The Official June 2016 Study Group Forum

[ac8876a]

anybody got tips on how to deal with timing for LR & RC?

[R. Jeeves]

Kind of off topic but what's everyone doing this summer?

Eurotrip!

Also moving to cambridge - like a 10 min walk from HLS (what if I didnt have to move again before starting law school...wouldnt that be nice )

[R. Jeeves]

Kind of off topic but what's everyone doing this summer?

Eurotrip!

Also moving to cambridge - like a 10 min walk from HLS (what if I didnt have to move again before starting law school...wouldnt that be nice )

What about you?

[Mikey]

Kind of off topic but what's everyone doing this summer?

Eurotrip!

Also moving to cambridge - like a 10 min walk from HLS (what if I didnt have to move again before starting law school...wouldnt that be nice )

What about you?

Haha that would be great! Sounds like you're going to have a fun time, I hope you do!
Me? I'm still in undergrad so I may do an internship for credit like I did last summer. Most likely with a Judge again, I really enjoyed it last year even though I did a lot of clerical work :p haha

[proteinshake]

Kind of off topic but what's everyone doing this summer?

Eurotrip!

Also moving to cambridge - like a 10 min walk from HLS (what if I didnt have to move again before starting law school...wouldnt that be nice )

What about you?

random, but being a vegetarian in Europe is hell.

[ayylmao]

Kind of off topic but what's everyone doing this summer?

Wall St. internship that starts on June 6. The HR person wasn't happy when I asked to switch my start date lol.

[abcdefg1234567]

Can anyone tell me whether the June lsat's historically less forgiving curve is a reflection of it actually being more difficult than the others or is it because more well-prepared test takers sit for the exam and raise the curve? I've noticed that my average raw score would put me in a better position to take in December rather than June and am having second thoughts about it.

[Mikey]

Kind of off topic but what's everyone doing this summer?

Wall St. internship that starts on June 6. The HR person wasn't happy when I asked to switch my start date lol.

That's pretty boss, good luck!

[R. Jeeves]

Can anyone tell me whether the June lsat's historically less forgiving curve is a reflection of it actually being more difficult than the others or is it because more well-prepared test takers sit for the exam and raise the curve? I've noticed that my average raw score would put me in a better position to take in December rather than June and am having second thoughts about it.

Does June actually have a less forgiving curve?

If it does actually have a less forgiving curve, wouldn't that be reflective of it being a less - rather than more - difficult test?

Also, any LSAT, regardless of the month in which it is administered, should be comparable to all other LSATs taken within a couple years of it in order to ensure that it's a fair criteria for admission. The "curves" are actually pre-equated scoring formulas that are supposed ensure that all recent LSATs can in fact be fairly compared. I don't see why LSAC would adjust the "curve" to make it harder for June takers in anticipation of the fact that they tend to be better prepared. Why would LSAC want the students who prep better to not score better? It wouldn't really matter if more people score in higher percentiles in June because LSAC is not trying to maintain a consistent score distribution from month to month; rather they try make tests that uniformly reflect ability over the course of several years.

eta: to be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong. I would just find it strange if it turns out to be the case that it is actually more difficult to obtain a given LSAT score in June than in any other month.

[somewhatferal]

Took a one week break from PT'ing.

PT 66, 180 (-0 LR, -0 LG, -1 RC)

Second guessed myself on that one missed question and changed it from the right answer to a wrong one. This is +4 raw score better than any other test I have done so far. Feeling good.

[abcdefg1234567]

Can anyone tell me whether the June lsat's historically less forgiving curve is a reflection of it actually being more difficult than the others or is it because more well-prepared test takers sit for the exam and raise the curve? I've noticed that my average raw score would put me in a better position to take in December rather than June and am having second thoughts about it.

Does June actually have a less forgiving curve?

If it does actually have a less forgiving curve, wouldn't that be reflective of it being a less - rather than more - difficult test?

Also, any LSAT, regardless of the month in which it is administered, should be comparable to all other LSATs taken within a couple years of it in order to ensure that it's a fair criteria for admission. The "curves" are actually pre-equated scoring formulas that are supposed ensure that all recent LSATs can in fact be fairly compared. I don't see why LSAC would adjust the "curve" to make it harder for June takers in anticipation of the fact that they tend to be better prepared. Why would LSAC want the students who prep better to not score better? It wouldn't really matter if more people score in higher percentiles in June because LSAC is not trying to maintain a consistent score distribution from month to month; rather they try make tests that uniformly reflect ability over the course of several years.

eta: to be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong. I would just find it strange if it turns out to be the case that it is actually more difficult to obtain a given LSAT score in June than in any other month.

