The Official September 2014 Study Group Forum

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:31 am

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dk2604 · Post by **dk2604** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:40 pm

Checking in. First time wasn't horrible but my average RC was too low going in. I plan to start studying in mid-May

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:46 pm

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Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:01 pm

mornincounselor wrote:Very near the end of the Trainer. I feel like I have a good grasp on what is required to get a very consistently good score in LG and LR. Not to imply I am anywhere near accomplishing it yet. Still kind of out in the cold on RC, but the majority of the remaining Trainer lessons are about RC, so I'm hoping I pick up some insights.

I can't remember; are you only using the trainer, or have you used/are you using any other guides? I am nearly done drilling cambridge's MBT section.

alexrodriguez · Post by **alexrodriguez** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:09 pm

Drill drill drill....

stop reading books and drill

I wish someone told me this... (actually they did, but I didn't listen)

I can easily ready LSAT books all day long all year long without a problem...

It's the drilling that is painstakingly difficult

use those recourses after you've drilled and can see exactly what you need to learn

here's an analogy...

steal your mothers car, drive around for a bit, learn where the lights on the car are, learn where the blinkers and windshield wipers are, learn that parallel parking is difficult.... and then go read about parallel parking...

don't just read about parallel parking having never even tried to parallel park... you need know whats important and not important... you may just waste a whole week reading about windshield wipers

Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:30 pm

louierodriguez wrote:Drill drill drill....

stop reading books and drill

I wish someone told me this... (actually they did, but I didn't listen)

I can easily ready LSAT books all day long all year long without a problem...

It's the drilling that is painstakingly difficult

use those recourses after you've drilled and can see exactly what you need to learn

here's an analogy...

steal your mothers car, drive around for a bit, learn where the lights on the car are, learn where the blinkers and windshield wipers are, learn that parallel parking is difficult.... and then go read about parallel parking...

don't just read about parallel parking having never even tried to parallel park... you need know whats important and not important... you may just waste a whole week reading about windshield wipers

I agree (obviously) that drilling is extremely important, but I have found that pure drilling with little to no understanding of the intricacies of the sections is ineffective. The most effective way that I have found to drill is by doing the initial drills in the beginning of their respective sections, studying the section, and then drilling with the Cambridge packets.

Edit: Also your analogy is a great example of a flaw type LR question: learning how to drive is not analogous to preparing for a professional school admittance exam.

Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:31 pm

Edit double post

surf · Post by **surf** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:44 am

That moment when logic games start getting a lot easier...great feeling!!!

Still have a long way to go though

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:24 am

Toby Ziegler wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:Drill drill drill....

stop reading books and drill

I wish someone told me this... (actually they did, but I didn't listen)

I can easily ready LSAT books all day long all year long without a problem...

It's the drilling that is painstakingly difficult

use those recourses after you've drilled and can see exactly what you need to learn

here's an analogy...

steal your mothers car, drive around for a bit, learn where the lights on the car are, learn where the blinkers and windshield wipers are, learn that parallel parking is difficult.... and then go read about parallel parking...

don't just read about parallel parking having never even tried to parallel park... you need know whats important and not important... you may just waste a whole week reading about windshield wipers

I agree (obviously) that drilling is extremely important, but I have found that pure drilling with little to no understanding of the intricacies of the sections is ineffective. The most effective way that I have found to drill is by doing the initial drills in the beginning of their respective sections, studying the section, and then drilling with the Cambridge packets.

Edit: Also your analogy is a great example of a flaw type LR question: learning how to drive is not analogous to preparing for a professional school admittance exam.

Concur. Drilling is in invaluable, an incredible learning tool, an extremely useful way to learn the intricacies of the question types, including what wrong answers typically look like, etc etc etc.

But it is so necessary to go through some books because the books teach you effective ways to approach questions and each have subtle nuances in this approach. I found that the trainer + manhattan LR sections are >>>>>>>> compared to 7sage LR (obviously JY's vids are invaluable for learning games). But without reading those I would really be lost as to the intricacies of LR questions, especially the differences between necessary and sufficient assumptions.

And I typically eschew evaluating claims made on here according to LSAT logic, but that a aloft was particularly weak.

Edit: by aloft I mean analogy.

hotpinkpumas · Post by **hotpinkpumas** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:41 pm

I had originally checked in on the June thread but decided to postpone the test until I actually have some time to study. I'm finishing my senior year in college and I just don't think I would have been able to concentrate during these last few months. I plan to take the test this fall and then for this upcoming cycle. So here's to an awesome study run with all of y'all!

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:19 pm

hotpinkpumas wrote:I had originally checked in on the June thread but decided to postpone the test until I actually have some time to study. I'm finishing my senior year in college and I just don't think I would have been able to concentrate during these last few months. I plan to take the test this fall and then for this upcoming cycle. So here's to an awesome study run with all of y'all!

Welcome to the jungle

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:25 pm

surf wrote:That moment when logic games start getting a lot easier...great feeling!!!

Still have a long way to go though

I just did a game the other day and had such an easy time setting it up the diagram, and I remember the first time I did that game it took me forger to figure out how to diagram.

