FEBRUARY 2015 WAITERS' CIRCUS GREY CONFIRMED!!!! Forum

sfoglia · Post by **sfoglia** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:53 pm

JackelJ wrote:
TheProdigal wrote:Because people are going to use computers throughout college, they've had four years to become accustomed to them. Tablets, on the other hand, are still very much the possessions of the well-to-do. It immediately can make someone feel that they don't belong there. While most people at this point have experience with touchscreens, I think the mental aspect of being expected to take a test on a piece of equipment that reminds you of your economic disadvantage is a problem. Just as women perform worse on science and math tests when they are reminded of being female, or African-Americans perform worse after bubbling in their race, using technology that can be seen as the toys of the rich likely would negatively affect the performance of disadvantaged test-takers.
This is a joke right?

I mean, you don't even have to remind me, really. I'm conscious every second of every day that as woman I am intellectually inferior...

(Joke.)

CambrianExplosives · Post by **CambrianExplosives** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:55 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
WhiteHouse wrote:
zacboro wrote:What kind of posts? Me having low self confidence in how I did?
I think he means "I want the scores to come out already" posts
No, I was talking about how he talks about how horrible he is at RC and what his study plan is for correcting that.

"RC is hard here's my plan to study RC I just went -4 on RC but yesterday I went -8 on RC so I'm pretty inconsistent on RC and am therefore nervous about RC"

See, when it comes to regular posters, you know a little something about them. Shaq is psycho. Rigo is rigo. Red doesn't want biglaw. Baseball is an athlete. Nlee is a cali azn gymbro. Prodical takes rape seriously. Leslie, despite being in at a T10, is desperately retaking for more $$$. Schmelling is dumb. But what do we know about Zacboro? He's really bad at RC.

Look, I agree Zac could open up a bit more and read the tone of the thread a bit better, but I think he's just processing this still. A lot of people here are retakers and its hard for those of us who haven't done this before to come to grips with how we are feeling. I was in Zac's shoes yesterday which is why I tried to avoid the forums as much as possible.

@Zac, the thing is that everyone here is in the same boat. We are all waiting and want to know what happened. However, this isn't the June prep thread. And PnJ is right, it may help take your mind off of the wait if you joined in with the normal discussions that happen on here. I know talking about food and TV the other night helped a ton.

nosocat · Post by **nosocat** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:56 pm

TheProdigal wrote:
nosocat wrote:
TheProdigal wrote:Had this in September -- with the risk of hacking, crashing programs, and other issues just seem to be unmanageable. Besides, the test already advantages the wealthy and privileged, I can't imagine it being beneficial socially to use tablets. It's not like the GRE where everyone has a decent understanding of, and experience with, computers. Compared to that, I'm pretty content waiting three weeks for a score.

Someone want to call me a SJW again?
I don't get it. Why would people taking the GRE be expected to have experience with computers, but not people taking the LSAT?
Because people are going to use computers throughout college, they've had four years to become accustomed to them. Tablets, on the other hand, are still very much the possessions of the well-to-do. It immediately can make someone feel that they don't belong there. While most people at this point have experience with touchscreens, I think the mental aspect of being expected to take a test on a piece of equipment that reminds you of your economic disadvantage is a problem. Just as women perform worse on science and math tests when they are reminded of being female, or African-Americans perform worse after bubbling in their race, using technology that can be seen as the toys of the rich likely would negatively affect the performance of disadvantaged test-takers.

Got it. I would guess LSAC probably has a pretty high bar for test-takers' comfort level before they'll actually make the switch, but who knows. I thought you were saying that GRE test-takers are more likely to have used computers/tablets/etc. than LSAT takers ... hopefully I did better than that at following people's reasoning on Saturday!

sfoglia · Post by **sfoglia** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:56 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote: See, when it comes to regular posters, you know a little something about them. Shaq is psycho. Rigo is rigo. Red doesn't want biglaw. Baseball is an athlete. Nlee is a cali azn gymbro. Prodical takes rape seriously. Leslie, despite being in at a T10, is desperately retaking for more $$$. Schmelling is dumb. But what do we know about Zacboro? He's really bad at RC.

QFNP. Also awesomeness...

