The Official September 2014 Study Group Forum

170plusordie · Post by **170plusordie** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:28 pm

Any material differences in PT's from the early to mid 60s to PTs in the 70s?

Just curious. I had a friend tell me that from PT 65 and up the LG and RC sections become very difficult.

chimera · Post by **chimera** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:36 pm

170plusordie wrote:Any material differences in PT's from the early to mid 60s to PTs in the 70s?

Just curious. I had a friend tell me that from PT 65 and up the LG and RC sections become very difficult.

The idea that there are trends in the difficulty of LSAT sections was talked about a few pages ago ITT, and from what I remember the sentiment was that there really is no significant difference in difficulty between a contemporary LSAT section vs an older LSAT section. Plus, five exams is scant proof for a trend in difficulty anyway.

NotASpecialSnowflake · Post by **NotASpecialSnowflake** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:16 pm

Does anyone have any info about how to deal with having to reuse old material? I'm doing quite well on practice tests and questions I worked on a year ago, but when I found the LSAT India materials, I did poorly on the first one I tried. Does this mean that I'm not prepared or is it something else? Obviously I need to do more, but I'm not sure what to think now. I can get 170s on all the reused PTs I want, but if I can't handle new material, I won't do well on test day.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:23 pm

170plusordie wrote:I had a friend tell me that from PT 65 and up the LG and RC sections become very difficult.

He/she probably told you that to make themselves feel better.

People do that all the time. Happens on TLS all the time too. A person who study fro 27 years for the LSAT says they're awesome because they worked hard and didn't have anything given to them. A person who scores 175 cold says they're awesome because they actually have the ability the LSAT tests, as opposed to someone who just learns the test.

Everybody wants to spin it to make themselves look good.

gnomgnomuch · Post by **gnomgnomuch** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:26 pm

sfoglia wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:
AtticusRising wrote:In a recent conversation..

Friend: You shouldn't study so hard. You should take time to travel and enjoy Europe.
Me: I work full-time, the LSAT is in 10 1/2 weeks and I want a full ride scholarship.
Friend: Good luck chasing unicorns.

I will find that fucking unicorn.
Bahahahahahaa. Exactly.

I KNOW! People that I've talked with are going "Dude, you're going to LS , you'll make BANK, just take out 200K (BEFORE INTEREST) in loans, you'll pay that off real quick." Then when I tell them, I'm not settling for anything lower than a 1/2 scholarship at a t-14, or a full ride to a strong regional they look at me like I'm insane.
Why yes, of course. Why even bother to chase Harvard when Kansas City Regional General Law School will take you? (Made that name up, obviously.)

Every time I say if not a T14 and not with a serious scholarship, I'm not attending, I get the whole, "But I know X who went to TTT school and works as a lawyer now and is making eight billion dollars!" Good for him. But, exceptions are not rules.

WOOOOOAW! Dude, KCRGLS is a totaallly tublular law school.

Today was an LSAT free day... im trying to not feel guilty about this, and surprisingly succeeding.

diiggidy · Post by **diiggidy** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:12 pm

After my last 2 prep tests, I've realized that I need a bit of work on flaw questions. I've been going consistently -1 to -3 on each LR section, which i'm pretty happy with but obviously hoping to improve. For already doing this well, I think i'm missing a significant amount of flaw questions considering many other questions are almost "applied" flaw questions. However, I'm essentially perfect on sufficient assumption (-2 on the whole cambridge packet) and also good on necessary assumption (-10ish on level 1 and 2 combined). Is there possibly a different approach to flaw questions anyone has been successful with? Possibly something different in answer choices? I already feel myself getting better, but just wanted to get some other people's input.

I've also begun drilling RC sections, and started with the humanities packet since they're my least favorite and probably needs to most work. I'm doing okay on level 1's, but not nearly as good as I'd like. I know RC is more difficult to improve on, but I feel like my method of drilling (just doing sections) isn't the best. How has everyone found is the best way of reviewing RC sections to get the most out of them?

Superstaranonymous · Post by **Superstaranonymous** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:26 pm

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:35 pm

Superstaranonymous wrote:
NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Does anyone have any info about how to deal with having to reuse old material? I'm doing quite well on practice tests and questions I worked on a year ago, but when I found the LSAT India materials, I did poorly on the first one I tried. Does this mean that I'm not prepared or is it something else? Obviously I need to do more, but I'm not sure what to think now. I can get 170s on all the reused PTs I want, but if I can't handle new material, I won't do well on test day.
I've had similar reservations about reusing old materials. It seems plenty of TLSers have come under the assumption that the newer PTs are "more difficult" than the older ones. I've been told that this is due to a shift in focus towards more of the question/game types that were underrepresented in the past. My experience with the LSAT last year(despite being ill-prepared) seemed to have supported the idea that they are shifting the focus of question types.

Does anyone have any helpful advice/info that could shed some light on these concerns?

