The Official September 2016 Study Group - WAKE ME UP WHEN SEPTEMBER ENDS Forum

[Mikey]

Just finished 2 5-game sets under 35 minutes, going -1/-0. Feeling stronger and stronger on LG.


The more I think about, the more I realize the rest of my prep is going to be taking and retaking full length PT's.

You did 2 5 game sets in under 35 minutes? Seems very impressive but what do you mean by this? I'm kind of confused lol. Is it 8 games with each having 5 questions each? Or is it something else?

[Alexandros]

.

[20170322]

Just finished 2 5-game sets under 35 minutes, going -1/-0. Feeling stronger and stronger on LG.


The more I think about, the more I realize the rest of my prep is going to be taking and retaking full length PT's.

You did 2 5 game sets in under 35 minutes? Seems very impressive but what do you mean by this? I'm kind of confused lol. Is it 8 games with each having 5 questions each? Or is it something else?

Oh oh no no my b. I did two sets of 5 games, each set taking under 35 minutes to complete. So like, a normal LG section, plus one game.

[Mikey]

Just finished 2 5-game sets under 35 minutes, going -1/-0. Feeling stronger and stronger on LG.


The more I think about, the more I realize the rest of my prep is going to be taking and retaking full length PT's.

You did 2 5 game sets in under 35 minutes? Seems very impressive but what do you mean by this? I'm kind of confused lol. Is it 8 games with each having 5 questions each? Or is it something else?

Oh oh no no my b. I did two sets of 5 games, each set taking under 35 minutes to complete. So like, a normal LG section, plus one game.

Ahhhhh ok I get it now, lol. That's still very impressive, nice job!

[studyingeveryday]

Finally starting to improve on my RC in science.

I sort of wish the test was at the end of July. In August I have job training, then classes ramp back up, so I'm worried I won't have enough time to stay sharp before the test.

That's exactly what happened to me last year when I took the October test--just remember that LSAT always comes first, and don't be afraid to let your professors know that you're studying!! You'd be surprised how understanding they could be and you give in certain assignments or do tests after your LSAT.

[34iplaw]

I feel like we are similar as to where we are in regards to logic games. I actually just began reading the MLSAT Logic games today. I only got the through half or so of the LG Bible and have decided to make the jump. I too actually have been staying up at night just binge watching 7Sage videos and it is honestly helped. I am actually starting to feel more positive about LGs. I have been putting quite a bit of time drilling and reading prep materials on them, and it seems to be paying off. I need to just get a mastery over the advanced ordering/ relative ordering and then I will move on to grouping/advanced grouping. I am hoping I can get a good hold over those quicker because some of the advanced ordering games have grouping elements involved.

That book sounds interesting, I had to google it to find out what it is about, haha. I am sure that won't hurt your RC skills.

Good to know about your hook-up with affordable menswear! Once I get some money before law school I want to get another suit or two. I only have 1-2 at this point, but can't have too many.

'Tried to get rid of some of that giant wall of text. Yeah, we definitely are, and you must be reading my mind. I was a bit tired from driving around most of the day, so I did the exact same thing and just finished reading through the first section of Manhattan LG. It's fairly light reading and it's reinforcing a lot of what I know. The only difference is that I use frames, scenarios, whatever you want to call it very heavily. I agree to an extent. I really just think it's about putting the hours into doing them. I totally agree. I tend to make sure I'm watching games I know if I'm really tired. I don't think it's good to like watch a challenging game if you're not 100% [or, at the very least, you have to watch it again].

Yeah - I think that's the way to do it. I'm fairly confident with all of the simple ordering packet. Relative ordering I find super easy... I'm not sure why. I finish most of those games in the CP in 3min30s or less. I think it's because they all follow the same sort of set up, but there is one question that seems to sort of repeatably trip me up [top 3 sodas IIRC, I always include, I think, O which I know can't be right the second I see the question wrong...I'm like duh.] Advanced ordering I am fairly confident with, since I performed very strongly going into it cold. I am sure I'll be more than set with those within a week. I think the games I struggle with sometimes still are question heavy games. I really like going in with a pretty full game board, and for certain games it just isn't the right move [i.e. the one they use as a review at end of 1st chapter in Manhattan that is like F_ _ + R and S _ O +]. That's also why I don't think advanced ordering games bother me that much. They tend to be very inference heavy on the front end from what I have seen, but I have yet to do the like last ten games in that pack that are supposed to be harder.

