The Official September 2014 Study Group Forum

hillz · Post by **hillz** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:04 pm

CFC1524 wrote:
Irish11 wrote:Another question for re-takers: What do people typically do/what are people allowed to do during the break? Sitting there staring at the clock makes me lose focus. Can I take a walk? Go to the back of the room and do jumping jacks? Or just sit quietly and lose focus?
We were allowed to leave the room. I went for a walk (the proctors made sure we didn't leave the particular floor we were on) and made small talk with the people in the hallway. By the time I returned to the test center I had almost forgotten I'd done 3 sections already.

Disclaimer: this could vary by test center

Disclaimer about the disclaimer: I doubt that it does

We were allowed to leave the room and even go to a different floor (because there were more bathrooms there). We just couldn't leave the building. I ate a Larabar during my break and drank some water to try and refresh.

cavalier2015 · Post by **cavalier2015** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:07 pm

the more PTs I take, the more I realize that I just don't have a natural feel for assumptions. I'm going to visit the trainer again and go over the flaws sections and see if that helps.

hillz · Post by **hillz** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:12 pm

JackelJ wrote:What materials have you been using to learn concepts? Have you tried taking untimed tests or only timed?

JackelJ wrote: I have been using Blueprint's materials, so I did one pass through all of their video lessons to see the concepts before attending their classes that are now taking place. I have found the videos to be very useful and their concepts easy and quick to learn and find the right answer. There is a lot of "homework" that Blueprint gives you which is just tons of problems grouped together based on question type and I've been going through that before they are formally assigned so I am 2/3 through learning and mastering all of the concepts. The actual classes move too slowly for me so I don't find them too beneficial because everyone asks questions that are simple so I usually just do my own thing there and use the time to study on my own while in class. I have only done timed PTs, but when I am just practicing I give myself as much time as I need per question to get the correct answer and understand why it is the correct answer.

I don't know much about Blueprint and I know everyone is different. It sounds like you're practicing a lot already, but you might also consider drilling. The Cambridge packets that are sorted by type are very helpful. I know you can sort them on your own if you don't want to shell out the cash for them. For me, drilling has been very helpful. It sounds like you understand concepts (or are getting there) and just need practice & repetition.

chimera · Post by **chimera** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:32 pm

Irish11 wrote:Another question for re-takers: What do people typically do/what are people allowed to do during the break? Sitting there staring at the clock makes me lose focus. Can I take a walk? Go to the back of the room and do jumping jacks? Or just sit quietly and lose focus?

Power pose is tcr

Took pt 48 today.
LR1: -4
LG: -1
RC: -3
LR2: -6.
165.
Time to drill more LR forever.

HRomanus · Post by **HRomanus** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:55 pm

joeisreallycool wrote:Definitely see that in the 3 PTs I've done. Completely DEAD by the end of it, and they are only 4 sections. What about drilling with the earlier PTs? More than likely I would just use them for experimental sections anyways, any experience with just drilling full sections at a time? Or would it be better to use them as experimentals.

At this point in the game, you won't need to worry about wasting PTs with drilling. Save PTs 62-72 for PTing between now and Sept 27. Do two a week. Other than that, use as many actual sections and any questions as you can when you drill - including using them in 5 and 6 section PTs. Drilling with a full section is good because it reinforces time management and stamina skills, but always blind review them so you are also reinforcing your fundamentals. In other cases, if you don't have 35 minutes drill 1-10 questions.

Here's my rough plan until Sept 27 (I work FT, including M, T, and R evenings until 8pm):
- 2 PTs per weekend (1 Saturday, 1 Sunday)
- 10 LR questions per day (from the Cambridge LR difficulty packet)
- 1 LG per weekday (from the Cambridge LR difficulty packet)
- 1 RC passage per weekday (from the Cambridge RC difficulty packet)
- 2 sections per Wednesday (from old PTs from Cambridge) - determined based on the sections I'm underperfoming on PTs

Blockofcheese · Post by **Blockofcheese** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:59 pm

rwe13 wrote:Straight up dreaming about logic games almost every night. My mind will make up some convoluted game that I'll be like half asleep trying to figure out before I'll finally wake up and realize that the game isn't real and doesn't make sense because it was authored by my subconscious hah.

