I agree, this was definitely the easiest for me to learn so far. I'm doing fairly decent with them honestly. The only ones that screw me up, especially with timing, are the harder grouping games. But the easier to do games like basic ordering and advanced ordering or whatever the hell it's called, I'm pretty good with.sephora_addict wrote:So far as I go through the lessons I am doing really well in LG's. I would have to say that it is the easiest and most learnable part of the LSAT. How are you doing with LG? Let me know if you ever need help with any practice problems! I'm currently working on overbooked/underbooked games. Or at least that is what Blueprint calls them lol.TheMikey wrote:Right! Haha. Yeah, I've gotten pretty fast and accurate at doing MSS questions, but for the life of me I cannot get good at MBT questions lol. I'm giving it time though! How are logic games going for you?sephora_addict wrote:We should study together. We both have the same problemsTheMikey wrote:The wording of some strengthen and most strongly supported questions confuse me sometimes
Specifically when worded like this:
Strengthen: Which one of the following, if true, most strongly supports the explanation above?
MSS: The information above most strongly supports which one of the following?
I see the distinction, but I always get confused D:![]()
I got better at MSS though. Reviewing MBT using 7Sage sometime this week. Hopefully I'll get it this time or I'm gonna give up!
The Official June 2016 Study Group Forum
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Mikey

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
- sephora_addict

- Posts: 144
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:09 pm
Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
We got this! 1/3 of the LSAT downTheMikey wrote:I agree, this was definitely the easiest for me to learn so far. I'm doing fairly decent with them honestly. The only ones that screw me up, especially with timing, are the harder grouping games. But the easier to do games like basic ordering and advanced ordering or whatever the hell it's called, I'm pretty good with.sephora_addict wrote:So far as I go through the lessons I am doing really well in LG's. I would have to say that it is the easiest and most learnable part of the LSAT. How are you doing with LG? Let me know if you ever need help with any practice problems! I'm currently working on overbooked/underbooked games. Or at least that is what Blueprint calls them lol.TheMikey wrote:Right! Haha. Yeah, I've gotten pretty fast and accurate at doing MSS questions, but for the life of me I cannot get good at MBT questions lol. I'm giving it time though! How are logic games going for you?sephora_addict wrote:We should study together. We both have the same problemsTheMikey wrote:The wording of some strengthen and most strongly supported questions confuse me sometimes
Specifically when worded like this:
Strengthen: Which one of the following, if true, most strongly supports the explanation above?
MSS: The information above most strongly supports which one of the following?
I see the distinction, but I always get confused D:![]()
I got better at MSS though. Reviewing MBT using 7Sage sometime this week. Hopefully I'll get it this time or I'm gonna give up!
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Mikey

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Yep!sephora_addict wrote:We got this! 1/3 of the LSAT downTheMikey wrote:I agree, this was definitely the easiest for me to learn so far. I'm doing fairly decent with them honestly. The only ones that screw me up, especially with timing, are the harder grouping games. But the easier to do games like basic ordering and advanced ordering or whatever the hell it's called, I'm pretty good with.sephora_addict wrote:So far as I go through the lessons I am doing really well in LG's. I would have to say that it is the easiest and most learnable part of the LSAT. How are you doing with LG? Let me know if you ever need help with any practice problems! I'm currently working on overbooked/underbooked games. Or at least that is what Blueprint calls them lol.TheMikey wrote:Right! Haha. Yeah, I've gotten pretty fast and accurate at doing MSS questions, but for the life of me I cannot get good at MBT questions lol. I'm giving it time though! How are logic games going for you?sephora_addict wrote:We should study together. We both have the same problemsTheMikey wrote:The wording of some strengthen and most strongly supported questions confuse me sometimes
Specifically when worded like this:
Strengthen: Which one of the following, if true, most strongly supports the explanation above?
MSS: The information above most strongly supports which one of the following?
I see the distinction, but I always get confused D:![]()
I got better at MSS though. Reviewing MBT using 7Sage sometime this week. Hopefully I'll get it this time or I'm gonna give up!
- sephora_addict