Either way, we'll both keep at it while we play catch up to games SweetTort.

It's like the quintessential piece of humanism/Italian renaissance IMO...always loved the quote [varies a little from translation to translation], "It will be in your power to descend to the lower, brutish forms of life; you will be able, through your own decision, to rise again to the superior orders whose life is divine." It's been my favorite quote for an irrationally long time... i.e. when I was way too young. Haha Hopefully! I just need something I feel is productive towards the LSAT but not specifically LSAT...but it's super short. I have yet to look at RC. I went -2 on June 2007 and don't recall randomly guessing... I didn't time myself explicitly, but I definitely didn't go much over if I did [saw the clock...finished before the hour...not sure whether I started at :30, :25, or :20] and have always been really strong with reading. Either way, I'll have a good diagnostic this Saturday.

Yeah... for suits it's just buy them before you absolutely need one and certain brands are usually available for good values [Hickey Freeman & Eidos [harder to find in a normal/conservative pattern for a good deal] come to mind]. Not strictly affordable by everyone's definition, but you're much better off snagging a Hickey Freeman for $400 than pay whatever Jos A Bank or other discount/outlet retailers charge. The key is that it is canvassed [pinch and roll above each button for a third layer]. Fused suits are garbage and won't last.

[20170322]

Finally starting to improve on my RC in science.

I sort of wish the test was at the end of July. In August I have job training, then classes ramp back up, so I'm worried I won't have enough time to stay sharp before the test.

That's exactly what happened to me last year when I took the October test--just remember that LSAT always comes first, and don't be afraid to let your professors know that you're studying!! You'd be surprised how understanding they could be and you give in certain assignments or do tests after your LSAT.

Yeah, i'm hoping if I do at least an hour a day I'll stay sharp.

[New_Spice180]

Seems like everyone is doing well on Logic games over here! Makes me nervous when I read how well everyone is doing hahah! My problem is while drilling Logic games I don't initially time myself just so I can learn how to make inferences, then I'll watch the 7sage video and try to redo the games a few times after that under timed conditions. What do you guys think of this method?

[34iplaw]

Seems like everyone is doing well on Logic games over here! Makes me nervous when I read how well everyone is doing hahah! My problem is while drilling Logic games I don't initially time myself just so I can learn how to make inferences, then I'll watch the 7sage video and try to redo the games a few times after that under timed conditions. What do you guys think of this method?

Sounds like what I'm doing more or less...

Focus on a game type [start with simple linear -> relative order -> complex ordering]

Read a chapter on simple linear from PS, Manhattan, whatever.

Do those question types. Don't worry about speed. Typically, I would start a timer and flip it upside down that way I would try to work somewhat expeditiously but wouldn't obsess if I was going to go over. I'd see how I did. My main goal would be to get 100% certainty that my answer was right...time is/was secondary at that point. If there was a game I missed or didn't understand, I would watch that video at full attention. If there is a game I got totally right and didn't really struggle with, I'll still watch the video to see if I missed anything, but these sort of consist of my 'late at night' or early in the morning videos.'

I'm definitely getting more comfortable and faster on certain games. Progress on others is not as obvious. Recently started reading through Manhattan LSAT LG, and, what I like, is it's reminding me that I don't necessarily need to frame every game.

[Mikey]

Seems like everyone is doing well on Logic games over here! Makes me nervous when I read how well everyone is doing hahah! My problem is while drilling, Logic games I don't take time into account to learn how to make inferences, then I'll watch the 7sage video and try to redo the games a few times after that under timed conditions. What do you guys think of this method?

From my understanding, your way of learning logic games is that fool proof method by 7sage, I believe? Also, making inferences is a huge part to doing well on logic games. You should really take the time to get to know how to make inferences with rules affecting other rules. If you diagram all possibilities before the questions, you need to make sure you can properly make inferences as well, but this goes for whether you do that or not.

[New_Spice180]

Seems like everyone is doing well on Logic games over here! Makes me nervous when I read how well everyone is doing hahah! My problem is while drilling, Logic games I don't take time into account to learn how to make inferences, then I'll watch the 7sage video and try to redo the games a few times after that under timed conditions. What do you guys think of this method?

