The Official September 2017 Study Group Forum

[dj9i27]

Q: Dude, what's that H/Y on your face?

A: I got tired of having to introduce myself by saying, "Hello, my name is DJ and I went to Yale/Harvard Law School." Now, I just say, "Hello, I'm DJ" while pointing to my face.

It cuts down on me telling people how much better I am than them!

I'm really only posting, because I have slowly been changing something bit by bit over the past hour getting slowly more ridiculous hoping that someone will notice.

Nice.

Is this Pimp My Avatar: TLS Edition?

Yes.
Get on board already, loser.

I don't know how

[dj9i27]

The employment figures are all bright and sunny but I'm still worrying about another depression hitting the country round about the time when we graduate

This is why I am more worried about debt. Up swings have been followed but horrible fucking down swings in recent history. We are also 4 years overdue for a bear market, which hopefully won't be as bad as all the shit in 2008.

[brinicolec]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

Ugh yeah I feel you, Bri.

[34iplaw]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

You can always dole out some tithes to easy your conscience.

[brinicolec]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

You can always dole out some tithes to easy your conscience.

True, but it's not the same

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

You can always dole out some tithes to easy your conscience.

True, but it's not the same

A lot of PI salaries aren't that bad after a few years, imo. Obviously not near as good as BL but, compared to what a lot of people make, perfectly respectable.

[brinicolec]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

You can always dole out some tithes to easy your conscience.

True, but it's not the same

A lot of PI salaries aren't that bad after a few years, imo. Obviously not near as good as BL but, compared to what a lot of people make, perfectly respectable.

It's the first few years I'm worried about lol. I'm curious how much probono an associate is actually able to do/if it'd be a way for me to do BL work but still do some PI-focused work as well.

[proteinshake]

.

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

You can always dole out some tithes to easy your conscience.

True, but it's not the same

A lot of PI salaries aren't that bad after a few years, imo. Obviously not near as good as BL but, compared to what a lot of people make, perfectly respectable.

It's the first few years I'm worried about lol. I'm curious how much probono an associate is actually able to do/if it'd be a way for me to do BL work but still do some PI-focused work as well.

I dunno, depends where you're at in life obviously, but if you're somewhere with a reasonable CoL I think most people can be fine on a 60k salary at ~25. It's things like trying to support a family and retirement and stuff that makes me the most concerned.

I think if you set it up right you can lateral from a firm to PI, but you have to plan well in advance.

[brinicolec]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

You can always dole out some tithes to easy your conscience.

True, but it's not the same

A lot of PI salaries aren't that bad after a few years, imo. Obviously not near as good as BL but, compared to what a lot of people make, perfectly respectable.

It's the first few years I'm worried about lol. I'm curious how much probono an associate is actually able to do/if it'd be a way for me to do BL work but still do some PI-focused work as well.

I dunno, depends where you're at in life obviously, but if you're somewhere with a reasonable CoL I think most people can be fine on a 60k salary at ~25. It's things like trying to support a family and retirement and stuff that makes me the most concerned.

I think if you set it up right you can lateral from a firm to PI, but you have to plan well in advance.

Oh well. I suppose it's pointless to worry about right now. I have three years to figure it out. Lol. At least we don't have to choose a field to study during LS (a major, essentially), THAT woul suck

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

You can always dole out some tithes to easy your conscience.

True, but it's not the same

A lot of PI salaries aren't that bad after a few years, imo. Obviously not near as good as BL but, compared to what a lot of people make, perfectly respectable.

It's the first few years I'm worried about lol. I'm curious how much probono an associate is actually able to do/if it'd be a way for me to do BL work but still do some PI-focused work as well.

I dunno, depends where you're at in life obviously, but if you're somewhere with a reasonable CoL I think most people can be fine on a 60k salary at ~25. It's things like trying to support a family and retirement and stuff that makes me the most concerned.

I think if you set it up right you can lateral from a firm to PI, but you have to plan well in advance.

Oh well. I suppose it's pointless to worry about right now. I have three years to figure it out. Lol. At least we don't have to choose a field to study during LS (a major, essentially), THAT woul suck

Yeah I agree. I think there're some things we can't really know without direct experience.

