June 2011 Study Group Forum

[mickeyD]

The mannequins game was a biatch on PT29 - Q10 and Q12 were extreme time suckers and the conventional 'elimination' approach, while effective, just ate way too much time up. Are there any key deductions that made these two questions jump out at anyone? Or is this a plug and chug

I feel like the key inference for the game is knowing what mannequin 2 can wear. It can't have all three colors, so it's color combo must be Navy/Red or Navy/Yellow. The jacket and hat can't be the same color, so one has to be Navy and one must be the other color (R/Y). That leaves you with two templates for mannequin 2.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
Mannequin 2 Temp A: N (R/Y) N
Mannequin 2 Temp B: N N (R/Y)

So for question 10, there are only two possibilities. Mannequin 2 NRN or NNR. I'm just gonna leave out the red tie.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
1: R N R
2: N R N
or
1: R R N/Y
2: N N R

Reasoning: All 4 red articles of clothing must be used. Since mannequin 2 automatically has a navy skirt, you know that the red skirt has to be on mannequin 1. From there, due to the Jacket/Hat rule, one mannequin has to have the red hat, and the other has to have the red jacket.

Same thing applies to question 12. Mannequin 2 NNY or NYN.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
1: Y Y R
2: N N Y
or
1: Y R Y
2: N Y N

[99.9luft]

The mannequins game was a biatch on PT29 - Q10 and Q12 were extreme time suckers and the conventional 'elimination' approach, while effective, just ate way too much time up. Are there any key deductions that made these two questions jump out at anyone? Or is this a plug and chug

I feel like the key inference for the game is knowing what mannequin 2 can wear. It can't have all three colors, so it's color combo must be Navy/Red or Navy/Yellow. The jacket and hat can't be the same color, so one has to be Navy and one must be the other color (R/Y). That leaves you with two templates for mannequin 2.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
Mannequin 2 Temp A: N (R/Y) N
Mannequin 2 Temp B: N N (R/Y)

So for question 10, there are only two possibilities. Mannequin 2 NRN or NNR. I'm just gonna leave out the red tie.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
1: R N R
2: N R N
or
1: R R N/Y
2: N N R

Reasoning: All 4 red articles of clothing must be used. Since mannequin 2 automatically has a navy skirt, you know that the red skirt has to be on mannequin 1. From there, due to the Jacket/Hat rule, one mannequin has to have the red hat, and the other has to have the red jacket.

Same thing applies to question 12. Mannequin 2 NNY or NYN.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
1: Y Y R
2: N N Y
or
1: Y R Y
2: N Y N

I love this game.

[chrisnyoder]

The mannequins game was a biatch on PT29 - Q10 and Q12 were extreme time suckers and the conventional 'elimination' approach, while effective, just ate way too much time up. Are there any key deductions that made these two questions jump out at anyone? Or is this a plug and chug

I feel like the key inference for the game is knowing what mannequin 2 can wear. It can't have all three colors, so it's color combo must be Navy/Red or Navy/Yellow. The jacket and hat can't be the same color, so one has to be Navy and one must be the other color (R/Y). That leaves you with two templates for mannequin 2.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
Mannequin 2 Temp A: N (R/Y) N
Mannequin 2 Temp B: N N (R/Y)

So for question 10, there are only two possibilities. Mannequin 2 NRN or NNR. I'm just gonna leave out the red tie.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
1: R N R
2: N R N
or
1: R R N/Y
2: N N R

Reasoning: All 4 red articles of clothing must be used. Since mannequin 2 automatically has a navy skirt, you know that the red skirt has to be on mannequin 1. From there, due to the Jacket/Hat rule, one mannequin has to have the red hat, and the other has to have the red jacket.

Same thing applies to question 12. Mannequin 2 NNY or NYN.

(Skirt, Jacket, Hat)
1: Y Y R
2: N N Y
or
1: Y R Y
2: N Y N

I love this game.

This game is tough. Did it twice already both in >10 min.

PT 52
LR -4
LG - 3
LR -4
RC -2

Raw -13
Scaled - 167

My logical reasoning seems to have take a dip these last practice tests. I was going ~ -2 before. Are the LR on recent PTs harder?