From my understanding, your way of learning logic games is that fool proof method by 7sage, I believe? Also, making inferences is a huge part to doing well on logic games. You should really take the time to get to know how to make inferences with rules affecting other rules. If you diagram all possibilities before the questions, you need to make sure you can properly make inferences as well, but this goes for whether you do that or not.

Yeah, that's what I really need work on right now. I'm seeing improvement in RC, and LR after heavy drilling. LG on the other hand, has been left in the dust. How long did it take you guys before you were able to see yourself figuring out game patterns/game boards without much trouble? That's my issue as well, getting that initial set up!

[Mikey]

Seems like everyone is doing well on Logic games over here! Makes me nervous when I read how well everyone is doing hahah! My problem is while drilling, Logic games I don't take time into account to learn how to make inferences, then I'll watch the 7sage video and try to redo the games a few times after that under timed conditions. What do you guys think of this method?

From my understanding, your way of learning logic games is that fool proof method by 7sage, I believe? Also, making inferences is a huge part to doing well on logic games. You should really take the time to get to know how to make inferences with rules affecting other rules. If you diagram all possibilities before the questions, you need to make sure you can properly make inferences as well, but this goes for whether you do that or not.

Yeah, that's what I really need work on right now. I'm seeing improvement in RC, and LR after heavy drilling. LG on the other hand, has been left in the dust. How long did it take you guys before you were able to see yourself figuring out game patterns/game boards without much trouble? That's my issue as well, getting that initial set up!

Yeah drill logic games hard and eventually it will become so repetitive that you'll actually somewhat enjoy (fight me, people) doing them as opposed to RC and LR. For me, it was the first section that I dove into learning, but it took me roughly about a month and a half to learn the games. After that my biggest struggle was timing but as you keep drilling you will get better with timing. Pattern games still fuck with me though

[Barack O'Drama]

I feel like we are similar as to where we are in regards to logic games. I actually just began reading the MLSAT Logic games today. I only got the through half or so of the LG Bible and have decided to make the jump. I too actually have been staying up at night just binge watching 7Sage videos and it is honestly helped. I am actually starting to feel more positive about LGs. I have been putting quite a bit of time drilling and reading prep materials on them, and it seems to be paying off. I need to just get a mastery over the advanced ordering/ relative ordering and then I will move on to grouping/advanced grouping. I am hoping I can get a good hold over those quicker because some of the advanced ordering games have grouping elements involved.

That book sounds interesting, I had to google it to find out what it is about, haha. I am sure that won't hurt your RC skills.

Good to know about your hook-up with affordable menswear! Once I get some money before law school I want to get another suit or two. I only have 1-2 at this point, but can't have too many.

'Tried to get rid of some of that giant wall of text. Yeah, we definitely are, and you must be reading my mind. I was a bit tired from driving around most of the day, so I did the exact same thing and just finished reading through the first section of Manhattan LG. It's fairly light reading and it's reinforcing a lot of what I know. The only difference is that I use frames, scenarios, whatever you want to call it very heavily. I agree to an extent. I really just think it's about putting the hours into doing them. I totally agree. I tend to make sure I'm watching games I know if I'm really tired. I don't think it's good to like watch a challenging game if you're not 100% [or, at the very least, you have to watch it again].

Yeah - I think that's the way to do it. I'm fairly confident with all of the simple ordering packet. Relative ordering I find super easy... I'm not sure why. I finish most of those games in the CP in 3min30s or less. I think it's because they all follow the same sort of set up, but there is one question that seems to sort of repeatably trip me up [top 3 sodas IIRC, I always include, I think, O which I know can't be right the second I see the question wrong...I'm like duh.] Advanced ordering I am fairly confident with, since I performed very strongly going into it cold. I am sure I'll be more than set with those within a week. I think the games I struggle with sometimes still are question heavy games. I really like going in with a pretty full game board, and for certain games it just isn't the right move [i.e. the one they use as a review at end of 1st chapter in Manhattan that is like F_ _ + R and S _ O +]. That's also why I don't think advanced ordering games bother me that much. They tend to be very inference heavy on the front end from what I have seen, but I have yet to do the like last ten games in that pack that are supposed to be harder.

Either way, we'll both keep at it while we play catch up to games SweetTort.

