day to relax to prevent burnouts.

Really just make sure you do what works for you

[mickeyD]

Looks like my days of bombing LG sections are not even close to over.

Got absolutely worked by PT14 LG. Breezed through games 1 and 2 but was overwhelmed by the complexity of game 3. Skipped the game after the first 3 questions but the stress from it likely caused the huge reading error I made in game 4. Thankfully it was an experimental, but since I plan on using the other PT14 sections to form a composite, it counts for all intents and purposes.

On a break from PT25, 28 question RC was a beast. I finished the first 2 passages in 15 minutes but somehow ran out of time (the combination of P3 and P4 of PT25 could be the toughest end of a RC I've ever seen).

I'm getting killed on time. It doesn't help that I've just started using my forrealz test day timing device- I've underestimated the luxury of the digital timer on my cell phone. Glancing at the watch and not seeing the exact number of minutes and seconds you have remaining (unless you want to stare at it for an extra second or two) doesn't give you the comfort or precise evaluation of your pacing strategy that the digital timer does.

[maxpower430]

just got done with superprep A, haven't had much time to dig into it, but here we go

LR1: -1 (missed #7, never gotten a -0 before and figures it would be one of the first 10.)
RC: -0 (Not sure if i was more comfortable with the minority film makers than i would have been if i hadn't read some of the discussion on it a few weeks back, but i'll still take it haha)
LG: -6 (completely bombed the second game, misread the set up and missed that there was only one presentation on the 2nd day, when i realized i was able to quickly get them all right, but alas it was after time was up)
LR2: -1 (missed #8 this time, felt like this section was a trickier than the first, but that may be because it was last)

Raw: 93
Scaled: 171 (would have been a 177 if i hadn't totally screwed up logic games, but i guess that is a lesson in and of itself to be more careful and not gloss over anything).

i'm looking forward to reading the explanations tomorrow, as there were some tricky ones that i more just eliminated all the wrong answers than had one answer that felt "right" so hopefully the explanation can clear that up (and also why i missed those early ones). all in all though i'm thrilled with my performance and am looking forward (sorta) to tackling superprep b on saturday.

[Strange]

Looks like my days of bombing LG sections are not even close to over.

Got absolutely worked by PT14 LG. Breezed through games 1 and 2 but was overwhelmed by the complexity of game 3. Skipped the game after the first 3 questions but the stress from it likely caused the huge reading error I made in game 4. Thankfully it was an experimental, but since I plan on using the other PT14 sections to form a composite, it counts for all intents and purposes.

On a break from PT25, 28 question RC was a beast. I finished the first 2 passages in 15 minutes but somehow ran out of time (the combination of P3 and P4 of PT25 could be the toughest end of a RC I've ever seen).

I'm getting killed on time. It doesn't help that I've just started using my forrealz test day timing device- I've underestimated the luxury of the digital timer on my cell phone. Glancing at the watch and not seeing the exact number of minutes and seconds you have remaining (unless you want to stare at it for an extra second or two) doesn't give you the comfort or precise evaluation of your pacing strategy that the digital timer does.

Incidentally, I drilled through PT 14 today, probably on my second or third go around. Don't get discouraged by game 3, if you've never seen it before I think it's one of the hardest games to grasp. The key inference for many of the questions is that at least one of QRS need to be in the exhibit. That helps unravel the game real nicely

[coldshoulder]

LR: -1/-1
LG: -1
RC: -3
95 (-6)
176

Best LR scores yet, thought they were a bit easier than past tests (this is my first test in the 40's). RC was really, really rough. Extremely long sections, long answer choices, 28 questions. It's normally my favorite and one of my best sections.
LG didn't seem easier than prior tests, but not harder either. Screwed up on the food trucks to office buildings game.

[Strange]

Another rough RC section This time it was PT19, and I totally ran out of time, pretty much guessed on the last 2-3 questions. Got -6 on this one.

[Eichörnchen]

My plan is to take 1 test a day, from 43 to 62, every day except fridays and saturdays all the way til the weekend before the test. So about 4-5 hours a day including review.

Ok because I am trying to figure out how to fix the trainwreck that is my LG section while still doing PTs I feel like I need to drill LG every day (for seventeen years) but I can't go on not taking PTs for much longer. Maybe I will do a PT every other day, with review and drilling in between....it doesn't help that I review PTs at a snail's pace. I don't know what my problem is there.

Make sure that your reviews are done in a way so that YOU understand why you got the question wrong and why the other choice was right. I just want to make sure that you don't get caught up in reviewing in the same day just because another person does. Take as much time as you need to understand every detail. (I do every other day (test, review, test, review, off)) It gives me time each day to relax to prevent burnouts.

Really just make sure you do what works for you

Thanks, I sometimes feel like I take way too long in my review of LR especially because I dig into each question and make sure I know why the right answer was right, why I was unsure if I was, and if I get it wrong I write out why I took the wrong approach and why the correct choice is correct, etc. It takes forever but I don't feel comfortable going without. To each his own I suppose so I'll just try to keep it quick by eliminating distraction time and whatnot.

Got absolutely worked by PT14 LG. Breezed through games 1 and 2 but was overwhelmed by the complexity of game 3. Skipped the game after the first 3 questions but the stress from it likely caused the huge reading error I made in game 4.

and Mickey I did this game literally right before you posted! It took me FOREVER (16 mins!!) and I still got 2 wrong. It was a nasty game.

[Neidermeyer519]

Hey all! I know I havent been around that much as of late, so I hope everything is coming along well for everyone. I haven't really done much lately, mostly because I know I was burning out and needed a bit of a break. Just wanted to stop by and see how everyone was.

[tmon]

Wow. Legal positivism just absolutely destroyed me.

I have some reason to believe that other circumstances contributed to the horrendous score I just got but...damn. Can't make excuses for what I just got. This is really disappointing.
I'm going to bed...

[mickeyD]

Okay, so this is going to sound like the most post ever since I got a good score. But I was robbed.

PT25:
LGe: -7 (as promised)
RC: 0
LR1: -1
LR2: -4
LG: -4
Raw: -9
Scaled: 174

Yes, I'm thrilled with the score, but this score was actually ruined by rude people in the library. I have never been one to make excuses, but out of nowhere at the beginning of LR2, the people at the table next to me at the library started having a full conversation out loud. I am the type of person who literally can't even read when there are other people talking. I went -3 in the next 8 questions.

On LG at the end of game 3, the exact same thing happened, and I went 2/6 on the last game as I attempted to complete it with the same people (and 3 friends that had now joined them) talking 4 feet from me. I mis-read and mis-diagrammed 2 rules (I even got the opening global-list question wrong). In all honesty, I think I could have aced the section.

The location of my LSAT administration is not exactly a top law school, and it's in a not so great area. I'm now terrified that my score could potentially be ruined by distractions or a poor proctor. I can handle background noise/coughing/sneezing/doors opening but I've always had an issue with people talking.

All in all happy with my score, upset at the LG bombs. I know most people are gonna be like " you got a 174" but it just sucks knowing that this had the potential to be my best score ever.

[tiniestdancer7]

Wow. Legal positivism just absolutely destroyed me.

I have some reason to believe that other circumstances contributed to the horrendous score I just got but...damn. Can't make excuses for what I just got. This is really disappointing.
I'm going to bed...

There's always tomorrow! and the day after