Also, has anybody done the games for this test? They seemed to be more difficult. The field trip to museum game for example did not seem to have an set ups available. Is this just a case a testing out each AC until you find the right one?

[jim-green]

Has anyone done the PT47 games yet, and do you have any insights on what the diagram should be for the last game: Maggie's Deli? Any good inferences?

[tmon]

Has anyone done the PT47 games yet, and do you have any insights on what the diagram should be for the last game: Maggie's Deli? Any good inferences?

Just pulled it out, as I did this a few weeks ago and went -1 on the section (from the Crescentville game)...but I'm not seeing too much that jumps out at me for big deductions. It was key to separate the supervisors from K, O, and S on the page....and some of the rules were a little tricky to write for me. But I had at least 10 minutes, possibly more because the other games went by easily enough.

I set up my diagram with the 5 days of the week and two stacked lines, the top being only for supervisors, the bottom with a "?" so I knew it could be either. Of the rules, I had "K-->someone's 1st" and "1st P > 1st S" and while the way I did those rules wasn't particularly...graceful(?) it got the job done. Sorry I can't offer a big inference, but I'm not seeing one I made either. Then again, I attribute my success in LG to consistently being able to do two of the games in 5-6 minutes tops, so I can take lots of time on the more involved games later.

Any specific questions that were an issue, or did the timing of it drag you down?

[tmon]

Did I really just use the word "graceful" in describing a LG approach?

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

At SO's for the weekend. Can't. Study. Ahhhhh.

[Eichörnchen]

At SO's for the weekend. Can't. Study. Ahhhhh.

Haha why not? Say, "Dear I will be in the next room learning some logic"

[soj]

I wish I had an SO. Would be a great source of both comfort and annoyance.

[Eichörnchen]

Haha that is true on both counts - I'm sitting here feeling soo guilty cause today is my bf's 1st race in the "expert" level cycling series and I'm the worst girlfriend ever cause I said I probably should study he agreed and said he'd prefer I study but I still feel guilty

[chrisnyoder]

Maybe it's a bit too early to ask this, but when is a good "cut off" date? (not trying to scare anyone or anything)

My internship is asking me if I can start on the 3rd of June, fully aware that I'll need the afternoon of the 7th off (I live in Paris so I get a different test a day later). Is it worth fighting with them to push it back another few days?

[tmon]

I wish I had an SO. Would be a great source of both comfort and annoyance.

Yep. that's about right. Mine is very understanding, and we also live together. I find that we have to have the "I know this sucks for you, and I feel really bad about it, but it's only a few months and I promise it's going to pay off" talk. She's a great de-stressor though, so that's a plus.

Maybe it's a bit too early to ask this, but when is a good "cut off" date? (not trying to scare anyone or anything)

My internship is asking me if I can start on the 3rd of June, fully aware that I'll need the afternoon of the 7th off (I live in Paris so I get a different test a day later). Is it worth fighting with them to push it back another few days?

It probably depends on your comfort level with that situation I'd bet. I'm taking the day and the day before the test off, but if I were in your spot, I'd try pretty hard to start later unless it's going to seriously impact your experience at the internship. On the other hand, if your internship is pretty sweet it could be a good way to get your mind off the test and refresh, actually. At the end of the day, I always think of the fact that the test is going to make a difference in so many ways in the future that it basically requires sacrifices in the short term to see its payoffs later on.

[coldshoulder]

Going through all the kaplan mastery assumption LR questions. Holy balls the 4star questions are rough...anyone else have this problem?

[mickeyD]

Warmup for my PT today just went about as bad as it can go. PT26 LG worked me, huge mis-diagram cost me 2 questions on game 1. Also fell apart on game 3 as usual by misinterpreting a key rule. Thankfully I was able to stay calm, skip and quickly finish game 4, then come back to game 3 and rally to get only a -1 on the game, giving me -3 for the section.