It's like the quintessential piece of humanism/Italian renaissance IMO...always loved the quote [varies a little from translation to translation], "It will be in your power to descend to the lower, brutish forms of life; you will be able, through your own decision, to rise again to the superior orders whose life is divine." It's been my favorite quote for an irrationally long time... i.e. when I was way too young. Haha Hopefully! I just need something I feel is productive towards the LSAT but not specifically LSAT...but it's super short. I have yet to look at RC. I went -2 on June 2007 and don't recall randomly guessing... I didn't time myself explicitly, but I definitely didn't go much over if I did [saw the clock...finished before the hour...not sure whether I started at :30, :25, or :20] and have always been really strong with reading. Either way, I'll have a good diagnostic this Saturday.

Yeah... for suits it's just buy them before you absolutely need one and certain brands are usually available for good values [Hickey Freeman & Eidos [harder to find in a normal/conservative pattern for a good deal] come to mind]. Not strictly affordable by everyone's definition, but you're much better off snagging a Hickey Freeman for $400 than pay whatever Jos A Bank or other discount/outlet retailers charge. The key is that it is canvassed [pinch and roll above each button for a third layer]. Fused suits are garbage and won't last.

We are certainly on the same path to a great score I hope! I am starting relative ordering tomorrow. I just went through the first chapter of MLSAT LG. I really like their approach better than LG Bible. I like how they approach the games and I like their tricks and tips they include. I drilled some of the advanced ordering games from the CP as well.

I suck a relative ordering. I can diagram it right more or less, but understanding what I wrote after I have it down is my problem. I haven't really tried to do much. I tried to do the first practice question in the MLSAT chapter on relative ordering and could only do the first problem before I got stuck. I hope once I read the chapter it all falls into place. It doesn't seem like it will be too hard, just going to be a matter of reading the chapter and drilling those tomorrow. I also want to get the rest of the Advanced ordering games finished. My ultimate goal is to move on to the grouping type games by next week.

You seem to be chugging along nicely and getting a lot better with time. It is always good to be talented in the RC section. I missed a bunch of my diagnostic because I think I was reading too carefully, trying to internalize every detail. I haven't done any RC since my diagnostic almost a month ago. I am going to start once I am confident in LG/LR. So I'll be doing that last...

And you are right! Soon enough we may be as good as Sweet Tort! At least I hope ..

[Barack O'Drama]

Seems like everyone is doing well on Logic games over here! Makes me nervous when I read how well everyone is doing hahah! My problem is while drilling, Logic games I don't take time into account to learn how to make inferences, then I'll watch the 7sage video and try to redo the games a few times after that under timed conditions. What do you guys think of this method?

From my understanding, your way of learning logic games is that fool proof method by 7sage, I believe? Also, making inferences is a huge part to doing well on logic games. You should really take the time to get to know how to make inferences with rules affecting other rules. If you diagram all possibilities before the questions, you need to make sure you can properly make inferences as well, but this goes for whether you do that or not.

Yeah, that's what I really need work on right now. I'm seeing improvement in RC, and LR after heavy drilling. LG on the other hand, has been left in the dust. How long did it take you guys before you were able to see yourself figuring out game patterns/game boards without much trouble? That's my issue as well, getting that initial set up!

Yeah drill logic games hard and eventually it will become so repetitive that you'll actually somewhat enjoy (fight me, people) doing them as opposed to RC and LR. For me, it was the first section that I dove into learning, but it took me roughly about a month and a half to learn the games. After that my biggest struggle was timing but as you keep drilling you will get better with timing. Pattern games still fuck with me though

Hahaha! I am scared of pattern games. Never have done one, nor do I want to start lol

Well I've been focusing on logic games for about 1.5 weeks now and I have gotten 10x better than I was. I'm still a little slow, but I can do most advanced ordering games in about 10-12 minutes or so. I'm getting better at least. I rarely miss questions, and if I do I find I made a stupid mistake and actually understand. At this rate, I am hoping the end of July to be in a good place where I can do every game within time and go -0 on a section.

In short, Mikey is dead on. I read through most of the LGB without drilling and saw little to no improvement. Reading prep material and watching 7Sage videos helps a ton, but until you are drilling the questions on your own, timing yourself, and reviewing mistakes it is hard to see much improvement. At least in my experience.

[Alexandros]

.

[Alexandros]

.

[Barack O'Drama]

Finally managed to hit -0 for an all-new LG section.

That aside, LG has slid noticeably. MUST DRILL MOAR.

Congrats! No such thing as too much drilling!

I'll be going at it hard tomorrow

[20170322]

Finally starting to improve on my RC in science.