I made an account just to reply to this. I'm so glad I'm not the only one doing this. My dreams tend to be based on LR instead of LG, but I've had 3 of them in the last few weeks lol

joeisreallycool · Post by **joeisreallycool** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:04 pm

HRomanus wrote:
joeisreallycool wrote:Definitely see that in the 3 PTs I've done. Completely DEAD by the end of it, and they are only 4 sections. What about drilling with the earlier PTs? More than likely I would just use them for experimental sections anyways, any experience with just drilling full sections at a time? Or would it be better to use them as experimentals.
At this point in the game, you won't need to worry about wasting PTs with drilling. Save PTs 62-72 for PTing between now and Sept 27. Do two a week. Other than that, use as many actual sections and any questions as you can when you drill - including using them in 5 and 6 section PTs. Drilling with a full section is good because it reinforces time management and stamina skills, but always blind review them so you are also reinforcing your fundamentals. In other cases, if you don't have 35 minutes drill 1-10 questions.

Here's my rough plan until Sept 27 (I work FT, including M, T, and R evenings until 8pm):
- 2 PTs per weekend (1 Saturday, 1 Sunday)
- 10 LR questions per day (from the Cambridge LR difficulty packet)
- 1 LG per weekday (from the Cambridge LR difficulty packet)
- 1 RC passage per weekday (from the Cambridge RC difficulty packet)
- 2 sections per Wednesday (from old PTs from Cambridge) - determined based on the sections I'm underperfoming on PTs

Thank you so much. I needed a set guide like this, I've been running around like a chicken without a head jumping around all over the place.

HRomanus · Post by **HRomanus** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:10 pm

joeisreallycool wrote:Thank you so much. I needed a set guide like this, I've been running around like a chicken without a head jumping around all over the place.

My plan is really only applicable to me at this point. Take an untimed, 4-section PT ASAP so you can figure out where your studying has gotten you and where you need to focus more attention and time. The only constant is that you need to be doing 1-2 timed PTs per week from this point forward. Other than that, find out where your weaknesses are and target your drilling using Cambridge packets.

joeisreallycool · Post by **joeisreallycool** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:19 pm

HRomanus wrote:
joeisreallycool wrote:Thank you so much. I needed a set guide like this, I've been running around like a chicken without a head jumping around all over the place.
My plan is really only applicable to me at this point. Take an untimed, 4-section PT ASAP so you can figure out where your studying has gotten you and where you need to focus more attention and time. The only constant is that you need to be doing 1-2 timed PTs per week from this point forward. Other than that, find out where your weaknesses are and target your drilling using Cambridge packets.

It was just nice to see someone elses outline of how they plan to attack this. I know I definitely need to tweak what you've laid out, but it is still a starting point on how to move forward.

HRomanus · Post by **HRomanus** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:26 pm

joeisreallycool wrote:It was just nice to see someone elses outline of how they plan to attack this. I know I definitely need to tweak what you've laid out, but it is still a starting point on how to move forward.

I'm glad I could help! TLS has been incredibly helpful to me. I didn't even know about Cambridge or Manhattan before coming here.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:53 pm

Post removed.

Learn_Live_Hope · Post by **Learn_Live_Hope** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:57 pm

mornincounselor wrote:It's amazing what a weekend of pure LG drilling can do for you. I'm hitting these upper-level grouping games out of the park now. Just knocked off the CD game in 8 minutes flat. Starting to get really confident in my non-rare games. Going to spend some extra time towards the end of my prep on those games, but after I run through these packets one more time each I'm going right into RC where I'm still pretty fragile.

How much drilling did you end up doing?

Jon McCarty · Post by **Jon McCarty** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:19 pm

mornincounselor wrote:It's amazing what a weekend of pure LG drilling can do for you. I'm hitting these upper-level grouping games out of the park now. Just knocked off the CD game in 8 minutes flat. Starting to get really confident in my non-rare games. Going to spend some extra time towards the end of my prep on those games, but after I run through these packets one more time each I'm going right into RC where I'm still pretty fragile.