Spent all week drilling:

LG
PT20: -0 (3:00 left)
PT21: -1 (7:35 left)
PT22: -1 (0:00 left)
PT23: -0 (1:30 left)

LR
Strengthen/Necessary and Sufficient Assumptions
87/91

Hopefully it pays off this afternoon when I take PT47. I'm gonna do some LR warmup and then another LG section (rebuild confidence) and then take this thing on. Hoping for -0 RC and -0/1 LG.

[Eichörnchen]

Warmup for my PT today just went about as bad as it can go. PT26 LG worked me, huge mis-diagram cost me 2 questions on game 1. Also fell apart on game 3 as usual by misinterpreting a key rule. Thankfully I was able to stay calm, skip and quickly finish game 4, then come back to game 3 and rally to get only a -1 on the game, giving me -3 for the section.

Spent all week drilling:

LG
PT20: -0 (3:00 left)
PT21: -1 (7:35 left)
PT22: -1 (0:00 left)
PT23: -0 (1:30 left)

LR
Strengthen/Necessary and Sufficient Assumptions
87/91

Hopefully it pays off this afternoon when I take PT47. I'm gonna do some LR warmup and then another LG section (rebuild confidence) and then take this thing on. Hoping for -0 RC and -0/1 LG.

wow! Nice work. How long did you drill before you started to get consistant results like this?

[soj]

Maybe it's a bit too early to ask this, but when is a good "cut off" date? (not trying to scare anyone or anything)

My internship is asking me if I can start on the 3rd of June, fully aware that I'll need the afternoon of the 7th off (I live in Paris so I get a different test a day later). Is it worth fighting with them to push it back another few days?

It probably depends on your comfort level with that situation I'd bet. I'm taking the day and the day before the test off, but if I were in your spot, I'd try pretty hard to start later unless it's going to seriously impact your experience at the internship. On the other hand, if your internship is pretty sweet it could be a good way to get your mind off the test and refresh, actually. At the end of the day, I always think of the fact that the test is going to make a difference in so many ways in the future that it basically requires sacrifices in the short term to see its payoffs later on.

My thoughts exactly. I would normally recommend trying to push back the start date because the LSAT is so important, but it's possible that focusing on work will actually help you refresh and not psych out.

@mickeyD: go for it! personally, i think you're going to break your own record score. all that practice is making you really consistent.

@eich: don't feel bad about it. he knows you're a supportive girlfriend.

[Eichörnchen]

Thanks soj It sucks, but you gotta do what you gotta do. It feels like all I've done the past few months was study. Wish I would see some results from all that!

[jim-green]

Has anyone done the PT47 games yet, and do you have any insights on what the diagram should be for the last game: Maggie's Deli?

I set up my diagram with the 5 days of the week and two stacked lines, the top being only for supervisors, the bottom with a "?" so I knew it could be either. Of the rules, I had "K-->someone's 1st" and "1st P > 1st S" and while the way I did those rules wasn't particularly...graceful(?) it got the job done. Any specific questions that were an issue, or did the timing of it drag you down?

Thanks a lot, tmon! Your rules are very helpful and I am redoing it using your rules. The question I had trouble with was #20, and I tried making 5 hypos. The correct ans is B. I chose D. Did you make hypos for #20 or were you able to zero in on the right ans straightaway?

[jim-green]

Anyone done the PT48 S4 #6 LR most supported question yet? I chose C (no longer have an advantage), and still cannot comprehend why it is incorrect. I can understand why A (reduce costs) is correct, but not why C is wrong. Any ideas?

[tmon]

Has anyone done the PT47 games yet, and do you have any insights on what the diagram should be for the last game: Maggie's Deli?

I set up my diagram with the 5 days of the week and two stacked lines, the top being only for supervisors, the bottom with a "?" so I knew it could be either. Of the rules, I had "K-->someone's 1st" and "1st P > 1st S" and while the way I did those rules wasn't particularly...graceful(?) it got the job done. Any specific questions that were an issue, or did the timing of it drag you down?

Thanks a lot, tmon! Your rules are very helpful and I am redoing it using your rules. The question I had trouble with was #20, and I tried making 5 hypos. The correct ans is B. I chose D. Did you make hypos for #20 or were you able to zero in on the right ans straightaway?