Also NotASpecialSnowflake, are you only referring to the LSAT India PTs?

Someone asks about if there's a huge difference in the old PTs and new PTs, someone says RC is a little harder, someone says games are a little easier (which after June 2014 I'm not even sure that's correct but anyhow), this "consensus" of three posters is taken as fact, someone else asks a month later and someone (in a fashion much too dogmatic) states that games are easier and RC is harder, this cycle repeats, repeats, and repeats, people think it so when they take a new PT they subconsciously think to themselves that games are a little easier and RC is a little harder, then they tell someone else that when they ask, repeat, repeat.

The differences between old and new LSATs is extremely overblown on TLS in my opinion. Although there are differences.

NotASpecialSnowflake · Post by **NotASpecialSnowflake** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:25 pm

Yeah, but I did better on the next drill I took from them. I think the issue is focus, not learning. Although I could use some fine tuning.

As for RC, I'd say the difference is mental. Before I took the 2013 October LSAT, I though new RC was killer. When I took the December 2013 LSAT, I couldn't tell the difference. Now, I get better scores on the new material. Don't let it get to you.

blsnared · Post by **blsnared** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:32 pm

Is anyone available to help me with an unbalanced/underfunded linear game?

ilikebaseball · Post by **ilikebaseball** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:33 pm

Are there any hidden RC strategies, besides just doing it over and over, that anyone would recommend?

170plusordie · Post by **170plusordie** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:57 pm

choward014 wrote:Are there any hidden RC strategies, besides just doing it over and over, that anyone would recommend?

read for structure

fine tune your strategy for attacking the questions. Most rc questions are just inference questions so choose weak, proveable answers not strong answers that are definitive. Also, make sure you know where the author stands after reading the passage. For parallel or analogous questions perhaps write on the side by the question your prephase or what features you will have to match up when examining the answer choices.

I would say main pacing strategy is try to be on the 2nd or 3rd question of the last passage by the time the proctor or your app or phone or whatever gives the 5 minute warning. That's an ideal place.

ilikebaseball · Post by **ilikebaseball** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:03 am

170plusordie wrote:
choward014 wrote:Are there any hidden RC strategies, besides just doing it over and over, that anyone would recommend?
read for structure

fine tune your strategy for attacking the questions. Most rc questions are just inference questions so choose weak, proveable answers not strong answers that are definitive. Also, make sure you know where the author stands after reading the passage. For parallel or analogous questions perhaps write on the side by the question your prephase or what features you will have to match up when examining the answer choices.

I would say main pacing strategy is try to be on the 2nd or 3rd question of the last passage by the time the proctor or your app or phone or whatever gives the 5 minute warning. That's an ideal place.

People always say this, but I don't understandd. Read for structure? What do you look for? Like the Viewpoint thing in the bible?

gnomgnomuch · Post by **gnomgnomuch** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:36 am

choward014 wrote:
170plusordie wrote:
choward014 wrote:Are there any hidden RC strategies, besides just doing it over and over, that anyone would recommend?
read for structure

fine tune your strategy for attacking the questions. Most rc questions are just inference questions so choose weak, proveable answers not strong answers that are definitive. Also, make sure you know where the author stands after reading the passage. For parallel or analogous questions perhaps write on the side by the question your prephase or what features you will have to match up when examining the answer choices.

I would say main pacing strategy is try to be on the 2nd or 3rd question of the last passage by the time the proctor or your app or phone or whatever gives the 5 minute warning. That's an ideal place.
People always say this, but I don't understandd. Read for structure? What do you look for? Like the Viewpoint thing in the bible?

For me - I'm a Poli sci Major with minors in Journalism, Corp Comm and English, so it just comes naturally - i look at what every paragraph does. Does the first paragraph introduce an idea, ok great, now what about the second? Does it strengthen that idea? weaken it? Maybe it introduces another idea?

Also try to anticipate what the structure could be, for example:

Does the first paragraph introduce background information, now what? The second paragraph should expound on that information. Whats the POINT of the background information in the first paragraph? Does it lead to a main point, or is it just filler?

How about the authors point - does he agree with it/disagree with it?

For specific reference questions look for high level vocab, ambivalence, disagreements/agreements.

Even if you have to spend 4 minutes outlining and making sure you understand what each paragraph does in relation to the others, take that time. Don't bother with the nitty gritty details. For those, i just underline/circle - on the margins i write the overarching theme of the paragraph. Once you master this, RC becomes a fair amount easier.

AtticusRising · Post by **AtticusRising** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:55 am

sfoglia wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:
AtticusRising wrote:In a recent conversation..

Friend: You shouldn't study so hard. You should take time to travel and enjoy Europe.
Me: I work full-time, the LSAT is in 10 1/2 weeks and I want a full ride scholarship.
Friend: Good luck chasing unicorns.