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- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:09 pm
Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
DUDE ME TOO! I don't get it. It all makes sense to me. I still get a few wrong here and there with other LR questions and it is usually because of a dumb rookie mistake like not reading the answer choice carefully etc.. but MBT questions are a whole other situation. I'm lucky if I get 2/5 right.. Makes me feel stupid that I can't get it right away.TheMikey wrote:Yep!sephora_addict wrote:We got this! 1/3 of the LSAT downTheMikey wrote:I agree, this was definitely the easiest for me to learn so far. I'm doing fairly decent with them honestly. The only ones that screw me up, especially with timing, are the harder grouping games. But the easier to do games like basic ordering and advanced ordering or whatever the hell it's called, I'm pretty good with.sephora_addict wrote:So far as I go through the lessons I am doing really well in LG's. I would have to say that it is the easiest and most learnable part of the LSAT. How are you doing with LG? Let me know if you ever need help with any practice problems! I'm currently working on overbooked/underbooked games. Or at least that is what Blueprint calls them lol.TheMikey wrote:Right! Haha. Yeah, I've gotten pretty fast and accurate at doing MSS questions, but for the life of me I cannot get good at MBT questions lol. I'm giving it time though! How are logic games going for you?sephora_addict wrote:We should study together. We both have the same problemsTheMikey wrote:The wording of some strengthen and most strongly supported questions confuse me sometimes
Specifically when worded like this:
Strengthen: Which one of the following, if true, most strongly supports the explanation above?
MSS: The information above most strongly supports which one of the following?
I see the distinction, but I always get confused D:![]()
I got better at MSS though. Reviewing MBT using 7Sage sometime this week. Hopefully I'll get it this time or I'm gonna give up!Surprisingly, LR questions don't seem as bad for me as they do for some people. I don't know how, but the strategies/reasoning for each question type just comes naturally to me.. EXCEPT for MBT question lol. Is this normal? O.O
- somethingElse

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
All you need to know for MBT (and MSS):
Wrong answers will do/be one of the following:
1) Out of scope: E.g. The stimulus will be talking about velociraptors in the southern hemisphere and the answer choice will talk about velociraptors in the northern hemisphere.
2) Too Strong: E.g. The stimulus will talk about a way that kids can learn how to read, and the answer choice will say that it is the ONLY way to read. Look out for key words here especially, words like "most," "usually," "the only," etc.
3) False: E.g. The stimulus will say that there are three types of Orangoutangs, and the answer choice will say that there are only two.
Number 2 is the most important; Look for a weak answer choice in terms of logical force.
Wrong answers will do/be one of the following:
1) Out of scope: E.g. The stimulus will be talking about velociraptors in the southern hemisphere and the answer choice will talk about velociraptors in the northern hemisphere.
2) Too Strong: E.g. The stimulus will talk about a way that kids can learn how to read, and the answer choice will say that it is the ONLY way to read. Look out for key words here especially, words like "most," "usually," "the only," etc.
3) False: E.g. The stimulus will say that there are three types of Orangoutangs, and the answer choice will say that there are only two.
Number 2 is the most important; Look for a weak answer choice in terms of logical force.
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- sephora_addict

- Posts: 144
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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Thanks for the tips! Much appreciatedsomethingelse55 wrote:All you need to know for MBT (and MSS):
Wrong answers will do/be one of the following:
1) Out of scope: E.g. The stimulus will be talking about velociraptors in the southern hemisphere and the answer choice will talk about velociraptors in the northern hemisphere.
2) Too Strong: E.g. The stimulus will talk about a way that kids can learn how to read, and the answer choice will say that it is the ONLY way to read. Look out for key words here especially, words like "most," "usually," "the only," etc.
3) False: E.g. The stimulus will say that there are three types of Orangoutangs, and the answer choice will say that there are only two.
Number 2 is the most important; Look for a weak answer choice in terms of logical force.
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Mikey

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Thanks, I'll keep this advice in mind!somethingelse55 wrote:All you need to know for MBT (and MSS):
Wrong answers will do/be one of the following:
1) Out of scope: E.g. The stimulus will be talking about velociraptors in the southern hemisphere and the answer choice will talk about velociraptors in the northern hemisphere.
2) Too Strong: E.g. The stimulus will talk about a way that kids can learn how to read, and the answer choice will say that it is the ONLY way to read. Look out for key words here especially, words like "most," "usually," "the only," etc.
3) False: E.g. The stimulus will say that there are three types of Orangoutangs, and the answer choice will say that there are only two.
Number 2 is the most important; Look for a weak answer choice in terms of logical force.
-
Mikey