[R. Jeeves]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

you don't get it.

duke deans get it:

Agreed. The best info I got came more from what they didn't say--like when I asked Duke about public interest and the deans said that all lawyers work in the public interest...

Thanks for sharing your take!

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

you don't get it.

duke deans get it:

Agreed. The best info I got came more from what they didn't say--like when I asked Duke about public interest and the deans said that all lawyers work in the public interest...

Thanks for sharing your take!

[brinicolec]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

you don't get it.

duke deans get it:

Agreed. The best info I got came more from what they didn't say--like when I asked Duke about public interest and the deans said that all lawyers work in the public interest...

Thanks for sharing your take!

Smh. dook.

[Alexandros]

.

[twiix]

ETA: It's 2017. Y'all have no excuses. I expect everyone's 'tars to be swaggier tomorrow.

ALL ABOOOOARD

[MediocreAtBest]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

[twiix]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

As much as I would like to "do the right thing" and help people, in the world we live in, I've realized that I have to put my well being above other peoples. I'll have loans to pay off, and bills to pay, so that is going to be my priority as bad as it may seem. Hail Corporate

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

As much as I would like to "do the right thing" and help people, in the world we live in, I've realized that I have to put my well being above other peoples. I'll have loans to pay off, and bills to pay, so that is going to be my priority as bad as it may seem. Hail Corporate

Same time, QoL in BL can be (and usually is) pretty terrible and soul-sucking. Twix, I know you've worked these hours so you know you can handle it, but a lot of people come in thinking it'll be nbd or that they'll be the exception, and get sucked into a career they hate that afford no work-life balance.

Also, MAB - I've gathered that lateraling out of BL into PI requires careful planning for LS day 1. PI jobs are usually difficult to come by, and people with experience and proven interest in the field will get priority.

[chargers21]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

As much as I would like to "do the right thing" and help people, in the world we live in, I've realized that I have to put my well being above other peoples. I'll have loans to pay off, and bills to pay, so that is going to be my priority as bad as it may seem. Hail Corporate

Same time, QoL in BL can be (and usually is) pretty terrible and soul-sucking. Twix, I know you've worked these hours so you know you can handle it, but a lot of people come in thinking it'll be nbd or that they'll be the exception, and get sucked into a career they hate that afford no work-life balance.

Also, MAB - I've gathered that lateraling out of BL into PI requires careful planning for LS day 1. PI jobs are usually difficult to come by, and people with experience and proven interest in the field will get priority.

I've worked the big hours and also seem to shrug at the time commitment that BL requires. All of my other career options require me to work just as much or be in poverty.

On the PI thing, doesn't that probably only apply to high competition PI? Like I feel like if I wanted to I could lateral to a DA office in my midwestern state with very little trouble

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

As much as I would like to "do the right thing" and help people, in the world we live in, I've realized that I have to put my well being above other peoples. I'll have loans to pay off, and bills to pay, so that is going to be my priority as bad as it may seem. Hail Corporate

Same time, QoL in BL can be (and usually is) pretty terrible and soul-sucking. Twix, I know you've worked these hours so you know you can handle it, but a lot of people come in thinking it'll be nbd or that they'll be the exception, and get sucked into a career they hate that afford no work-life balance.

Also, MAB - I've gathered that lateraling out of BL into PI requires careful planning for LS day 1. PI jobs are usually difficult to come by, and people with experience and proven interest in the field will get priority.

I've worked the big hours and also seem to shrug at the time commitment that BL requires. All of my other career options require me to work just as much or be in poverty.

On the PI thing, doesn't that probably only apply to high competition PI? Like I feel like if I wanted to I could lateral to a DA office in my midwestern state with very little trouble

I'm not really sure, but I don't think it's necessarily a walk in the park getting into a DA office. Would obviously require ties/connections and possibly courtroom experience which a lot of BL associates are lacking. Not sure if it's possible at all if you're in transactional. But I'm sure it's not near as hard as working for the ACLU.

[chargers21]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

As much as I would like to "do the right thing" and help people, in the world we live in, I've realized that I have to put my well being above other peoples. I'll have loans to pay off, and bills to pay, so that is going to be my priority as bad as it may seem. Hail Corporate

Same time, QoL in BL can be (and usually is) pretty terrible and soul-sucking. Twix, I know you've worked these hours so you know you can handle it, but a lot of people come in thinking it'll be nbd or that they'll be the exception, and get sucked into a career they hate that afford no work-life balance.