Shakawkaw · Post by **Shakawkaw** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:58 pm

Solace, only in the sh*t post.

xoxo,
Sept. waiters

CambrianExplosives · Post by **CambrianExplosives** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:00 pm

JackelJ wrote:
TheProdigal wrote:Because people are going to use computers throughout college, they've had four years to become accustomed to them. Tablets, on the other hand, are still very much the possessions of the well-to-do. It immediately can make someone feel that they don't belong there. While most people at this point have experience with touchscreens, I think the mental aspect of being expected to take a test on a piece of equipment that reminds you of your economic disadvantage is a problem. Just as women perform worse on science and math tests when they are reminded of being female, or African-Americans perform worse after bubbling in their race, using technology that can be seen as the toys of the rich likely would negatively affect the performance of disadvantaged test-takers.
This is a joke right?

Unfortunately, it's not. I remember reading about that. http://web.stanford.edu/group/ipc/pubs/2006Steele.pdf.

The thing is that this isn't because women are inherently worse at math and science or inherently better at art (obviously). The psychological effect of stereotyping are real. This is exactly why stereotyping can be so dangerous. It's not just how people treat others based on those stereotypes, but a real subconscious effect on those being stereotyped.

The study and discussion in that paper is really interesting.

gamerish · Post by **gamerish** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:07 pm

Post removed...

nosocat · Post by **nosocat** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:07 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Prodigal, how expensive do you think tablets are? How poor do you think the average LSAT test taker is? How low do you think the average LSAT test taker's sense of self-worth is? Your post includes so many assumptions I'm having a hard time thinking it's not a parody. Poe's law and all that.

I'd actually be more concerned about older folks. I could be off-base, but it seems that an undergrad who is planning on applying to law school would have decent exposure to touch screens, even if he/she is not well-off. But at my test center, I'd say there were at least five individuals who appeared to be late 40s or older. Not to say that all older people are technologically inept, but even older people I know who do own tablets (e.g., my mom) don't tend to know how to use them as efficiently or effectively as younger people. I'm old-ish myself by TLS standards and would probably be less comfortable taking the test on a tablet compared to paper or a computer.

Then again, if I knew it would be on a touchscreen, I would have prepared that way to make sure I was ready by test day, which definitely reflects some degree of socioeconomic advantage.

Man, I am babbling like a baby bat up in here.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:08 pm

nlee10 · Post by **nlee10** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:09 pm

nosocat wrote: Man, I am babbling like a baby bat up in here.

babbling bat.

CambrianExplosives · Post by **CambrianExplosives** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:10 pm

gamerish wrote:Stereotype threat having a negative effect on test taking has been disproven at least as many times as it's been proven. It shouldn't be taken at face value as fact.

I want to qualify this by saying that I am genuinely interested, not attacking you when I say,

Do you have any examples of this?

I was honestly shocked when I first read that paper and wasn't able to find any recent research on it. However, that was more than a couple years ago and I haven't tried since then. If you have any examples of studies I would really be interested to read them.

PeanutsNJam · Post by **PeanutsNJam** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:13 pm

CambrianExplosives wrote:
gamerish wrote:Stereotype threat having a negative effect on test taking has been disproven at least as many times as it's been proven. It shouldn't be taken at face value as fact.
I want to qualify this by saying that I am genuinely interested, not attacking you when I say,

Do you have any examples of this?

I was honestly shocked when I first read that paper and wasn't able to find any recent research on it. However, that was more than a couple years ago and I haven't tried since then. If you have any examples of studies I would really be interested to read them.

Intuitively, I'd say stereotyping affects some and not others. If you have low self-confidence and self-esteem, and/or have a terrible sense of self-worth, you're going to do poorly if people tell you that you will do poorly. But if you don't give a shit, then it won't affect you.

gamerish · Post by **gamerish** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:17 pm

Post removed...

JackelJ · Post by **JackelJ** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:20 pm

CambrianExplosives wrote:Unfortunately, it's not. I remember reading about that. http://web.stanford.edu/group/ipc/pubs/2006Steele.pdf.

The thing is that this isn't because women are inherently worse at math and science or inherently better at art (obviously). The psychological effect of stereotyping are real. This is exactly why stereotyping can be so dangerous. It's not just how people treat others based on those stereotypes, but a real subconscious effect on those being stereotyped.

The study and discussion in that paper is really interesting.

I guess I never got the memo to be subconsciously affected by that stereotype
But all of these sample sizes are pretty small, only 50 females? The data could be skewed by the demographics of people - it seems like they were all from the same general area. Its from 10 years ago, since then they have started to heavily recruit females into math and sciences so hopefully the stereotypes are changing

eta: and yeah what PNJ said

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:20 pm

Smallville · Post by **Smallville** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:25 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
WhiteHouse wrote:
zacboro wrote:What kind of posts? Me having low self confidence in how I did?
I think he means "I want the scores to come out already" posts
No, I was talking about how he talks about how horrible he is at RC and what his study plan is for correcting that.