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- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:24 pm
Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
What about RC, how are you doing in that section? I get destroyed by it, lmao.sephora_addict wrote:Thanks for the tips! Much appreciatedsomethingelse55 wrote:All you need to know for MBT (and MSS):
Wrong answers will do/be one of the following:
1) Out of scope: E.g. The stimulus will be talking about velociraptors in the southern hemisphere and the answer choice will talk about velociraptors in the northern hemisphere.
2) Too Strong: E.g. The stimulus will talk about a way that kids can learn how to read, and the answer choice will say that it is the ONLY way to read. Look out for key words here especially, words like "most," "usually," "the only," etc.
3) False: E.g. The stimulus will say that there are three types of Orangoutangs, and the answer choice will say that there are only two.
Number 2 is the most important; Look for a weak answer choice in terms of logical force.I will look out for those kinds of wrong answer choices.
- sephora_addict

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
im actually doing pretty well in it. I'll miss like one question, sometimes two in each passage and it's usually because I didn't read the answer choices closely enough. Like a word will trip me up in an answer choice and I end up picking a wrong one. But overall not too bad. I just gotta learn to carefully read each answer choice so I don't make dumb mistakes like that hahaTheMikey wrote:What about RC, how are you doing in that section? I get destroyed by it, lmao.sephora_addict wrote:Thanks for the tips! Much appreciatedsomethingelse55 wrote:All you need to know for MBT (and MSS):
Wrong answers will do/be one of the following:
1) Out of scope: E.g. The stimulus will be talking about velociraptors in the southern hemisphere and the answer choice will talk about velociraptors in the northern hemisphere.
2) Too Strong: E.g. The stimulus will talk about a way that kids can learn how to read, and the answer choice will say that it is the ONLY way to read. Look out for key words here especially, words like "most," "usually," "the only," etc.
3) False: E.g. The stimulus will say that there are three types of Orangoutangs, and the answer choice will say that there are only two.
Number 2 is the most important; Look for a weak answer choice in terms of logical force.I will look out for those kinds of wrong answer choices.
- RamTitan

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
I was about to register for the test, but I noticed the date was Monday, June 6th. I thought the test was on a Saturday? What's going on?
- MAPP

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Do you have any specific method for doing RC? For example, annotations, or small summaries after each paragraph, or speed read so there is more time for questions, etc.sephora_addict wrote:
im actually doing pretty well in it. I'll miss like one question, sometimes two in each passage and it's usually because I didn't read the answer choices closely enough. Like a word will trip me up in an answer choice and I end up picking a wrong one. But overall not too bad. I just gotta learn to carefully read each answer choice so I don't make dumb mistakes like that haha
- Blueprint Mithun

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Not to hijack the topic, but I've been writing about RC a lot recently, so I thought I'd offer my two cents.MAPP wrote:Do you have any specific method for doing RC? For example, annotations, or small summaries after each paragraph, or speed read so there is more time for questions, etc.sephora_addict wrote:
im actually doing pretty well in it. I'll miss like one question, sometimes two in each passage and it's usually because I didn't read the answer choices closely enough. Like a word will trip me up in an answer choice and I end up picking a wrong one. But overall not too bad. I just gotta learn to carefully read each answer choice so I don't make dumb mistakes like that haha
Speed reading isn't a great idea, because you probably won't be able to synthesize the main ideas of the passage, and will have to spend lots of time returning to the passage once you get to the questions. This can be especially damaging with the more abstract questions, like main point, or questions relating to perspective/opinions. With detail-oriented questions, you can always jump back into the passage, and it won't take much time if you know where to look. But to finish an RC section effectively and within 35 minutes means that you have to minimize the amount of time you spend going back and forth.
So when it comes to main point, author's attitude, the major perspectives on the issue, and the general structure/flow of the passage, you should be actively reading for those things during your first read-through. And I don't believe that you can actively read well if you're also speed-reading (unless you've trained that for a looong time). I've advised a ton of students in the past to slow down their reading pace. If you read deliberately and effectively, you'll save time in the long run.
Are you being an active reader? Do you take a second after each paragraph/chunk to quickly recap what you've just read? Doing so can really help you understand the big picture behind the passages better. It also improves your knowledge of the flow of the passage, and where different details that you might later have to search for are located. Are you consciously looking out for author attitude and different perspectives/POVs on the issue?
You should make a habit of doing these, and if short annotations help you work on that, then go ahead and use them. If you really want to reach your full potential at RC, however, you should wean yourself off of making too many notes, if any at all. The truth is, these passages are relatively short, and not all that complicated. With enough practice, there's no reason you won't be able to remember all the most crucial pieces of information presented to you.
And as sephora_addict said, read those answer choices closely and carefully. This is incredibly important for LR as well. In both sections, the difference between two answer choices might come down to a single word that throws one of them off. If you review your missed questions carefully and take notes, you'll be less likely to fall for those same traps in the future.
One of the most valuable and oft-ignored bits of RC advice: make it interesting for yourself. For many students, RC is a battle of concentration and engagement. It's easy to get intimidated and/or bored by these (relatively) big chunks of text which frequently discuss arcane, snore-inducing topics. But if you approach RC with the mindset of "this is my least favorite section," or "I can't wait to be done with this one," you're more likely to miss out on nuances in the passage or lose your focus. So tell yourself whatever you have to to stay engaged, to make the passages, dare I say it, fun?
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Mikey