I will find that fucking unicorn.
Bahahahahahaa. Exactly.

I KNOW! People that I've talked with are going "Dude, you're going to LS , you'll make BANK, just take out 200K (BEFORE INTEREST) in loans, you'll pay that off real quick." Then when I tell them, I'm not settling for anything lower than a 1/2 scholarship at a t-14, or a full ride to a strong regional they look at me like I'm insane.
Why yes, of course. Why even bother to chase Harvard when Kansas City Regional General Law School will take you? (Made that name up, obviously.)

Every time I say if not a T14 and not with a serious scholarship, I'm not attending, I get the whole, "But I know X who went to TTT school and works as a lawyer now and is making eight billion dollars!" Good for him. But, exceptions are not rules.

"Everything seems impossible until it's done."
There's a little Mandela for us all who believe we can get into a T14 with a nice check. "Don't stop believing." (and a little Journey)

@gnomgnomuch You were on TLS forums today. That counts

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:15 am

Post removed.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:20 am

mornincounselor wrote:According to 7Sage's question difficulty scale I'm not missing any of the most difficult 5-star LR questions. It's always the 3-4 star or the occasional tricky early 2 star. Not sure what if anything this means.

Not sure either. One thing to keep in mind is selection bias. People who input PTs into 7sage grader care at least enough to take a PT. I don't have any specific stats (and can't find any), but in my anecdotal experience, a significant amount of people take the test stone cold. Someone who inputs a PT into 7sage or LSATQA probably at least knows how to set up a logic game, which I sure as hell couldn't do the first time I took the June 2007 test as my diagnostic.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:28 am

Post removed.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:38 pm

mornincounselor wrote:
Louis1127 wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:According to 7Sage's question difficulty scale I'm not missing any of the most difficult 5-star LR questions. It's always the 3-4 star or the occasional tricky early 2 star. Not sure what if anything this means.
Not sure either. One thing to keep in mind is selection bias. People who input PTs into 7sage grader care at least enough to take a PT. I don't have any specific stats (and can't find any), but in my anecdotal experience, a significant amount of people take the test stone cold. Someone who inputs a PT into 7sage or LSATQA probably at least knows how to set up a logic game, which I sure as hell couldn't do the first time I took the June 2007 test as my diagnostic.
So you're saying that perhaps the questions which are most difficult according to 7sage may not be in actuality the hardest question for those who are studying but that it's those who don't study who have the big problems with these questions?

No, I was trying to get at (not very well, haha) is that because of selection bias, a two-star difficulty question might actually be kind of hard but a high percentage of 7sagers are getting it right because they have taken PTs/are working hard at studying.

Edit: Just a thought, not sure if it's valid or not.

berkeleynick · Post by **berkeleynick** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:55 pm

Just started prepping again for LSAT last night and it was a failure because I was so exhausted from work.

I'm starting by re-reading the MLSAT LR section on parallel reasoning, but I did some practice ones and boy did I suck. I've always found these somewhat difficult because I overlook some key differences between the stimulus and the right answer.

Does anyone have any types who's become exceptionally good at these questions?

ILikeKneadedErasers · Post by **ILikeKneadedErasers** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:38 pm

Hi everyone.
I'm pretty new to the forum and am more than a little intimidated by how much you all have already prepared so far. I've been studying for about a month and a half so far and took my first full LSAT today. It was amazing how quickly it wore me out. I did the first 2 sections with relative ease, got a bit tired in the third section, and was completely exhausted halfway through the fourth and beyond.

Please tell me you get used to the length of the LSAT eventually. My neck started cramping up by the 4th section and my timing (already an issue for me) got progressively worse until it was almost laughable how slow I was getting. I wasn't even really aiming for actual LSAT test day settings either. I did pretty well untimed but while my timed score was okay-ish, it was a lot worse than my untimed and lower than my goals.

Are these things that are likely to improve with a few more full LSATs under my belt? Is it possible to build up LSAT stamina by the September test date? I'm willing to defer it if necessary.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:42 pm

PT 43

Score: 164

RC -10

LR1 -2

LR2 -4

LG -3

While this is a personal best in terms of a PT score, I am not a happy camper about RC. I didn't realize how low I was on time for the last passage, because the second passage was super dense and confusing. I definitely have some RC review and subsequent drilling on the horizon.

I think cutting out LR questions that gave you trouble and going over them twice a week or so seems to help. Props to MorninCounselor for that.

Time to review RC

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:43 pm

[quote="ILikeKneadedErasers"]
Please tell me you get used to the length of the LSAT eventually. /quote]
Yes. But it takes work. Although it you pput work in stamina does come pretyt naturally, at least it did to me.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:44 pm

Post removed.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:45 pm

Has anyone found 7sage scaled score to be off?

Mine for PT 43 said 165 but the actual sheet from LSAC clearly said 164.

Not a big deal obviously. Just wondering what's up