The Official September 2014 Study Group Forum

jmjm · Post by **jmjm** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:48 am

axel.foley wrote:
fra wrote:I'm about half way through the LSAT Trainer and I'm feeling thoroughly underwhelmed by it. I'm strongly considering just tossing it.
Can anyone who has finished it vouch for the second half of the trainer? Does it suddenly get awesome at the end?
I began my prep with the Trainer a few months back and, in retrospect, I think that time was largely wasted. Since then I have read through most of the LR Bible and Blueprint LG, and found them much better. While the Trainer's approach is commendable in many ways, insofar as trying to simplify everything based on key commonalities between all LSAT questions (classifying LR flaws into those 3 nice categories for example), I personally have found the nitty gritty approach of the aforementioned books far more useful. If I have time before the test, I may return to the Trainer since it might be helpful now that I have experience with the test. But in general I also was underwhelmed and wish I hadn't spent the time with it. I realize this goes against TLS dogma as of late, but ultimately I think everyone finds different approaches useful. If the 1st half didn't do it for you, the 2nd half definitely won't either. HTH!

I feel the same way. Find the book a bit over-repetitive.

bondja · Post by **bondja** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:03 am

Learn_Live_Hope wrote:
Hm…where are you going?

P.S. You don't have to share if its too personal.

Some cabin on a lake in Missouri. My father-in-law just received his Disability back payments so he wanted to do a family vacation. It will be fun but I'd rather be studying. I'll have time to study and I've already made it very clear to all my family members that my studies come waaaaay before them. Except my wife. Happy wife = happy life.

bondja · Post by **bondja** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:05 am

h3jk5h wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:Since I'm still going ~12 on LR I decided to bite the bullet and buy Manhattan, and since one was 40$ and all three were 80$, I got them all. They're coming on Thursday, so tmrw I'll go over PT 41 in depth, do some games, and maybe a couple of RC sections. It'll be a light day, but once my books come, back to the grind.

On the plus side, I looked over my excel sheet and my last three PT's have been 158-161-163, so it does seem like I'm getting better.

Also, want to really thank everyone on here, my family and friends want to strangle me every time I bring up the LSAT...which is basically the only thing on my mind, so I'm trying to refrain from talking about it and LS. You guys allow me to vent my frustrations (and my successes) while being supportive. So really, thank you =)
Oh my goodness... I just hope my parents don't bring up a word of the LSAT, it puts too much pressure.

Good progress, bro.

People don't understand how big the LSAT is and how it doesn't use any knowledge you gained from general education. When you study for the test your brain is 100% LSAT 100% of the time and people don't get it. It seems easy to them, "Oh, just logic reasoning and reading? That's easy! A logic game, well you just put them in order like Sudoku."

AtticusRising · Post by **AtticusRising** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:00 am

In a recent conversation..

Friend: You shouldn't study so hard. You should take time to travel and enjoy Europe.
Me: I work full-time, the LSAT is in 10 1/2 weeks and I want a full ride scholarship.
Friend: Good luck chasing unicorns.

I will find that fucking unicorn.

chimera · Post by **chimera** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:50 am

AtticusRising wrote:In a recent conversation..

Friend: You shouldn't study so hard. You should take time to travel and enjoy Europe.
Me: I work full-time, the LSAT is in 10 1/2 weeks and I want a full ride scholarship.
Friend: Good luck chasing unicorns.

I will find that fucking unicorn.

Right there with you. Unfortunately drilling LR has been like pulling teeth the past few days.

sfoglia · Post by **sfoglia** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:15 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:Since I'm still going ~12 on LR I decided to bite the bullet and buy Manhattan, and since one was 40$ and all three were 80$, I got them all. They're coming on Thursday, so tmrw I'll go over PT 41 in depth, do some games, and maybe a couple of RC sections. It'll be a light day, but once my books come, back to the grind.

On the plus side, I looked over my excel sheet and my last three PT's have been 158-161-163, so it does seem like I'm getting better.

Also, want to really thank everyone on here, my family and friends want to strangle me every time I bring up the LSAT...which is basically the only thing on my mind, so I'm trying to refrain from talking about it and LS. You guys allow me to vent my frustrations (and my successes) while being supportive. So really, thank you =)

Loved the Manhattan LR. You will not be disappointed. I finished it in one week, working through a couple of chapters a day, and saw immediate improvement. I actually had trouble putting it down, to be honest; the writing was engaging and I felt like I was internalizing the strategies quiet effortlessly. I've been consistently scoring with no more than -3 on any LR section.