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
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Last edited by Mikey on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- aghassemi91

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Does anyone have any advice in regards to timing with games? My accuracy is there, but I can't seem to finish a games section in under 43 minutes. I usually don't go any more than -2 on games, if that; the only thing that's lacking is my timing.
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guppiesbaby

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
I had the same problem and just started doing lots of timed LG sections. All that practice sped me up and I went from typically finishing 3 games to finishing all 4, usually with a minute or two left over.aghassemi91 wrote:Does anyone have any advice in regards to timing with games? My accuracy is there, but I can't seem to finish a games section in under 43 minutes. I usually don't go any more than -2 on games, if that; the only thing that's lacking is my timing.
- JimmieWhisper

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Hi everyone, it's been a LONG-ASS time since I last said anything on this thread. I've been a little slow in starting my prep, but I'm finally about halfway done with the powerscore LRB and a quarter of the way done with LGB. Does anyone have an opinion as to when to start practice testing? Should I do it while working through the books or wait til after? I'm just worried about learning bad habits or something by taking too many tests before I learn how to attack certain problems.
On a side note, I'm loving Logic games setup; making all the rules fit nicely into place is so mentally satisfying!
On a side note, I'm loving Logic games setup; making all the rules fit nicely into place is so mentally satisfying!
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Mikey

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Hey, at least you're enjoying the games! HeheJimmieWhisper wrote:Hi everyone, it's been a LONG-ASS time since I last said anything on this thread. I've been a little slow in starting my prep, but I'm finally about halfway done with the powerscore LRB and a quarter of the way done with LGB. Does anyone have an opinion as to when to start practice testing? Should I do it while working through the books or wait til after? I'm just worried about learning bad habits or something by taking too many tests before I learn how to attack certain problems.
On a side note, I'm loving Logic games setup; making all the rules fit nicely into place is so mentally satisfying!
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- appind

- Posts: 2266
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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
are you confirming and eliminating all wrong choices even after having found the right choice? if so, don't do that for lg and try to do easier sequence games fast.aghassemi91 wrote:Does anyone have any advice in regards to timing with games? My accuracy is there, but I can't seem to finish a games section in under 43 minutes. I usually don't go any more than -2 on games, if that; the only thing that's lacking is my timing.
- magooshtravis

- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:11 pm
Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
I took the official exam in 2005, but I have been tutoring the exam fairly consistently ever since and have taken all the PrepTests through December 2015. While there are subtle shifts in question types from test to test, I have found the changes in the LSAT tend to be more cyclical than linear. You might see a question type pop up frequently for a few years in a row, then disappear almost entirely for 3 or 4 years, and then suddenly reemerge for a few years.appind wrote:
when did you last take lsat? the test has changed a bit over the years and there seems to be a subtle shift in lr and rc.
Of course there are some real shifts like Comparative Reading and the more spacious Logic Games layout. There are also subtle but significant shifts like the relative infrequency of rare game types in Analytical Reasoning over the past 15 years. However, these are usually either clearly announced or well documented in most prep materials.
Is there a particular shift in LR or RC that you've noticed and have questions about?
- magooshtravis

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
sephora_addict wrote:
I am diagramming them but i'm having problems with diagramming conditional logic. Like some of the words confuse me so then I don't know how to graph it or what i'm looking for in the answer
Hi Sephora,
Is there specific conditional logic language that's confusing you? I'd strongly recommend keeping a log of any words or phrases that you don't feel comfortable diagramming. Have it handy every time you do any practice, so that as soon as you confront the tricky language, you can record it. Usually, a quick Google of the term(s) will provide a dozen blog posts or videos on how to interpret it, but if that doesn't help, post it here or feel free to message me for help.
Mastering conditionals is honestly easier than it seems at first. You have to learn a few basics, but there are really only about half a dozen terms you need to know. Beyond that, the most important skill is learning when to draw out conditional options completely vs when to simply note them and be able to draw them out later.
Maybe start here? http://magoosh.com/lsat/2015/ifthen-sta ... -the-lsat/ That's very basic level stuff, but you can link through to some slightly more advanced concepts from there.
Hope that helps!
- aghassemi91

