The Official June 2016 Study Group Forum

[MAPP]

@railyard,

Do you use the Powerscore book for LR? It helps tremendously. And learning the fundamentals of conditionality and causal reasoning is key because one or the other appears in like 80% of the questions.

Yes I am, I going to re-read those sections over again before I do anymore drills, need to drill the fundamentals first.

Good! I am a strong advocate of focusing on fundamentals/strategy, then accuracy, then efficiency (accuracy under the time pressure).

Doesn't the powerscore book advocate not reading the question stem first and instead says to start with the stimulus? From experience, and from what I've heard of others' experiences, that is not a recommended strategy if you want to do well on LR.

[MAPP]

Haha will do the few times that has happened was because I didn't get much sleep and when I woke back up I got back to studying so at least I'm good with that haha. But again I really feel that I need a desk. Told my parents that would be a good birthday present!

The library is also a good option too? I seem to focus better when I'm not at home

[fliptrip]

Doesn't the powerscore book advocate not reading the question stem first and instead says to start with the stimulus? From experience, and from what I've heard of others' experiences, that is not a recommended strategy if you want to do well on LR.

Oh my goodness, I hope not. If they do advocate that, I wonder why.

[sephora_addict]

Haha will do the few times that has happened was because I didn't get much sleep and when I woke back up I got back to studying so at least I'm good with that haha. But again I really feel that I need a desk. Told my parents that would be a good birthday present!

The library is also a good option too? I seem to focus better when I'm not at home

I live in the middle of no where in PA lol.. So the closest library is prob 35 minutes out of my way. So I'd rather study home. Plus my house is quiet between 6am-4pm since everyone's at work or school so I'm good

[MAPP]

Haha will do the few times that has happened was because I didn't get much sleep and when I woke back up I got back to studying so at least I'm good with that haha. But again I really feel that I need a desk. Told my parents that would be a good birthday present!

The library is also a good option too? I seem to focus better when I'm not at home

I live in the middle of no where in PA lol.. So the closest library is prob 35 minutes out of my way. So I'd rather study home. Plus my house is quiet between 6am-4pm since everyone's at work or school so I'm good

I wish I wasn't taking classes spring semester so I could study full time for the June lsat. The more I think about it, I probably should take it in Sep in order to sufficiently study. But I just hate the idea of taking it at 8:30 . 1:00 would be so much better

[sephora_addict]

Haha will do the few times that has happened was because I didn't get much sleep and when I woke back up I got back to studying so at least I'm good with that haha. But again I really feel that I need a desk. Told my parents that would be a good birthday present!

The library is also a good option too? I seem to focus better when I'm not at home

I live in the middle of no where in PA lol.. So the closest library is prob 35 minutes out of my way. So I'd rather study home. Plus my house is quiet between 6am-4pm since everyone's at work or school so I'm good

I wish I wasn't taking classes spring semester so I could study full time for the June lsat. The more I think about it, I probably should take it in Sep in order to sufficiently study. But I just hate the idea of taking it at 8:30 . 1:00 would be so much better

Haha I feel your pain about the test times. I may test in September depending how June goes. I hope you will be ready by June though!

[patttt]

Doesn't the powerscore book advocate not reading the question stem first and instead says to start with the stimulus? From experience, and from what I've heard of others' experiences, that is not a recommended strategy if you want to do well on LR.

Yes, powerscore does say to read the stimulus first, and false, it's definitely not a recommended strategy, at least among high scorers. Powerscores reasoning behind it is that skilled test takers who actually understand the material will pretty much know what the question will ask by just reading the stimulus. In my experience, they're right, and it's pretty rare that a question asks me something other than what I was expecting. For this alone, reading the question stem is merely a waste of time with no real advantage, for high scorers (and in your case, people who want to score highly).

If you aren't capable of anticipating what the question will ask, then you probably need to keep drilling question types. If you still can't anticipate what the question will ask, then sure, read the stem first.

Side note: If someome gives you lsat advice, make sure theyre at least scoring in the high 170s before you give them credence. If the people gave you that advice are high scorers, then fuck my life hahaha

[ayylmao]

Are old logic games harder than newer logic games?

I thought I was making decent progress on LG after doing Cambridge's PT 21-40 book. Now I'm doing 1-20 and I'm getting absolutely fucking wrecked. So many of these games just seem so hard and weird. What gives?

[MAPP]

Doesn't the powerscore book advocate not reading the question stem first and instead says to start with the stimulus? From experience, and from what I've heard of others' experiences, that is not a recommended strategy if you want to do well on LR.

Yes, powerscore does say to read the stimulus first, and false, it's definitely not a recommended strategy, at least among high scorers. Powerscores reasoning behind it is that skilled test takers who actually understand the material will pretty much know what the question will ask by just reading the stimulus. In my experience, they're right, and it's pretty rare that a question asks me something other than what I was expecting. For this alone, reading the question stem is merely a waste of time with no real advantage, for high scorers (and in your case, people who want to score highly).