Which brings me to what I was going to originally post:

I'm working through the LR sections from The LSAT trainer now, and finding it a little elementary. Lots of drills. But, I think that it is helping to reinforce my areas of weakness. Kim definitely over-explains some concepts, but, I just scored -0/15 on one of the mixed-question chapters last night (!!!).

Did anyone use the Trainer for LG? Powerscore was just not working for me, so I'm wondering if maybe I need to start with the Trainer and then work my way back to the Power tome? Advice would be appreciated!

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:18 pm

Post removed.

sfoglia · Post by **sfoglia** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:23 pm

AtticusRising wrote:In a recent conversation..

Friend: You shouldn't study so hard. You should take time to travel and enjoy Europe.
Me: I work full-time, the LSAT is in 10 1/2 weeks and I want a full ride scholarship.
Friend: Good luck chasing unicorns.

I will find that fucking unicorn.

Bahahahahahaa. Exactly.

berkeleynick · Post by **berkeleynick** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:28 pm

jmjm wrote:
axel.foley wrote:
fra wrote:I'm about half way through the LSAT Trainer and I'm feeling thoroughly underwhelmed by it. I'm strongly considering just tossing it.
Can anyone who has finished it vouch for the second half of the trainer? Does it suddenly get awesome at the end?
I began my prep with the Trainer a few months back and, in retrospect, I think that time was largely wasted. Since then I have read through most of the LR Bible and Blueprint LG, and found them much better. While the Trainer's approach is commendable in many ways, insofar as trying to simplify everything based on key commonalities between all LSAT questions (classifying LR flaws into those 3 nice categories for example), I personally have found the nitty gritty approach of the aforementioned books far more useful. If I have time before the test, I may return to the Trainer since it might be helpful now that I have experience with the test. But in general I also was underwhelmed and wish I hadn't spent the time with it. I realize this goes against TLS dogma as of late, but ultimately I think everyone finds different approaches useful. If the 1st half didn't do it for you, the 2nd half definitely won't either. HTH!
I feel the same way. Find the book a bit over-repetitive.

Funny you guys mention this, I was scoring higher after Manhattan LSAT LR but because I am so obsessive and TLS raved by the Trainer, I thought I could go from low 170s to high 170s with it. It just made things worse and more convoluted. I think sometimes we trick ourselves into think more is better but it actually just makes things more confusing. If an approach is working, work on finessing that approach. My $.02.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:35 pm

Post removed.

berkeleynick · Post by **berkeleynick** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:50 pm

mornincounselor wrote:Interesting discussion here from my perspective. I feel my strongest section is LR (I mean I often do better on LG but I still feel I'm better, i.e. more consistent and confident in LR) yet I'm still missing questions. Was considering picking up Manhattan, I finished the Trainer about a month ago.

How many are you missing? I think the individualized approach to various questions that Manhattan LSAT LR does kind of allows you zero-in on common errors for particular question types and makes drilling easier. I think the Trainer has too general of an approach to questions. It gives a good foundation but not enough detail.

chimera · Post by **chimera** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:04 pm

mornincounselor wrote:Interesting discussion here from my perspective. I feel my strongest section is LR (I mean I often do better on LG but I still feel I'm better, i.e. more consistent and confident in LR) yet I'm still missing questions. Was considering picking up Manhattan, I finished the Trainer about a month ago.

I've only used Manhattan for LR and I've found it extremely helpful, especially in conjunction with Cambridge packets. It's only $30 on Amazon... I'd say it's worth it if you aren't seeing progress on a particular question type. At the very least you get some mini drills and great explanations on why certain answers are right or wrong. The conditional logic chapter is very good too.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:09 pm

I personally loved the Trainer.

Different strokes for different folks.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:15 pm

Post removed.

gnomgnomuch · Post by **gnomgnomuch** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:25 pm

bondja wrote:
h3jk5h wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:Since I'm still going ~12 on LR I decided to bite the bullet and buy Manhattan, and since one was 40$ and all three were 80$, I got them all. They're coming on Thursday, so tmrw I'll go over PT 41 in depth, do some games, and maybe a couple of RC sections. It'll be a light day, but once my books come, back to the grind.

On the plus side, I looked over my excel sheet and my last three PT's have been 158-161-163, so it does seem like I'm getting better.

Also, want to really thank everyone on here, my family and friends want to strangle me every time I bring up the LSAT...which is basically the only thing on my mind, so I'm trying to refrain from talking about it and LS. You guys allow me to vent my frustrations (and my successes) while being supportive. So really, thank you =)
Oh my goodness... I just hope my parents don't bring up a word of the LSAT, it puts too much pressure.