According to lsatblog, over the last eight years for a score of 170 June required -10, Sep/Oct -10.25 and Dec -11.375

What you're saying is, hypothetically of only 11 people took the test and one each scored -10, -9 , -8,-7, -6, -5, -4, -3 -2 -1, -0 they would expect to receive a concerted score of 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179 and 180 respectively. But since bell curves by they're very nature evenly distribute propotiinatey according to a formula this would not be the case. Instead, 5 would score below 150, one would receive 150, and the other 5 would score above.

The only possible explanations I see for the trend are:

A higher proportion of well-prepared test takers than average.

Or more number of high difficultly questions than average.

The reason I ask is because on average my June PT raw scores are no higher than December PT's, which should put me at an advantage in December.


PS I realize this is all bull shit and in reality doesn't matter. But I just wanted to see what people thought...

[R. Jeeves]

According to lsatblog, over the last eight years for a score of 170 June required -10, Sep/Oct -10.25 and Dec -11.375

Ok so the tighter curve thing is supported by the data. Thanks for this.

What you're saying is, hypothetically of only 11 people took the test and one each scored -10, -9 , -8,-7, -6, -5, -4, -3 -2 -1, -0 they would expect to receive a concerted score of 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179 and 180 respectively. But since bell curves by they're very nature evenly distribute propotiinatey according to a formula this would not be the case. Instead, 5 would score below 150, one would receive 150, and the other 5 would score above

The reason I say this is because the curve is not determined after the test is taken. LSAC sets the curve before the test is taken. So it is theoretically possible for literally everyone who takes the upcoming LSAT to score above a 170.

The only possible explanations I see for the trend are:

A higher proportion of well-prepared test takers than average.

Or more number of high difficultly questions than average.

Wait I'm still confused re: possibilty #2. If they made it so that you needed a higher raw score to get the same scaled score, doesn't that mean the questions, on average, are easier?

The reason I ask is because on average my June PT raw scores are no higher than December PT's, which should put me at an advantage in December.

PS I realize this is all bull shit and in reality doesn't matter. But I just wanted to see what people thought...

haha no its def a valid question given your PT trends.

[Mikey]

Took a one week break from PT'ing.

PT 66, 180 (-0 LR, -0 LG, -1 RC)

Second guessed myself on that one missed question and changed it from the right answer to a wrong one. This is +4 raw score better than any other test I have done so far. Feeling good.

Holy crap, teach me.

[abcdefg1234567]

Wait I'm still confused re: possibilty #2. If they made it so that you needed a higher raw score to get the same scaled score, doesn't that mean the questions, on average, are easier?
.

I see your point, I guess the second possibility in my mind should have been that there are LESS high difficulty questions. Ma bad.

But I'm curious how you know LSAC determines the curve before they administer the exam?

[abcdefg1234567]

Took a one week break from PT'ing.

PT 66, 180 (-0 LR, -0 LG, -1 RC)

Second guessed myself on that one missed question and changed it from the right answer to a wrong one. This is +4 raw score better than any other test I have done so far. Feeling good.

Your guts I hate.

but seriously...NICE!!

[abcdefg1234567]

Feeling really good with PT 45

172/175BR
LR -3
RC -3
LG -0
LR -5

Very happy with the improvements in LR and RC since joining this thread. A lot of excellent advice from high scorers. Im finally understanding the importance of paraphrasing!! Not only has it helped increase speed but (more importantly) accuracy. With RC Passage 2, I had NO IDEA what was going on, but because I understood the structure of the argument, I managed to get all but 1 question. That is very motivating.

[Mikey]

.

[ayylmao]

Feeling really good with PT 45

172/175BR
LR -3
RC -3
LG -0
LR -5

Very happy with the improvements in LR and RC since joining this thread. A lot of excellent advice from high scorers. Im finally understanding the importance of paraphrasing!! Not only has it helped increase speed but (more importantly) accuracy. With RC Passage 2, I had NO IDEA what was going on, but because I understood the structure of the argument, I managed to get all but 1 question. That is very motivating.

Nice! I did this one today as well! I felt like LG was incredibly easy, but I felt that RC (specifically passage 4) was a pain in my ass haha.