I sort of wish the test was at the end of July. In August I have job training, then classes ramp back up, so I'm worried I won't have enough time to stay sharp before the test.

That's exactly what happened to me last year when I took the October test--just remember that LSAT always comes first, and don't be afraid to let your professors know that you're studying!! You'd be surprised how understanding they could be and you give in certain assignments or do tests after your LSAT.

Yeah, i'm hoping if I do at least an hour a day I'll stay sharp.

Out of curiosity, when do your classes start? I'm in a similar situation - will be working full time now through August, then classes, but my classes don't start until early September. I'm planning on taking those three weeks as easy as I possibly can - classes don't usually ramp up here until a bit later, provided I don't get one of those ridiculously early midterms, so I'm hoping it will okay.

Mid-August. But, tbh, I go to Big-State-U, and my classes are a joke. My GPA is a 4.3, so I'm not gonna sweat spending extra time on the LSAT.

[Barack O'Drama]

Finally starting to improve on my RC in science.

I sort of wish the test was at the end of July. In August I have job training, then classes ramp back up, so I'm worried I won't have enough time to stay sharp before the test.

That's exactly what happened to me last year when I took the October test--just remember that LSAT always comes first, and don't be afraid to let your professors know that you're studying!! You'd be surprised how understanding they could be and you give in certain assignments or do tests after your LSAT.

Yeah, i'm hoping if I do at least an hour a day I'll stay sharp.

Out of curiosity, when do your classes start? I'm in a similar situation - will be working full time now through August, then classes, but my classes don't start until early September. I'm planning on taking those three weeks as easy as I possibly can - classes don't usually ramp up here until a bit later, provided I don't get one of those ridiculously early midterms, so I'm hoping it will okay.

Mid-August. But, tbh, I go to Big-State-U, and my classes are a joke. My GPA is a 4.3, so I'm not gonna sweat spending extra time on the LSAT.

4.3...Damn!!! Good stuff. With your LSAT you are looking at HYS for sure. I think you're going to have a killer cycle.

[20170322]

Finally starting to improve on my RC in science.

I sort of wish the test was at the end of July. In August I have job training, then classes ramp back up, so I'm worried I won't have enough time to stay sharp before the test.

That's exactly what happened to me last year when I took the October test--just remember that LSAT always comes first, and don't be afraid to let your professors know that you're studying!! You'd be surprised how understanding they could be and you give in certain assignments or do tests after your LSAT.

Yeah, i'm hoping if I do at least an hour a day I'll stay sharp.

Out of curiosity, when do your classes start? I'm in a similar situation - will be working full time now through August, then classes, but my classes don't start until early September. I'm planning on taking those three weeks as easy as I possibly can - classes don't usually ramp up here until a bit later, provided I don't get one of those ridiculously early midterms, so I'm hoping it will okay.

Mid-August. But, tbh, I go to Big-State-U, and my classes are a joke. My GPA is a 4.3, so I'm not gonna sweat spending extra time on the LSAT.

4.3...Damn!!! Good stuff. With your LSAT you are looking at HYS for sure. I think you're going to have a killer cycle.

Thanks! Yeah, I was pumped when I sent in my transcripts and I saw the GPA. Hoping I can get an LSAT commensurate to it. Then I just have to overcome being K-JD... haha

[34iplaw]

Does anyone have any examples or know of more challenging relative ordering games?

I just read through that chapter in the Manhattan LG, and their examples were far above what I saw in my Cambridge packet. Are those categorized differently by Cambridge? Are they in the latter portion of the complex ordering that I have not got to yet?

The game in Manhattan LG that I'm referring to is PT51-S4-G2. I got it all right, but it took seven minutes-eight minutes [bad initial diagramming error that wasted a minute...well not an error, but I got worked up and thought it was]... either way, all the games I have in my packets in relative ordering section are ridiculously easy by comparison [3:30 or less] and do not have multiple trees.

[34iplaw]

Finally starting to improve on my RC in science.

I sort of wish the test was at the end of July. In August I have job training, then classes ramp back up, so I'm worried I won't have enough time to stay sharp before the test.

That's exactly what happened to me last year when I took the October test--just remember that LSAT always comes first, and don't be afraid to let your professors know that you're studying!! You'd be surprised how understanding they could be and you give in certain assignments or do tests after your LSAT.