If you aren't capable of anticipating what the question will ask, then you probably need to keep drilling question types. If you still can't anticipate what the question will ask, then sure, read the stem first.

Side note: If someome gives you lsat advice, make sure theyre at least scoring in the high 170s before you give them credence. If the people gave you that advice are high scorers, then fuck my life hahaha

Do other LR books say read the argument before the question stem? I've only read powerscore's book for LR and frankly it was not all that helpful. The Trainer and Manhattan receive much higher marks from TLSers, and I believe those books suggest that reading the question stem first is the way to go?

[sephora_addict]

Doesn't the powerscore book advocate not reading the question stem first and instead says to start with the stimulus? From experience, and from what I've heard of others' experiences, that is not a recommended strategy if you want to do well on LR.

Yes, powerscore does say to read the stimulus first, and false, it's definitely not a recommended strategy, at least among high scorers. Powerscores reasoning behind it is that skilled test takers who actually understand the material will pretty much know what the question will ask by just reading the stimulus. In my experience, they're right, and it's pretty rare that a question asks me something other than what I was expecting. For this alone, reading the question stem is merely a waste of time with no real advantage, for high scorers (and in your case, people who want to score highly).

If you aren't capable of anticipating what the question will ask, then you probably need to keep drilling question types. If you still can't anticipate what the question will ask, then sure, read the stem first.

Side note: If someome gives you lsat advice, make sure theyre at least scoring in the high 170s before you give them credence. If the people gave you that advice are high scorers, then fuck my life hahaha

Do other LR books say read the argument before the question stem? I've only read powerscore's book for LR and frankly it was not all that helpful. The Trainer and Manhattan receive much higher marks from TLSers, and I believe those books suggest that reading the question stem first is the way to go?

Yes, the Trainer and Manhattan and Blueprint all teach to read the question stem first, then the stimulus so you know what you're looking for in the stimulus.

[MAPP]

Yes, the Trainer and Manhattan and Blueprint all teach to read the question stem first, then the stimulus so you know what you're looking for in the stimulus.

That's what I thought, and that's one of the reasons I have seen other TLSers give as to why those two books are superior to powerscore.

[ColonizeMars]

Yes, the Trainer and Manhattan and Blueprint all teach to read the question stem first, then the stimulus so you know what you're looking for in the stimulus.

That's what I thought, and that's one of the reasons I have seen other TLSers give as to why those two books are superior to powerscore.

I use Trainer, Powerscore and Superprep, and noticed how this is a discussion in both Trainer and Powerscore. Powerscore even "calls out" that others' strategy of reading the question first is flawed. After trying both strategies, I find it simpler to just read the stimulus first. One of the above comment is right that we are able to predict the type of question it is just by reading the stimulus; I can do so to a certain degree. So, it comes down to what works for us rather than what reputable source has got it right.

[ngogirl12]

Yes, the Trainer and Manhattan and Blueprint all teach to read the question stem first, then the stimulus so you know what you're looking for in the stimulus.

That's what I thought, and that's one of the reasons I have seen other TLSers give as to why those two books are superior to powerscore.

I use Trainer, Powerscore and Superprep, and noticed how this is a discussion in both Trainer and Powerscore. Powerscore even "calls out" that others' strategy of reading the question first is flawed. After trying both strategies, I find it simpler to just read the stimulus first. One of the above comment is right that we are able to predict the type of question it is just by reading the stimulus; I can do so to a certain degree. So, it comes down to what works for us rather than what reputable source has got it right.

Yeah. I agree with this..

I tried both approaches and find that I have higher accuracy with reading the question stem first..

Try out both, and do what works in your favor!

[ngogirl12]

Just realized the February test is Saturday, this means we're next!! Ahh...

I absolutely HAVE to stop getting distracted with life and focus focus FOCUS on my schedule this time!

[ms9]

Assuming everyone in here is going to be applying for the 2016/17 cycle.

Anyway, here are two early, hopefully useful links. The first is a road-map of all of the "fun" things you will have to do to apply to/go to law school.

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/naviga ... admission/

The next are the dates (previously) that law school admissions offices opened applications. These will likely be the same for most schools as they rarely change the dates. But we will update early this summer:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/open/

I also plan on tweeting these today, which may be easier to bookmark than on this thread which will likely become 800 pages long. Enjoy!

[MAPP]

Try out both, and do what works in your favor!

+1

[MAPP]

Assuming everyone in here is going to be applying for the 2016/17 cycle.

Anyway, here are two early, hopefully useful links. The first is a road-map of all of the "fun" things you will have to do to apply to/go to law school.