Good progress, bro.
People don't understand how big the LSAT is and how it doesn't use any knowledge you gained from general education. When you study for the test your brain is 100% LSAT 100% of the time and people don't get it. It seems easy to them, "Oh, just logic reasoning and reading? That's easy! A logic game, well you just put them in order like Sudoku."

What really gets me is that a lot of my friends are taking their MCAT's right now, and they're going "dude, you're so lucky, the LSAT is a JOKE."

gnomgnomuch · Post by **gnomgnomuch** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:29 pm

sfoglia wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:Since I'm still going ~12 on LR I decided to bite the bullet and buy Manhattan, and since one was 40$ and all three were 80$, I got them all. They're coming on Thursday, so tmrw I'll go over PT 41 in depth, do some games, and maybe a couple of RC sections. It'll be a light day, but once my books come, back to the grind.

On the plus side, I looked over my excel sheet and my last three PT's have been 158-161-163, so it does seem like I'm getting better.

Also, want to really thank everyone on here, my family and friends want to strangle me every time I bring up the LSAT...which is basically the only thing on my mind, so I'm trying to refrain from talking about it and LS. You guys allow me to vent my frustrations (and my successes) while being supportive. So really, thank you =)
Loved the Manhattan LR. You will not be disappointed. I finished it in one week, working through a couple of chapters a day, and saw immediate improvement. I actually had trouble putting it down, to be honest; the writing was engaging and I felt like I was internalizing the strategies quiet effortlessly. I've been consistently scoring with no more than -3 on any LR section.

Which brings me to what I was going to originally post:

I'm working through the LR sections from The LSAT trainer now, and finding it a little elementary. Lots of drills. But, I think that it is helping to reinforce my areas of weakness. Kim definitely over-explains some concepts, but, I just scored -0/15 on one of the mixed-question chapters last night (!!!).

Did anyone use the Trainer for LG? Powerscore was just not working for me, so I'm wondering if maybe I need to start with the Trainer and then work my way back to the Power tome? Advice would be appreciated!

Well the trainer brought me down from ~20 wrong combined, to ~12 combined. Though I only read it once, and it was a rather cursory read. So I'll definitely internalize as much as possible for MLR, even if I have to rererereread it.

The trainer for LG was pretty good, but I really loved the BP book. I'd recommend it over everything, I found the Bible to be dull, whereas BP is very engaging. To each his own though, so I'd take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

gnomgnomuch · Post by **gnomgnomuch** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:31 pm

sfoglia wrote:
AtticusRising wrote:In a recent conversation..

Friend: You shouldn't study so hard. You should take time to travel and enjoy Europe.
Me: I work full-time, the LSAT is in 10 1/2 weeks and I want a full ride scholarship.
Friend: Good luck chasing unicorns.

I will find that fucking unicorn.
Bahahahahahaa. Exactly.

I KNOW! People that I've talked with are going "Dude, you're going to LS , you'll make BANK, just take out 200K (BEFORE INTEREST) in loans, you'll pay that off real quick." Then when I tell them, I'm not settling for anything lower than a 1/2 scholarship at a t-14, or a full ride to a strong regional they look at me like I'm insane.

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:44 pm

I wanted to give you guys an update. I will be leaving today for 3 weeks, out of town, for training as a high school English teacher. Right after that, I have a bunch of faculty meetings, freshman orientation, etc. that will take me up to about a month before the test.

Am I freaking out?

Absolutely.

EDIT: Oh...and I won't have internet.

Louis1127 · Post by **Louis1127** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:10 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:I wanted to give you guys an update. I will be leaving today for 3 weeks, out of town, for training as a high school English teacher. Right after that, I have a bunch of faculty meetings, freshman orientation, etc. that will take me up to about a month before the test.

Am I freaking out?

Absolutely.

EDIT: Oh...and I won't have internet.

That does suck. But the important thing is that you are going to rock the LSAT.

WHEN you rock the LSAT is really not important at all.

sfoglia · Post by **sfoglia** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:24 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote: Well the trainer brought me down from ~20 wrong combined, to ~12 combined. Though I only read it once, and it was a rather cursory read. So I'll definitely internalize as much as possible for MLR, even if I have to rererereread it.

The trainer for LG was pretty good, but I really loved the BP book. I'd recommend it over everything, I found the Bible to be dull, whereas BP is very engaging. To each his own though, so I'd take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

Blueprint, yes. I've heard good things. I'm going to add it to my Amazon shopping list. That was my exact problem with the Bible; I think I was just completely glossed over, totally unengaged. I guess I'll start with the Trainer then work my way over to Blueprint. Thank you for the advice!

shakenbake · Post by **shakenbake** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:45 pm

sfoglia wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:Since I'm still going ~12 on LR I decided to bite the bullet and buy Manhattan, and since one was 40$ and all three were 80$, I got them all. They're coming on Thursday, so tmrw I'll go over PT 41 in depth, do some games, and maybe a couple of RC sections. It'll be a light day, but once my books come, back to the grind.