Yeah, i'm hoping if I do at least an hour a day I'll stay sharp.

Out of curiosity, when do your classes start? I'm in a similar situation - will be working full time now through August, then classes, but my classes don't start until early September. I'm planning on taking those three weeks as easy as I possibly can - classes don't usually ramp up here until a bit later, provided I don't get one of those ridiculously early midterms, so I'm hoping it will okay.

Mid-August. But, tbh, I go to Big-State-U, and my classes are a joke. My GPA is a 4.3, so I'm not gonna sweat spending extra time on the LSAT.

4.3...Damn!!! Good stuff. With your LSAT you are looking at HYS for sure. I think you're going to have a killer cycle.

Thanks! Yeah, I was pumped when I sent in my transcripts and I saw the GPA. Hoping I can get an LSAT commensurate to it. Then I just have to overcome being K-JD... haha

It sounds like you'll be more than fine, but, yeah, I wouldn't want to kill that GPA with a bad LSAT... then again, you seem to be doing quite well and are well on the track to 172+ [I say 172 on the low end / have a bad testing day] which is *still* probably enough to get you into HYS. Then again, I dunno if K-JD scores are substantially more competitive or not. Hopefully, they are so it helps my older self out haha.

You're going to be great.

[Barack O'Drama]

Finally starting to improve on my RC in science.

I sort of wish the test was at the end of July. In August I have job training, then classes ramp back up, so I'm worried I won't have enough time to stay sharp before the test.

That's exactly what happened to me last year when I took the October test--just remember that LSAT always comes first, and don't be afraid to let your professors know that you're studying!! You'd be surprised how understanding they could be and you give in certain assignments or do tests after your LSAT.

Yeah, i'm hoping if I do at least an hour a day I'll stay sharp.

Out of curiosity, when do your classes start? I'm in a similar situation - will be working full time now through August, then classes, but my classes don't start until early September. I'm planning on taking those three weeks as easy as I possibly can - classes don't usually ramp up here until a bit later, provided I don't get one of those ridiculously early midterms, so I'm hoping it will okay.

Mid-August. But, tbh, I go to Big-State-U, and my classes are a joke. My GPA is a 4.3, so I'm not gonna sweat spending extra time on the LSAT.

4.3...Damn!!! Good stuff. With your LSAT you are looking at HYS for sure. I think you're going to have a killer cycle.

Thanks! Yeah, I was pumped when I sent in my transcripts and I saw the GPA. Hoping I can get an LSAT commensurate to it. Then I just have to overcome being K-JD... haha

I think Yale prefers w/e, but it can be overcome, especially with your amazing numbers. You're completely on track to kill that LSAT, so just figure a 4.3 and a 174+; very competitive anyway you slice or dice it. All schools seems to prefer work experience, but with your numbers I don't think that's going to be a problem. I know Yale usually requires extraordinary softs, but if you can manage to get an LSAT at or above their 75% you should be sitting pretty. I have a 3.9 and hoping to get a damn 170+ and have a shot at H, Columbia, NYU. Those are my top picks. But I have been working for a year since I graduated last May, and it is nothing that great. My softs are average at best. However, I'm glad I dedicated my time to getting good grades. I think the numbers will ultimately be more important than a couple extra clubs and internships I could have done. I'm really, really trying to get into Harvard.

Where is your top pick(s) SweetTort?

[Barack O'Drama]

Does anyone have any examples or know of more challenging relative ordering games?

I just read through that chapter in the Manhattan LG, and their examples were far above what I saw in my Cambridge packet. Are those categorized differently by Cambridge? Are they in the latter portion of the complex ordering that I have not got to yet?

The game in Manhattan LG that I'm referring to is PT51-S4-G2. I got it all right, but it took seven minutes-eight minutes [bad initial diagramming error that wasted a minute...well not an error, but I got worked up and thought it was]... either way, all the games I have in my packets in relative ordering section are ridiculously easy by comparison [3:30 or less] and do not have multiple trees.

Just started the chapter on relative ordering games about 2 hours ago. I'm getting the hang of it. They make my damn head hurt for some reason. They aren't even that hard, but they just mess with me because I've been doing simple/advanced ordering games for over a week.