"RC is hard here's my plan to study RC I just went -4 on RC but yesterday I went -8 on RC so I'm pretty inconsistent on RC and am therefore nervous about RC"

See, when it comes to regular posters, you know a little something about them. Shaq is psycho. Rigo is rigo. Red doesn't want biglaw. Baseball is an athlete. Nlee is a cali azn gymbro. Prodical takes rape seriously. Leslie, despite being in at a T10, is desperately retaking for more $$$. Schmelling is dumb. But what do we know about Zacboro? He's really bad at RC.

I wouldn't be lying if I said I wasn't offended for being excluded... but w.e

CambrianExplosives · Post by **CambrianExplosives** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:26 pm

JackelJ wrote:
CambrianExplosives wrote:Unfortunately, it's not. I remember reading about that. http://web.stanford.edu/group/ipc/pubs/2006Steele.pdf.

The thing is that this isn't because women are inherently worse at math and science or inherently better at art (obviously). The psychological effect of stereotyping are real. This is exactly why stereotyping can be so dangerous. It's not just how people treat others based on those stereotypes, but a real subconscious effect on those being stereotyped.

The study and discussion in that paper is really interesting.
I guess I never got the memo to be subconsciously affected by that stereotype
But all of these sample sizes are pretty small, only 50 females? The data could be skewed by the demographics of people - it seems like they were all from the same general area. Its from 10 years ago, since then they have started to heavily recruit females into math and sciences so hopefully the stereotypes are changing

eta: and yeah what PNJ said

I don't have time to read it right now, but I think this may be the paper Gamerish was referencing http://volition.gla.ac.uk/~stoet/pdf/St ... GP2012.pdf.

It looks like it may support the methodology flaws that he was referring to. I figured I'd post it for people who do have time. I plan to read it when I get home today.

m27 · Post by **m27** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:28 pm

Smallville wrote:
m27 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if something computerized is introduced in the near future. Interestingly, they had everyone on my floor fill out a brief questionnaire before the certifying statement on Saturday, asking if we're familiar with smartphones, tablets, and touch screen keypads.

Imagine doing games on the real test via iPad?
FTFY
I didn't do a questionnaire

Actually, it was on the back of the scantron. Weird.

I'm so out of the waiters loop whoops

CambrianExplosives · Post by **CambrianExplosives** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:30 pm

Dirigo wrote:
Dirigo wrote:Are we really indulging the SJW right now?

Sorry Rigo. One of the things I was really into in college was the interaction of neurobiology and psychology studies so I can get caught up in these kinds of discussions. This and astrobiology, focusing on precambrian microorganisms and the effect of geochemical processes on early planet evolution.

Now I'm feeling trapped at work and want to nerd out reading about some of these things.

Smallville · Post by **Smallville** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:31 pm

m27 wrote:
Smallville wrote:
m27 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if something computerized is introduced in the near future. Interestingly, they had everyone on my floor fill out a brief questionnaire before the certifying statement on Saturday, asking if we're familiar with smartphones, tablets, and touch screen keypads.

Imagine doing games on the real test via iPad?
FTFY
I didn't do a questionnaire
Actually, it was on the back of the scantron. Weird.

I'm so out of the waiters loop whoops

oh lol the how you studied thing?

JackelJ · Post by **JackelJ** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:32 pm

Smallville wrote:I wouldn't be lying if I said I wasn't offended for being excluded... but w.e

same

gamerish · Post by **gamerish** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:34 pm

Post removed...

nosocat · Post by **nosocat** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:38 pm

Smallville wrote:
m27 wrote:
Smallville wrote:
m27 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if something computerized is introduced in the near future. Interestingly, they had everyone on my floor fill out a brief questionnaire before the certifying statement on Saturday, asking if we're familiar with smartphones, tablets, and touch screen keypads.

Imagine doing games on the real test via iPad?
FTFY
I didn't do a questionnaire
Actually, it was on the back of the scantron. Weird.

I'm so out of the waiters loop whoops
oh lol the how you studied thing?

Might be able to help clear this one up... There is a one-question mini survey right above the certifying statement. IIRC, in December, mine asked about my comfort level with technologies like tablets. In February, it asked how I studied (paid course, PrepTests, self-study, etc.).

PeanutsNJam · Post by **PeanutsNJam** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:38 pm

storpappa · Post by **storpappa** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:40 pm

How many accepts will you get between now and the day scores come out?

I only have 1 status checker that says they hold if you register for another LSAT. I did not tell them I registeted iny app. I don't know if they can check or get notified of exam registration if an app is already submitted