On the plus side, I looked over my excel sheet and my last three PT's have been 158-161-163, so it does seem like I'm getting better.

Also, want to really thank everyone on here, my family and friends want to strangle me every time I bring up the LSAT...which is basically the only thing on my mind, so I'm trying to refrain from talking about it and LS. You guys allow me to vent my frustrations (and my successes) while being supportive. So really, thank you =)
Loved the Manhattan LR. You will not be disappointed. I finished it in one week, working through a couple of chapters a day, and saw immediate improvement. I actually had trouble putting it down, to be honest; the writing was engaging and I felt like I was internalizing the strategies quiet effortlessly. I've been consistently scoring with no more than -3 on any LR section.

Which brings me to what I was going to originally post:

I'm working through the LR sections from The LSAT trainer now, and finding it a little elementary. Lots of drills. But, I think that it is helping to reinforce my areas of weakness. Kim definitely over-explains some concepts, but, I just scored -0/15 on one of the mixed-question chapters last night (!!!).

Did anyone use the Trainer for LG? Powerscore was just not working for me, so I'm wondering if maybe I need to start with the Trainer and then work my way back to the Power tome? Advice would be appreciated!

I used the PS for games and then looked over the lsat trainer games and found them to not be very helpful... I used the trainer for LR and RC and average missing about 2-4 of those for my practice tests, but for all of the LG sections in the trainer I just skipped them. I think that PS and Manhattan do a better job of teaching it. The trainer does help solidify the way you should approach LSAT questions of all types though. I found it to be a perfect refresher book because it leaves a lot of the nitty gritty out!

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:56 pm

Louis1127 wrote:
WaltGrace83 wrote:I wanted to give you guys an update. I will be leaving today for 3 weeks, out of town, for training as a high school English teacher. Right after that, I have a bunch of faculty meetings, freshman orientation, etc. that will take me up to about a month before the test.

Am I freaking out?

Absolutely.

EDIT: Oh...and I won't have internet.
That does suck. But the important thing is that you are going to rock the LSAT.

WHEN you rock the LSAT is really not important at all.

My thoughts exactly. Sometimes you just gotta keep on truckin' without truly understanding what is going to come next.

dardardelight · Post by **dardardelight** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:16 pm

First post in a while-- Since my mediocre June score, I took a break and just recently have started PT'ing 90's tests and will slowly make my way up to the recent ones by mid-September.

Just took PT 11 last night and rocked it: 175
RC -1
LG -0
LR -4 total

HOw much easier are early tests? I feel like all the prep books and learning techniques are catered towards the logic and content of the earlier tests, so maybe I'm just more prepared to attack these kinds of LR questions. Also, I've definetely drilled some of these questions in the cambridge packets and seen them before. There was some tricky LG though, which I'm glad I conquered. Weird feeling knowing that this score is probably not a true representation of my ability.. yet

Anyways, glad to be part of this thread starting now -- but feel wierd that I"m PT'ing early tests right now, which is mainly because I've never taken them in full before.. whereas I've taken PT 40-71 in full for the June test. I'm just going to sprint to the finish and take a PT every day after work during the weekdays.

kbrizz · Post by **kbrizz** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:41 pm

Can anyone point me in the right direction for a review of conditional rules in logic games? Does 7sage have something?

sfoglia · Post by **sfoglia** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:49 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:
sfoglia wrote:
AtticusRising wrote:In a recent conversation..

Friend: You shouldn't study so hard. You should take time to travel and enjoy Europe.
Me: I work full-time, the LSAT is in 10 1/2 weeks and I want a full ride scholarship.
Friend: Good luck chasing unicorns.

I will find that fucking unicorn.
Bahahahahahaa. Exactly.

I KNOW! People that I've talked with are going "Dude, you're going to LS , you'll make BANK, just take out 200K (BEFORE INTEREST) in loans, you'll pay that off real quick." Then when I tell them, I'm not settling for anything lower than a 1/2 scholarship at a t-14, or a full ride to a strong regional they look at me like I'm insane.

Why yes, of course. Why even bother to chase Harvard when Kansas City Regional General Law School will take you? (Made that name up, obviously.)

Every time I say if not a T14 and not with a serious scholarship, I'm not attending, I get the whole, "But I know X who went to TTT school and works as a lawyer now and is making eight billion dollars!" Good for him. But, exceptions are not rules.