The Official June 2016 Study Group Forum

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magooshtravis

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by magooshtravis » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:45 pm

appind wrote:
the issue with choice C is something that can be understood using this,
conclusion: Most A are B (or "A is likely B")
choice: Some A are ~B

in the above, do you think the choice weakens the conclusion?
Okay, I understand your question better now. I think the explanation lies in the use of "many" and "most" in the problem.

The conclusion is that chess skills likely contribute to academic achievement. For something to be likely, it needs to be true more than half the time.

Now, the conclusion is based on the evidence claiming that most (more than half) of the chess kids got better in school. Answer choice C, however, implies that many of the chess kids improved in school for a reason other than chess. If you subtract "many" from "most," there is a chance that it's no longer true that more than half of the kids improved in school because of chess. Therefore, choice C calls into question the likelihood of the conclusion more than any other answer choice, and that's all it needs to do.

Remember, the question doesn't ask which answer destroys the conclusion. It asks which one "most tends to undermine" it.

railyard

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by railyard » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:50 pm

What's everyone's least favorite LR question type? I cannot seem to grasp Justify (SA) questions for some reason :cry:

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appind

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by appind » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:39 pm

magooshtravis wrote:
Okay, I understand your question better now. I think the explanation lies in the use of "many" and "most" in the problem.

The conclusion is that chess skills likely contribute to academic achievement. For something to be likely, it needs to be true more than half the time.

Now, the conclusion is based on the evidence claiming that most (more than half) of the chess kids got better in school. Answer choice C, however, implies that many of the chess kids improved in school for a reason other than chess. If you subtract "many" from "most," there is a chance that it's no longer true that more than half of the kids improved in school because of chess. Therefore, choice C calls into question the likelihood of the conclusion more than any other answer choice, and that's all it needs to do.

Remember, the question doesn't ask which answer destroys the conclusion. It asks which one "most tends to undermine" it.
i guess i understand that we are trying to find a choice that weakens the argument even by a tiny bit, as only one choice would weaken the argument to any extent, and the rest four would either be neutral or strengthen the arg. even though instructions ask to pick the one that most weakens, i think it's supposed to protect lsac in case of question disputes and the test is designed so that no question will have two choices that weaken to different degrees and a choice stands on its own merit. so in your answer, it seems you suggest that choice1 would not weaken but choice2 would, even though "some" and "many" have similar logical force as both suggest anything greater than none but neither of them suggest "most". since they have same logical force, i am not sure how it could be uncontroversial that choice-1 doesn't weaken but choice-2 does?

conclusion: most A are B (or "A is likely B")
choice-1: some A are ~B
choice-2: many A are ~B

christine defenbaugh of mlsat had posted thoughts about this issue regarding another question a while ago. she seems to hold that for a "some/many" choice can't weaken a "most" conclusion shown above, but it can weaken a definitive conclusion. so if the conclusion were: "all A are B (or "A is B")" then both choices weaken it, but neither does when the conclusion is not definitive and just likely.
Christine (MLSAT) wrote: To sum up: For a 'some' statement to be relevant, a number of things have to be true - the conclusion is going to be definitive (the assumption is extreme - more vulnerable to attack and receptive to support); the one of the elements in the 'some' statement needs to match the information from the premise; we need to not ALREADY have the essential 'some' information in the premises.
here is the quote, but you can look up the details at http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p8600218
magooshtravis wrote: B) Irrelevant--the argument is about students who finished the program. Furthermore, the preprogram levels of achievement of a student are only relevant to the same student's postprogram levels. We are not comparing students to each other.
the argument is about students who finished the program but B also tells us something about those same students, which is that they had a higher pre-program level of achievement than those who didn't complete. it does seem to compare these students as being better than others who eventually didn't finish even before the program began. this strongly suggests that they were better intellect students even prior to beginning the program compared to other students. therefore it provides alternate reason that their increase in achievement could be due to them being innately better and not due to chess?

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by Mikey » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:18 pm

railyard wrote:What's everyone's least favorite LR question type? I cannot seem to grasp Justify (SA) questions for some reason :cry:
I hate parallel flawed reasoning questions. It's not that I don't understand them, because I do, I just hate how long they take me to do!

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by 20170322 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:16 pm

Ugh, after months of drilling, I've actually gotten worse.


PT 63:

Score: 167
LR1: -1
LG: -3
LR2: -4
RC: -6

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by Mikey » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:17 pm

Anyone else feel that the LR sections from PT 1-20ish are tougher than 21 and on? I feel like this is only me because I've read that people think the earlier PT are easier, but I beg to differ haha.

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aghassemi91

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by aghassemi91 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:00 pm

railyard wrote:What's everyone's least favorite LR question type? I cannot seem to grasp Justify (SA) questions for some reason :cry:

for me, strengthen & weaken questions always give me a hard time. I've always had a hard time figuring out the correct steps towards finding the right answers for either of those question types.

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by zeglo » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:10 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

carasrook

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by carasrook » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:58 am

railyard wrote:What's everyone's least favorite LR question type? I cannot seem to grasp Justify (SA) questions for some reason :cry:
Powerscore's LR bible has a really helpful formula for Justify questions - you should look into it if you haven't already!