Just out of curiosity, why are you guys taking PTs from the 40s? Have you already burned the 50s and/or 60s and/or 70s? Not saying your methods are wrong, I'm just wondering why you're taking older and pre-comparative reading tests at this stage.

[abcdefg1234567]

Feeling really good with PT 45

172/175BR
LR -3
RC -3
LG -0
LR -5

Very happy with the improvements in LR and RC since joining this thread. A lot of excellent advice from high scorers. Im finally understanding the importance of paraphrasing!! Not only has it helped increase speed but (more importantly) accuracy. With RC Passage 2, I had NO IDEA what was going on, but because I understood the structure of the argument, I managed to get all but 1 question. That is very motivating.

Nice! I did this one today as well! I felt like LG was incredibly easy, but I felt that RC (specifically passage 4) was a pain in my ass haha.

Just out of curiosity, why are you guys taking PTs from the 40s? Have you already burned the 50s and/or 60s and/or 70s? Not saying your methods are wrong, I'm just wondering why you're taking older and pre-comparative reading tests at this stage.

I'm saving 63+ for this month MWF. I'm planning on using the rest of 46-50 as 5th sections and drills.

[ayylmao]

Feeling really good with PT 45

172/175BR
LR -3
RC -3
LG -0
LR -5

Very happy with the improvements in LR and RC since joining this thread. A lot of excellent advice from high scorers. Im finally understanding the importance of paraphrasing!! Not only has it helped increase speed but (more importantly) accuracy. With RC Passage 2, I had NO IDEA what was going on, but because I understood the structure of the argument, I managed to get all but 1 question. That is very motivating.

Nice! I did this one today as well! I felt like LG was incredibly easy, but I felt that RC (specifically passage 4) was a pain in my ass haha.

Just out of curiosity, why are you guys taking PTs from the 40s? Have you already burned the 50s and/or 60s and/or 70s? Not saying your methods are wrong, I'm just wondering why you're taking older and pre-comparative reading tests at this stage.

I'm saving 63+ for this month MWF. I'm planning on using the rest of 46-50 as 5th sections and drills.

Fair enough. Good for you for being able to take 3 PTs/week, do full BR, and not burn out. I think 2 is healthy for me over an extended period of time.

[ponderingmeerkat]

PT 61: 168
BR: 177

I'm actually not too upset with this one. Went -4 RC, -4 LG, -6/-0 LR. A simple misreading error on a single logic game setup propagated itself across four questions and was solely responsible for all my misses on LG. I mean, it's frustrating to miss a 170 by that small of a margin, but at least it's not a systemic shortcoming demanding technique overhaul. Hoping this means 170+ is within reach in the next week or so.

[YupSports]

Looks like I'm switching to the September administration - I'll still check in with everyone here periodically.

Good Luck!

[R. Jeeves]

Wait I'm still confused re: possibilty #2. If they made it so that you needed a higher raw score to get the same scaled score, doesn't that mean the questions, on average, are easier?
.

I see your point, I guess the second possibility in my mind should have been that there are LESS high difficulty questions. Ma bad.

But I'm curious how you know LSAC determines the curve before they administer the exam?

This goes over how LSAT scaled scores are determined: http://abovethelaw.com/career-files/how ... at-scored/

I guess its not strictly true that the curve is determined before you take the test, but it is determined before the scoring is done (but this amounts to the same thing I was saying). The official process is outlined by LSAC here: http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/policies/ch ... -questions

[abcdefg1234567]

First 5 section PT. I'm not terribly disappointed, even though I made some mindless decisions in the last section.

165/174 BR
LR -4/-2
LG -0/-0
LR -6/-2
RC -8/-2

Will be drilling SA and PF today as well as critically read a few articles from The American Interest.

[audaz]

Question about 7 Sage Logic Games video explanations target times.

I apologize if this question has already been asked I can't remember and 84 pages is a lot to scroll through. But is there a consensus on the 7 sage logic games target times being accurate. I seem to be consistently significantly lower than their estimates (example I was just drilling and did a game they suggested 11 minutes for I did under 8 and a game they suggested 7 minutes for I did under 5 – and this is the norm for me).

Logic games are a pretty strong subject for me so I'm just trying to figure out if I'm faster than their estimates because of skill or because there is something funky with their timing and to take it with a grain of salt.

(oh and the times I'm reporting are for games in which I score perfectly.. idk if that helps or not)