That's awesome, keep up the good work!!

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:19 pm

Post removed.

cavalier2015 · Post by **cavalier2015** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:40 pm

If I've got PTs 53-72 to burn through until sep 27th, how many PTs on average should I take per week? I know I suck on LR so I want to devote most of my time on assumption question drilling. Any help would be great.

My lg has been consistently -1/0 and rc been -2 under timed conditions so i really need to focus on LR

Learn_Live_Hope · Post by **Learn_Live_Hope** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:47 pm

cavalier2015 wrote:If I've got PTs 53-72 to burn through until sep 27th, how many PTs on average should I take per week? I know I suck on LR so I want to devote most of my time on assumption question drilling. Any help would be great.

My lg has been consistently -1/0 and rc been -2 under timed conditions so i really need to focus on LR

The general consensus is no more than 4…2-3 would be ideal.

Jon McCarty · Post by **Jon McCarty** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:51 pm

cavalier2015 wrote:If I've got PTs 53-72 to burn through until sep 27th, how many PTs on average should I take per week? I know I suck on LR so I want to devote most of my time on assumption question drilling. Any help would be great.

My lg has been consistently -1/0 and rc been -2 under timed conditions so i really need to focus on LR

I would start with heavy drilling and light PTs and gradually switch to light drilling and heavy PTs.

Here's an example PT schedule broken down by week for the 20 PTs you have left (I would do the earliest PTs first and work my way to the more recent ones):

8/11-8/16: 1 PT
8/17-8/23: 2 PTs
8/24-8/30: 2 PTs
8/31-9/6: 3 PTs
9/7-9/13: 4 PTs
9/14-9/20: 4 PTs
9/21-9/24: 4 PTs

Most people like to rest the day or two before the exam so take that time into account.

*PT 72 contained a rare game that threw a lot of people off so you may want to move that up in the order so that you have some time to deconstruct the game and so that the last PT you take doesn't rattle you.

ilikebaseball · Post by **ilikebaseball** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:59 pm

PT47
LR-1
RC-3
LR-5
LG-0
170

I seem to be peaking a little bit. Having trouble getting 171 or higher

sashafierce · Post by **sashafierce** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:19 pm

Hi all, so I analysed my LR breakdown for my last five PTs and my strongest areas are: Flaw 91%, NA 88%, RRE 89%, Method of reasoning 89%, PSA 89%, Strengthen 86% and my worst QTs are MBT 69%, MSS 76%, Weaken 69%, PF 67% ans AP 71%. I have since tweaked my approach to AP so I should see an increase in my next PT. I spent most of today tweaking and testing my approach to MSS questions. Can someone comment on my approach

1. DO NOT TRY TO PREDICT ANSWER CHOICES FOCUS YOUR ENERGY ON:
a. Understanding the stimulus
b. Eliminating wrong answer choices

When evaluating answer choices look out for:
 Degree shift- for example moving from all to most incorrectly
 Opposite meaning-An answer that is the complete opposite of the stated facts in the stimulus
 Reverse answer/logic- these have similar wording as the stimulus but the order is reversed
 New information- be weary of these answers before eliminating these questions be sure that 1. The answer is not a combination of two or more statements 2. The answer does not fall within the scope of a term or concept
 Exaggerated answers- board overstatements based on facts from the stimulus
 Unjustified connections- answer choices that combine parts of the argument to make faulty inference
 Answer choices that make unsupported comparison

Eliminate obviously wrong answer choices based on extreme language. Look out for words such as:

• Best
• Better
• Most effective
• Only
• Most
• Most efficient
• More easily
• Greater
• All
• The only way
• The best way
• Generally (means most)
• Majority (means most)
• Typically (means most)
• Most often
• No other
• More likely (usually introduces some irrelevant comparison)
• No more likely (usually introduces some irrelevant comparison)

2. IF down to two answer choices use the “Therefore Test”. Re read stimulus and add Therefore “Answer Choice” this should help you see which answer choice is “most supported” by the facts in the stimulus.