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MAPP

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by MAPP » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:29 pm

TheMikey wrote:Anyone else feel that the LR sections from PT 1-20ish are tougher than 21 and on? I feel like this is only me because I've read that people think the earlier PT are easier, but I beg to differ haha.
I've read the same, but here's hoping you are correct!

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beenoparte125

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by beenoparte125 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:59 am

OK. Officially registered and paid for June. :shock:

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R. Jeeves

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by R. Jeeves » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:35 am

beenoparte125 wrote:OK. Officially registered and paid for June. :shock:
Same. No turning back now.

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by ccmart » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:28 pm

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by carasrook » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:41 pm

R. Jeeves wrote:
beenoparte125 wrote:OK. Officially registered and paid for June. :shock:
Same. No turning back now.
Same same!! Magically, since I've registered I've lost a great deal of motivation. What's that about?

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by Mikey » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:23 pm

...
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beenoparte125

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by beenoparte125 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:02 pm

SweetTort wrote:Ugh, after months of drilling, I've actually gotten worse.


PT 63:

Score: 167
LR1: -1
LG: -3
LR2: -4
RC: -6
I have had a similar experience recently with an earlier prep test. RC came out of nowhere and absolutely murdered my score... After thinking about it, I think perhaps I let my guard down just a little after plowing through LR and LG... I am taking a PT tonight and am going to be extremely vigilant about staying as focused as possible.

Destiny0921

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by Destiny0921 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:42 pm

SweetTort wrote:Currently working the 7sage method through every logic game from PT1-36. Currently on the simple ordering-- lord, give me 4 of these on test day.

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Destiny0921

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by Destiny0921 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:44 pm

Seriously struggling with LG, any suggestions? I'm currently reading the LSAT Trainer. Any Suggestions to get better at these?

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by Mikey » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:05 pm

Destiny0921 wrote:Seriously struggling with LG, any suggestions? I'm currently reading the LSAT Trainer. Any Suggestions to get better at these?
To be honest, I haven't read any books for LG, I just do them and watch 7sage videos but that seems to work for me. I've heard great things abut the powerscore LG bible though.

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by carasrook » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:10 pm

Destiny0921 wrote:Seriously struggling with LG, any suggestions? I'm currently reading the LSAT Trainer. Any Suggestions to get better at these?
I really liked the Powerscore LG Bible, if the LSAT Trainer isn't clicking with you.

Also - are you practicing LG timed? Something that really helped me with LG was doing full LG sections untimed until I managed to get them all right with -0 or -1 per section. Now I'm working on managing to complete everything within the 35 mins, but at least I feel confident that I can solve almost any game that comes my way!

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by Pozzo » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:29 pm

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Last edited by Pozzo on Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by patttt » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:16 pm

Destiny0921 wrote:Seriously struggling with LG, any suggestions? I'm currently reading the LSAT Trainer. Any Suggestions to get better at these?
copy and print out each section three times, and do them with no less than one day in between each. it's the repetition that makes you get better and start to grasp the typical patterns and game structures. if you're still struggling with a given section after three fresh attempts, then print each section out more copies and keep doing it.

hope this helps

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magooshtravis

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by magooshtravis » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:04 pm

appind wrote:
the argument is about students who finished the program but B also tells us something about those same students, which is that they had a higher pre-program level of achievement than those who didn't complete. it does seem to compare these students as being better than others who eventually didn't finish even before the program began. this strongly suggests that they were better intellect students even prior to beginning the program compared to other students. therefore it provides alternate reason that their increase in achievement could be due to them being innately better and not due to chess?
If the students were innately better, they would have been innately better before the chess program as well as after. In other words, their grades would have been strong beforehand, and yet their grades still went up after the program. That implies that the chess program had some sort of effect even for the brightest kids at the school, thus strengthening the argument.

To answer your other question, I think "some" and "many" statements can influence a "most" statement, although it's uncommon. This question is an example of how they can. Most of the chess kids' grades went up, and the conclusion argues it's likely because of chess. The correct answer points out that at least some of those kids' grades went up for another reason. Thus, we have "some" weakening a "likely" conclusion about a "most" statement. Here's a parallel example:

Most apples that have been overwatered are unpopular with consumers. This is likely because the apples produce more sugar when it's hot and dry.

Answer choice: Studies have shown that the flesh of some apples deteriorates when it's exposed to too much water.


Notice how the answer choice doesn't disprove anything. It simply makes you wonder whether the overwatered apples suck because they haven't produced enough sugar or because their flesh has deteriorated.

In the same way, the correct answer choice here simply makes you wonder whether the students' grades went up because they learned how to play chess or because they studied harder to qualify for the chess team.

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aghassemi91

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by aghassemi91 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:23 pm

How's everyones prep going so far? I've been taking some time off of testing to drill & have been noticing my accuracy going back up; hope you guys have been having similar success! :D

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R. Jeeves

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group

Post by R. Jeeves » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:38 pm

are test with harder LG sections offset with easier RC sections and vice versa? Sometimes it feels that way to me.

LG and RC are my most volatile sections. Sometimes I'm perfect and sometimes out of nowhere I go -4. But usually if i bomb LG (-4 or more) I do quite well on RC (-1 or -0) and vice versa.

I generally don't go below -2 combined on LR.

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