- Posts: 60
- Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:46 pm
Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
appind wrote:are you confirming and eliminating all wrong choices even after having found the right choice? if so, don't do that for lg and try to do easier sequence games fast.aghassemi91 wrote:Does anyone have any advice in regards to timing with games? My accuracy is there, but I can't seem to finish a games section in under 43 minutes. I usually don't go any more than -2 on games, if that; the only thing that's lacking is my timing.
No, I've gotten in the habit of going to the next question as soon as i find the right answer. I spend the most amount of time up front trying to figure out all my deductions before jumping into the game, so that could be a reason why my timing is off.
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CPAlawHopefu

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
I have a question about RC Main Point Question.
Let's say there's a passage that is structured in the following way -
PARAGRAPH 1: Background Info on an Issue that is ongoing.
PARAGRAPH 2: Solution A is discussed pertaining to the issue.
PARAGRAPH 3: Alternative Solution B is presented.
PARAGRAPH 4: Author thinks Solution A makes more sense.
On the main point/idea question about this message, it comes down to two answer choices:
A) Problems pertaining to the issue at hand remains controversial and unresolved.
B) Solution A makes more sense than solution B with regards to the issue at hand.
Answer choice A paraphrases the background info, Answer choice B paraphrases the author's opinion.
My question, is main point question about selecting author's main opinion (Answer choice B), or is it more about summarizing the passage as a whole (Answer choice A)?
Let's say there's a passage that is structured in the following way -
PARAGRAPH 1: Background Info on an Issue that is ongoing.
PARAGRAPH 2: Solution A is discussed pertaining to the issue.
PARAGRAPH 3: Alternative Solution B is presented.
PARAGRAPH 4: Author thinks Solution A makes more sense.
On the main point/idea question about this message, it comes down to two answer choices:
A) Problems pertaining to the issue at hand remains controversial and unresolved.
B) Solution A makes more sense than solution B with regards to the issue at hand.
Answer choice A paraphrases the background info, Answer choice B paraphrases the author's opinion.
My question, is main point question about selecting author's main opinion (Answer choice B), or is it more about summarizing the passage as a whole (Answer choice A)?
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Pozzo

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
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Last edited by Pozzo on Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CPAlawHopefu

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Pozzo wrote:Given what you wrote above, the correct answer to this question would be B. In a main point question like this, it's asking for the author's purpose in writing the passage. Don't be confused by the fact that two possible solutions are offered. That doesn't change the main point of the passage. The author is arguing that solution A is the better solution.CPAlawHopefu wrote:I have a question about RC Main Point Question.
Let's say there's a passage that is structured in the following way -
PARAGRAPH 1: Background Info on an Issue that is ongoing.
PARAGRAPH 2: Solution A is discussed pertaining to the issue.
PARAGRAPH 3: Alternative Solution B is presented.
PARAGRAPH 4: Author thinks Solution A makes more sense.
On the main point/idea question about this message, it comes down to two answer choices:
A) Problems pertaining to the issue at hand remains controversial and unresolved.
B) Solution A makes more sense than solution B with regards to the issue at hand.
Answer choice A paraphrases the background info, Answer choice B paraphrases the author's opinion.
My question, is main point question about selecting author's main opinion (Answer choice B), or is it more about summarizing the passage as a whole (Answer choice A)?
ETA: For contrast's sake, for "A" to be the correct answer, the passage would probably look something like this:
PARAGRAPH 1: Background Info on an Issue that is ongoing.
PARAGRAPH 2: Solution A is discussed pertaining to the issue.
PARAGRAPH 3: Alternative Solution B is presented.
PARAGRAPH 4: Author thinks that neither A nor B fully address the problem they are attempting to solve.
Ah, thank you for the contrasting example. This makes much more sense now.
- New_Spice180

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Re: The Official June 2016 Study Group
Hey guys just joining you all after getting back into my studying. I found the assumption questions are the most frustrating LR type for me. Does anyone have a trick to bridge the gap between the new information in the premise and conclusion? I just ran through a drill with the Cambridge books and I didn't do so hot. Thanks.
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