It is a great feeling. It's also like wtf? Why didn't I see this?

Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:50 pm

BillPackets wrote: wtf? Why didn't I see this?

This is what I feel like every time I watch a 7Sage video on how to do a level 3 or 4 grouping game. Never ceases to make me feel like an idiot.

surf · Post by **surf** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:40 am

BillPackets wrote:
I just did a game the other day and had such an easy time setting it up the diagram, and I remember the first time I did that game it took me forger to figure out how to diagram.

It is a great feeling. It's also like wtf? Why didn't I see this?

Same. For me it was also making a bunch of inferences I never would've made before. Pretty stoked on it ! Hoping to improve my timing now.

iiibbystar · Post by **iiibbystar** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:11 pm

Checking in! Postponing June was probably my fourth time moving the LSAT date, but now I'm committed

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:04 pm

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Tyr · Post by **Tyr** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:22 pm

I finished The Trainer, but now I'm going to start using Manhattan. I'll drill after each subsequent question type/chapter. The Trainer is excellent, but I feel like I just need...more. It is probably because I've done minimal drilling while going through The Trainer. I expect the two to be somewhat similar, so I think I've got a very solid foundation laid.

As others have said, drilling is only part of the equation. Possibly one of the very most important aspects is review. All the drilling in the world won't save you unless you understand what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong - and how to correct it. Review is the way to get there.

I'm going to drill after each chapter (which covers a specific question-type), but I don't know how much to drill. I checked out PithyPike's guide, but it seems somewhat vague and/or lacking in specifics of how much to drill - especially when you take into consideration the products available from Cambridge LSAT. Does anybody have suggestions?

Also, mornincounselor, couldn't you have taken a picture from a character that is a little less ugly than him? It's like a rodent wearing a suit, except uglier.

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:44 pm

Toby Ziegler wrote:
BillPackets wrote: wtf? Why didn't I see this?
This is what I feel like every time I watch a 7Sage video on how to do a level 3 or 4 grouping game. Never ceases to make me feel like an idiot.

JY lets the inferences flow through him. It is incredible.

I've also felt like an idiot a time or two (or 3, or 4, or 8...) after watching his vids.

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:46 pm

surf wrote:
BillPackets wrote:
I just did a game the other day and had such an easy time setting it up the diagram, and I remember the first time I did that game it took me forger to figure out how to diagram.

It is a great feeling. It's also like wtf? Why didn't I see this?
Same. For me it was also making a bunch of inferences I never would've made before. Pretty stoked on it ! Hoping to improve my timing now.

I'm in the same boat as you. I think I'm pretty close to getting the easy games to around 5-6 minutes and the more difficult ones to around 12.

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:52 pm

Tyr wrote:

I'm going to drill after each chapter (which covers a specific question-type), but I don't know how much to drill. I checked out PithyPike's guide, but it seems somewhat vague and/or lacking in specifics of how much to drill - especially when you take into consideration the products available from Cambridge LSAT. Does anybody have suggestions?

Do you have the Cambridge packets? If so, do all of those. You need a decent amount of free time to drill at length everyday, especially since you need to review every question you drill.

But, after I finish a chapter in a book about any LR section, I typically drill only that question type until I feel like a understand the nature of the question type, and can recognize the characteristics of right and wrong answers.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:32 am

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Toby Ziegler · Post by **Toby Ziegler** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:26 am

mornincounselor wrote:Well I acquired the Cambridge packets and started drilling last night. Started out with Sufficient Assumption questions. 14/14 on the easiest questions, no circled questions.

Nice. Are you giving yourself 1:25 per question? Something I would suggest is trying to ensure you can complete the level 1 & 2 questions in less than a minute, for I've found a lot of the level 4 and some level 3 questions take me ~ 2 minutes. Being able to complete the easier questions in less time gives more time for the tougher questions. This all may be axiomatic but I think it's important to keep in mind.

BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:43 am

mornincounselor wrote:Well I acquired the Cambridge packets and started drilling last night. Started out with Sufficient Assumption questions. 14/14 on the easiest questions, no circled questions.

You might also try mixing in every level of difficulty when drilling rather than drilling all level 1, then level 2, and so on and so forth.

I used to still by level, then I read in a thread somewhere that it's more helpful to mix it up. I've found that mixing all levels together really shows you how are proficient you are at a certain question type.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:35 pm

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BillPackets · Post by **BillPackets** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:40 pm

mornincounselor wrote:I wasn't timing myself last night, it was right before bed and I was likely a tad slower than normal, but LR is the section I've never had a problem with finishing on time before. That being said I will start timing myself in the future. Mixing up the questions is interesting. I guess I could shuffle the pages up but the difficulty of the first question would give the difficulty of the entire page away so I'm not sure how effective shuffling them would be.

Right, it's not really about "tricking" yourself and not knowing the difficulty level of the question you're doing, but more about doing all levels during one drilling session to see what your level of proficiency actually is.

I find it useful to see the differences/difficulty between the levels in each drilling session. I think it brings out the differences in the answer choices much more clearly.