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/naviga ... admission/

The next are the dates (previously) that law school admissions offices opened applications. These will likely be the same for most schools as they rarely change the dates. But we will update early this summer:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/open/

I also plan on tweeting these today, which may be easier to bookmark than on this thread which will likely become 800 pages long. Enjoy!

I'm sure you get this question a lot, but how much of an advantage is it to apply a few days after schools start accepting applications vs. a few days after September lsat scores have gone out?

[StopLawying]

I know everyone says that the LSAT is a standardized exam and that all tests are of equal difficulty. But part of me thinks that the LSAT intentionally makes the June test more difficult/tighter curve so that more people can retake the test, which means more $$$ for LSAC.
Please allay my fears.

[railyard]

I read the stimulus first, I find that easier. Eventually my hope is to predict what type of question I am reading.

[R. Jeeves]

I know everyone says that the LSAT is a standardized exam and that all tests are of equal difficulty. But part of me thinks that the LSAT intentionally makes the June test more difficult/tighter curve so that more people can retake the test, which means more $$$ for LSAC.
Please allay my fears.

dont the scores pretty consistently correspond to the same percentiles?

[ms9]

Assuming everyone in here is going to be applying for the 2016/17 cycle.

Anyway, here are two early, hopefully useful links. The first is a road-map of all of the "fun" things you will have to do to apply to/go to law school.

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/naviga ... admission/

The next are the dates (previously) that law school admissions offices opened applications. These will likely be the same for most schools as they rarely change the dates. But we will update early this summer:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/open/

I also plan on tweeting these today, which may be easier to bookmark than on this thread which will likely become 800 pages long. Enjoy!

I'm sure you get this question a lot, but how much of an advantage is it to apply a few days after schools start accepting applications vs. a few days after September lsat scores have gone out?

Not much at all. Most admissions offices (Duke, UVA seeming to be exceptions of late) don't start reviewing until they stop the travel season, around Nov. 1.

[patttt]

Yes, the Trainer and Manhattan and Blueprint all teach to read the question stem first, then the stimulus so you know what you're looking for in the stimulus.

That's what I thought, and that's one of the reasons I have seen other TLSers give as to why those two books are superior to powerscore.

Yeah but you guys are overlooking the fact that reading the question stem first is a waste of time for skilled test takers for the reasons I mentioned before. I can see why these books recommend that method; they need to cater to everyone, and most test takers aren't capable of scoring very highly, so reading the stem is probably better for them.

Like I said, you don't need to go into the stimulus "knowing what to look for" because if you adequately prepped and are adequately skilled at LR, what you need to know should pop right out at you.

Another huge problem with reading the stem first is that if you're thinking too hard about what you need to look for to answer the question, you'll probably miss the main point, which is pretty often sufficient to answering the question. Go into every stimulus thinking about argument structure and the main point, and you'll pretty quickly realize that knowing what the question stem is beforehand is pretty irrelevant.

[audaz]

I know everyone says that the LSAT is a standardized exam and that all tests are of equal difficulty. But part of me thinks that the LSAT intentionally makes the June test more difficult/tighter curve so that more people can retake the test, which means more $$$ for LSAC.
Please allay my fears.

dont the scores pretty consistently correspond to the same percentiles?

if by chance the june administration ends up being more difficult, this will be reflected in the curve. ^^the percentiles are remarkably consistent.
the exam overall is very consistent. I wouldn't fret about the june administration being harder than any other.

[aghassemi91]

So, I know the idea of having an online study group has come up a few times on this thread & we haven't had much luck getting it going. I want to let anyone that's interested know that I'm putting together a study group on Google Hangouts for the people that want to work on specific things together & get any help that they may need. I just need to know when a good time for the people that are interested is (I was thinking either Saturdays or Sundays; it can of course be flexible & more than once a week) & also your username so I can add you to the group; feel free to PM me or just post it on here if you'd like. We can try Google Hangout for a while & if a better way of working online comes up, then we can switch over to that if needed. I'm looking forward to working with everyone that's interested

[patttt]

So, I know the idea of having an online study group has come up a few times on this thread & we haven't had much luck getting it going. I want to let anyone that's interested know that I'm putting together a study group on Google Hangouts for the people that want to work on specific things together & get any help that they may need. I just need to know when a good time for the people that are interested is (I was thinking either Saturdays or Sundays; it can of course be flexible & more than once a week) & also your username so I can add you to the group; feel free to PM me or just post it on here if you'd like. We can try Google Hangout for a while & if a better way of working online comes up, then we can switch over to that if needed. I'm looking forward to working with everyone that's interested

Good idea. PM me your hangouts username or email and I'll message you. Hopefully more people do this so we can get a group chat going and we can more easily coordinate study sessions.