I don't know any off hand, but I will check through the games that LSAT Trainer lists as relative ordering and see if anything there can throw you a curve ball. I'm hoping one of these shows up in September, because it seems like something I could get down pretty consistently. So long as it isn't a weird one... Manhattan LSAT has really changed my entire test-taking life. If you're looking for a 170+ these books are the way to go. I did love the Bibles, but I'm getting through these faster, understanding more, and getting some confidence back. It might be a placebo effect of changing companies, but LSAT Trainer---> MLSAT = 170+

Good job at getting the relative ordering games down. Under 4 minutes is freaking impressive. Any tips/tricks lol?

[34iplaw]

Does anyone have any examples or know of more challenging relative ordering games?

I just read through that chapter in the Manhattan LG, and their examples were far above what I saw in my Cambridge packet. Are those categorized differently by Cambridge? Are they in the latter portion of the complex ordering that I have not got to yet?

The game in Manhattan LG that I'm referring to is PT51-S4-G2. I got it all right, but it took seven minutes-eight minutes [bad initial diagramming error that wasted a minute...well not an error, but I got worked up and thought it was]... either way, all the games I have in my packets in relative ordering section are ridiculously easy by comparison [3:30 or less] and do not have multiple trees.

Just started the chapter on relative ordering games about 2 hours ago. I'm getting the hang of it. They make my damn head hurt for some reason. They aren't even that hard, but they just mess with me because I've been doing simple/advanced ordering games for over a week.

I don't know any off hand, but I will check through the games that LSAT Trainer lists as relative ordering and see if anything there can throw you a curve ball. I'm hoping one of these shows up in September, because it seems like something I could get down pretty consistently. So long as it isn't a weird one... Manhattan LSAT has really changed my entire test-taking life. If you're looking for a 170+ these books are the way to go. I did love the Bibles, but I'm getting through these faster, understanding more, and getting some confidence back. It might be a placebo effect of changing companies, but LSAT Trainer---> MLSAT = 170+
S2G1
Good job at getting the relative ordering games down. Under 4 minutes is freaking impressive. Any tips/tricks lol?

It may be somewhat from memory, but those are usually the ones with fairly straight forward branches. Just redid the RO Cambridge Pack and got every question right and times were as follows... I think the key is same as in a lot of games... think about what things can move around a lot and what can't. I also tend to ignore parts of the branch that aren't super relevant. While I do it intuitively, I think the Manhattan method of making sure you pay attention who can/can't be in first and who can/can't be in last is pretty key. Otherwise, these games are basically done in the first minute or minute and a half. I think these games specifically were made for visual/haptic learners

PT2S3G1 [5 questions] - 3:30 [a fairly straight forward tree...only two possible ways it can play out... trick is mainly that they want to slip people up with the two stacked days while they blow through this problem I think]

previous attempt: 3:30 5 out of 5 right; no change

PT33S4G1 [5 questions] - 7:00 [was an idiot and this included time to redraw the game / reread rules]

previous attempt: 4:45 5 out of 5 right; big slow down from redrawing game this time but somewhat comforting that I am getting better at others rather than just remembering everything

PT4S3G1 [6 questions] - 3:20 [very straight forward like PTS3G1; they are mainly testing to see if you can understand how locking N somewhere impacts things... I think this game probably benefited from memory of that sort of idea]

previous attempt: 3:45 5 out of 5 right; modestly faster this time

PT38S2G1 [7 questions] - 7:00 [straight forward game, but a lot of questions... only two mostly free agents]

previous attempt: 7:30 7 out of 7 right; marginally faster this time

PT6S4G2 [5 questions] - 5:30

previous attempt: 5:00 3 out of 5 right; higher accuracy marginally slower...one of the previous wrong ones is the stupid soda thing but I got it this time

PT10S2G1 [5 questions] - 5:00 [pretty straight forward IMO, the grouping element (?) is sort of interesting, but not really that challenging]

previous attempt: 5:15 5 out of 5 right; microscopically faster

PT1S2G3 [5 questions] - 4:30

previous attempt: 5:30 4 out of 5 right; noticeably faster and better accuracy...previous mistake was an idiotic mistake.

I think you may benefit from just repetition. I am sort of similar. It's like I took physics twice in high school - once regular, once AP. In regular physics, I actually had to study to do well. In AP physics, I rarely ever opened a book and did comparatively better... I just had a better intuitive understanding the second time around.

Edit: added previous times/number right/wrong to previous attempts...mainly for my own benefit as I saw my old copies when I went to put them in my binder of questions.