PS: this may seem really familiar because its a combination of thing I noticed while drilling (i.e. extreme language list), MLSAT, The Trainer, 7sage course and random post on TLS.

lsatkillah · Post by **lsatkillah** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:29 pm

lsatkillah · Post by **lsatkillah** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:31 pm

@sashafierce, noted. For someone who hasn't been through the gamut of prep materials, thanks!

Blockofcheese · Post by **Blockofcheese** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:53 pm

sashafierce wrote:Hi all, so I analysed my LR breakdown for my last five PTs and my strongest areas are: Flaw 91%, NA 88%, RRE 89%, Method of reasoning 89%, PSA 89%, Strengthen 86% and my worst QTs are MBT 69%, MSS 76%, Weaken 69%, PF 67% ans AP 71%. I have since tweaked my approach to AP so I should see an increase in my next PT. I spent most of today tweaking and testing my approach to MSS questions. Can someone comment on my approach

1. DO NOT TRY TO PREDICT ANSWER CHOICES FOCUS YOUR ENERGY ON:
a. Understanding the stimulus
b. Eliminating wrong answer choices

When evaluating answer choices look out for:
 Degree shift- for example moving from all to most incorrectly
 Opposite meaning-An answer that is the complete opposite of the stated facts in the stimulus
 Reverse answer/logic- these have similar wording as the stimulus but the order is reversed
 New information- be weary of these answers before eliminating these questions be sure that 1. The answer is not a combination of two or more statements 2. The answer does not fall within the scope of a term or concept
 Exaggerated answers- board overstatements based on facts from the stimulus
 Unjustified connections- answer choices that combine parts of the argument to make faulty inference
 Answer choices that make unsupported comparison

Eliminate obviously wrong answer choices based on extreme language. Look out for words such as:

• Best
• Better
• Most effective
• Only
• Most
• Most efficient
• More easily
• Greater
• All
• The only way
• The best way
• Generally (means most)
• Majority (means most)
• Typically (means most)
• Most often
• No other
• More likely (usually introduces some irrelevant comparison)
• No more likely (usually introduces some irrelevant comparison)

2. IF down to two answer choices use the “Therefore Test”. Re read stimulus and add Therefore “Answer Choice” this should help you see which answer choice is “most supported” by the facts in the stimulus.

PS: this may seem really familiar because its a combination of thing I noticed while drilling (i.e. extreme language list), MLSAT, The Trainer, 7sage course and random post on TLS.

Are you just looking to increase your score, or is timing an issue?

I know for me, doing answer predictions has improved my score a decent amount. There is only 1 right answer, so if you get down to 2 you're overlooking something. But that's what works for me. I've found that you really have to mash up all the tips and figure out which ones work for you.

sashafierce · Post by **sashafierce** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:06 pm

Blockofcheese wrote:Are you just looking to increase your score, or is timing an issue?

I know for me, doing answer predictions has improved my score a decent amount. There is only 1 right answer, so if you get down to 2 you're overlooking something. But that's what works for me. I've found that you really have to mash up all the tips and figure out which ones work for you.

Timing is a major issue for me but for MSS questions I have found that trying to predict the correct answer is not usually a useful step because there is so much wiggle room for e.g. answer choices that combine facts in the stimulus or repeat one fact. For MBT (especially those based on conditional logic) I predict the correct answer, pick it and move on but for MSS I try to focus more on understanding the stimulus.

lsatkillah wrote:@sashafierce, noted. For someone who hasn't been through the gamut of prep materials, thanks!

lol, I have read alot of the prep books and tried each individually, I recently put down all of the books and decided to focus on finding a strategy that works best for me

cavalier2015 · Post by **cavalier2015** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:48 pm

really dumb question but for strengthen questions: when i find a flaw, i want an AC that addresses this and fixes it or something that just points it out? drawing a blank right now

Jon McCarty · Post by **Jon McCarty** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:56 pm

cavalier2015 wrote:really dumb question but for strengthen questions: when i find a flaw, i want an AC that addresses this and fixes it or something that just points it out? drawing a blank right now

You'll want the AC that addresses it and fixes it (at least fixes it to some extent). To just point it out would be the AC on more of a flaw question.