Also, MAB - I've gathered that lateraling out of BL into PI requires careful planning for LS day 1. PI jobs are usually difficult to come by, and people with experience and proven interest in the field will get priority.

I've worked the big hours and also seem to shrug at the time commitment that BL requires. All of my other career options require me to work just as much or be in poverty.

On the PI thing, doesn't that probably only apply to high competition PI? Like I feel like if I wanted to I could lateral to a DA office in my midwestern state with very little trouble

I'm not really sure, but I don't think it's necessarily a walk in the park getting into a DA office. Would obviously require ties/connections and possibly courtroom experience which a lot of BL associates are lacking. Not sure if it's possible at all if you're in transactional. But I'm sure it's not near as hard as working for the ACLU.

Yeah, as a transactional lawyer I will be next to useless to them. But pro bono work does allow people in BL to get some courtroom experience

[twiix]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

As much as I would like to "do the right thing" and help people, in the world we live in, I've realized that I have to put my well being above other peoples. I'll have loans to pay off, and bills to pay, so that is going to be my priority as bad as it may seem. Hail Corporate

Same time, QoL in BL can be (and usually is) pretty terrible and soul-sucking. Twix, I know you've worked these hours so you know you can handle it, but a lot of people come in thinking it'll be nbd or that they'll be the exception, and get sucked into a career they hate that afford no work-life balance.

Also, MAB - I've gathered that lateraling out of BL into PI requires careful planning for LS day 1. PI jobs are usually difficult to come by, and people with experience and proven interest in the field will get priority.

Yeah for sure. I definitely see where you're coming from. I've read the horror stores, I've read the vale. Doesn't seem any/much worse than what I worked before. With that being said, by the time I get there I will likely be having kids (or already have had a kid) so I'm sure that drastically changes things. I'll likely aim to work a few years to get my experience (and chunk my debt down - if applicable) then transfer out to a private company. I have plans of doing IP so finding in house work shouldn't be too bad.

Who knows. Maybe I'll stick it out in BL. I found fulfillment in working those ridiculous hours in some crazy neurotic way. I just hate debt. And I can't imagine trying to pay it back doing a midwest 70k/year job if you have 200k on your plate. It would consume you.

[Alexandros]

I feel like I have monthly internal conflicts about my urge to "fight the good fight" and do public interest work along with my desire to have a nice ass salary and pay off my loan debt ASAP (aka go into BL).

I kinda felt the same way. But I think after a few years of BL you can try to do something with some meaning. I tried to base my career after UG on what was in my heart and trying to do something significant and helpful for other people...I failed. So I'm gonna pick with my head this time and try to "fight the good fight" after I've paid off loans and made some money.

As much as I would like to "do the right thing" and help people, in the world we live in, I've realized that I have to put my well being above other peoples. I'll have loans to pay off, and bills to pay, so that is going to be my priority as bad as it may seem. Hail Corporate

Same time, QoL in BL can be (and usually is) pretty terrible and soul-sucking. Twix, I know you've worked these hours so you know you can handle it, but a lot of people come in thinking it'll be nbd or that they'll be the exception, and get sucked into a career they hate that afford no work-life balance.

Also, MAB - I've gathered that lateraling out of BL into PI requires careful planning for LS day 1. PI jobs are usually difficult to come by, and people with experience and proven interest in the field will get priority.

Yeah for sure. I definitely see where you're coming from. I've read the horror stores, I've read the vale. Doesn't seem any/much worse than what I worked before. With that being said, by the time I get there I will likely be having kids (or already have had a kid) so I'm sure that drastically changes things. I'll likely aim to work a few years to get my experience (and chunk my debt down - if applicable) then transfer out to a private company. I have plans of doing IP so finding in house work shouldn't be too bad.

Who knows. Maybe I'll stick it out in BL. I found fulfillment in working those ridiculous hours in some crazy neurotic way. I just hate debt. And I can't imagine trying to pay it back doing a midwest 70k/year job if you have 200k on your plate. It would consume you.

It sounds like you have a good plan going.