Yeah, I got through the game with surprisingly few hypos...the only one I actually wrote a whole new diagram fro was 19. Might've just been that I could visualize it well enough. The way I approached 20 probably went like this:

Stem doesn't give info, so don't know if I'll need a diagram, move on and read the answer choices, see if anything jumps out to me.

Nothing with A seemed to be a problem at first glance.

Looked at B...remembered that K had to be with a person who hadn't been used, and also realized that the first P had to be before the first S.


If you have had any problems diagramming the two rules I mentioned before, this is exactly where it could potentially get you. It's the combination of those two that make this answer choice impossible. Also, I would note that if you can maintain an ongoing understanding of which variables have major restrictive rules once you proceed through the questions, that's going to help you quite a bit. I view the rules that specifically restrict K and P/S as pretty major rules, and the only other rule I had written outside of my master diagram was an NN block, so I'd want to make a quick connection if I saw variables from 2 out of those 3 rules in one answer choice like that. I think that was my key to getting through this game without too much extra work.

Hope that helps. Let me know if anything's unclear....I'm not used to writing my LG thoughts out

[xjykybl]

Anyone done the PT48 S4 #6 LR most supported question yet? I chose C (no longer have an advantage), and still cannot comprehend why it is incorrect. I can understand why A (reduce costs) is correct, but not why C is wrong. Any ideas?

C is too much of an inference to make. Plus, the stem only says "are looking for". It's not necessary that the kind of new technology has already been adopted by managers. Therefore, it's too early to say the advantage enjoyed by the skilled workers is gone.
What do you think?

I feel pressed for time for this PT 48 though. Only got scaled 169 on this, very sad.
LR1: -1
RC: -3
LG: -2
LR2: -3
Raw: -9
Scaled: 169

[jim-green]

Anyone done the PT48 S4 #6 LR most supported question yet? I chose C (no longer have an advantage), and still cannot comprehend why it is incorrect. I can understand why A (reduce costs) is correct, but not why C is wrong. Any ideas?

C is too much of an inference to make. Plus, the stem only says "are looking for". It's not necessary that the kind of new technology has already been adopted by managers. Therefore, it's too early to say the advantage enjoyed by the skilled workers is gone.
What do you think?I feel pressed for time for this PT 48 though. Only got scaled 169 on this, very sad.(

Not bad, it was a tough scale. You did better than me. Thanks for the answer help!

[99.9luft]

Anyone done the PT48 S4 #6 LR most supported question yet? I chose C (no longer have an advantage), and still cannot comprehend why it is incorrect. I can understand why A (reduce costs) is correct, but not why C is wrong. Any ideas?

C is too much of an inference to make. Plus, the stem only says "are looking for". It's not necessary that the kind of new technology has already been adopted by managers. Therefore, it's too early to say the advantage enjoyed by the skilled workers is gone.
What do you think?

I feel pressed for time for this PT 48 though. Only got scaled 169 on this, very sad.
LR1: -1
RC: -3
LG: -2
LR2: -3
Raw: -9
Scaled: 169

It's all about raw scores. -9 = great score. People got 170 last june with a -12!

[mickeyD]

PT47:

LR1: -2
RC: -3
LR2: -4
LG: -1
Raw: 90/100 (why only 100?)
Scaled: 170

Brutal order, I guess it could have been worse though. My worst RC to date.

LR is still a work in progress, I switched my answer from TCR to a particularly clever wrong answer on LR #23, and missed a parallel reasoning that I just didn't have time to really analyze. 5 of my 6 wrong ACs were from #20-#26.

Thrilled about LG. It definitely wasn't pretty (had to skip/come back to game #2 and got most of the answers by hypo-blasting the shit out of the questions) but I kept my composure on the other 3 and got my best LG score ever.

Back to the drawing board, lots of review this week. Gonna keep drilling LG hard- this test made me realize how critical it is to have that -0/1 in your pocket. Kept me 170+ despite a poor RC performance. As far as LR goes, anyone have any magic pills to make me smarter?

[jim-green]

As far as LR goes, anyone have any magic pills to make me smarter?

The MLSAT LR guide helped me. PT47 is definitely tricky.