June 2014 Retakers Forum

[rebexness]

For all of you retakers (especially third time retakers), why are your nerves dwindling? Is it because you already have a decent score locked up? I have never heard for anyone on this site going down on a retake but I have heard lots of stories like 167-169-173

My nerves have increased with every retake. I almost threw up and ran from the test room last time.

[Pragmatic Gun]

For all of you retakers (especially third time retakers), why are your nerves dwindling? Is it because you already have a decent score locked up? I have never heard for anyone on this site going down on a retake but I have heard lots of stories like 167-169-173

My nerves have increased with every retake. I almost threw up and ran from the test room last time.

What helped on the second is that I felt really prepared. I brought a hard-boiled egg and a banana for snack (potassium, complex crabs, sugars, protein, and healthy fat? perfect snacks). I did push ups and crunches to maintain my energy level up and to relax myself. I should have slept more the night before, but I was okay.

You have to find a personalized means of managing your stress, although I don't see why eating nutritious foods and exercising wouldn't help any living human being for anything in general.

[dasani13]

I had 3 (!!) birthday dinners that I couldn't get out of this week so I'm sorry for being MIA in the review sessions. I'll be doing some drilling/reviewing this weekend to get back on track with everyone so I'll be ready to review PT 63 on Sunday night. Let me know if anyone else would like to join us. No more birthdays until June so this is the last time I'll fall behind on our PT schedule!

[dd235]

Took PT57 today...

LG: -0 (went 2 minutes over... Not bad for Mauve Dinos, eh?)
LR1: -0
LR2: -2
RC: -3 (5 minutes over?!?)

Raw 96
Scaled 176!

So, I cheated. I took an extra 2 minutes on LG and an extra 5 minutes on RC (I’m a horrible person, I know). Nonetheless, I am still thrilled with my score! I know PT57 is one of the harder ones (Mauve Dinos, Cather, Fractal Geometry), and it really didn’t seem too bad to me.

I somehow magically jumped into the 175+ range. I have taken over 30 PTs and never once scored 175+, yet I have broken the barrier in the past three consecutive PTs. I really have no explanation for it. One day I’m PTing in 170 range, the next I’m 175+. Is this what it was like for those of you who broke into the 175+ range?

Another thing to note is that I am really screwing up on timing in RC. I am getting confident in my ability to answer the questions correctly, but just can’t seem to get the timing down. Any advice for this?

Good luck to everyone else this week!

[dd235]

Hey Dave,

I was wondering if you had any tips for retakers who have used up all of their PTs and how much of an affect this has, since I am assuming by the time you reached your 180 you must have looked at every exam countless times. Luckily most of the newer PTs I've only gone through once but how approximate of a gauge do your think those exams can be for your abilities on a fresh exam.

Based on my experience with my students, I think that taking tests that you've already seen before is likely to be quite indicative of your current ability. Sure, you may remember some features of some of the material, but those sorts of recollections are generally as prone to misleading you as to helping you (consider many times you thought to yourself, "I remember this! I HATED this question. Now, was (C) the right answer and I picked (E), or was it the other way around? YEGADS! I STILL HATE THIS QUESTION!").

One thing I'd like to do, if I can, is shift your focus a bit, toward viewing PrepTests as learning vehicles, rather than just progression meters. I mean, it really doesn't matter to your life at all how many questions you got right on any practice test. Really. In absolute earnest truth, you could miss every single question on a practice exam, and still come out of that experience a better LSAT-taker, if you use those questions to understand what the test wants from you and how the test writers like to phrase right answers.

So, knowing that results of tests you've taken before cannot be perfect indicators of your current ability (though still believing, as I do, that they are good indicators), let us use those performances not as score-markers (so, try not to think "I got a 169 on that re-test, which means I should have gotten a 167 if it were a fresh test"). Instead, let's use those performances as experience points.

Success is not measured in scaled scores; it's measured by how many of the questions you understand. So, yeah, maybe you got a 161 or whatever on a re-test, but what's really meaningful about the experience is that you know why the right answers are correct for over 80% of the questions now. That's the kind of knowledge that you can be certain is reliable; it's the knowledge on which your score will depend.

I really hope “The guy who got 3 180s” is right about this...

[Otunga]

Hey Dave,

I was wondering if you had any tips for retakers who have used up all of their PTs and how much of an affect this has, since I am assuming by the time you reached your 180 you must have looked at every exam countless times. Luckily most of the newer PTs I've only gone through once but how approximate of a gauge do your think those exams can be for your abilities on a fresh exam.

Based on my experience with my students, I think that taking tests that you've already seen before is likely to be quite indicative of your current ability. Sure, you may remember some features of some of the material, but those sorts of recollections are generally as prone to misleading you as to helping you (consider many times you thought to yourself, "I remember this! I HATED this question. Now, was (C) the right answer and I picked (E), or was it the other way around? YEGADS! I STILL HATE THIS QUESTION!").

One thing I'd like to do, if I can, is shift your focus a bit, toward viewing PrepTests as learning vehicles, rather than just progression meters. I mean, it really doesn't matter to your life at all how many questions you got right on any practice test. Really. In absolute earnest truth, you could miss every single question on a practice exam, and still come out of that experience a better LSAT-taker, if you use those questions to understand what the test wants from you and how the test writers like to phrase right answers.

So, knowing that results of tests you've taken before cannot be perfect indicators of your current ability (though still believing, as I do, that they are good indicators), let us use those performances not as score-markers (so, try not to think "I got a 169 on that re-test, which means I should have gotten a 167 if it were a fresh test"). Instead, let's use those performances as experience points.

Success is not measured in scaled scores; it's measured by how many of the questions you understand. So, yeah, maybe you got a 161 or whatever on a re-test, but what's really meaningful about the experience is that you know why the right answers are correct for over 80% of the questions now. That's the kind of knowledge that you can be certain is reliable; it's the knowledge on which your score will depend.

I really hope “The guy who got 3 180s” is right about this...

Excellent post.

[SpiritofFire]

Hey Dave,

I was wondering if you had any tips for retakers who have used up all of their PTs and how much of an affect this has, since I am assuming by the time you reached your 180 you must have looked at every exam countless times. Luckily most of the newer PTs I've only gone through once but how approximate of a gauge do your think those exams can be for your abilities on a fresh exam.

Based on my experience with my students, I think that taking tests that you've already seen before is likely to be quite indicative of your current ability. Sure, you may remember some features of some of the material, but those sorts of recollections are generally as prone to misleading you as to helping you (consider many times you thought to yourself, "I remember this! I HATED this question. Now, was (C) the right answer and I picked (E), or was it the other way around? YEGADS! I STILL HATE THIS QUESTION!").

One thing I'd like to do, if I can, is shift your focus a bit, toward viewing PrepTests as learning vehicles, rather than just progression meters. I mean, it really doesn't matter to your life at all how many questions you got right on any practice test. Really. In absolute earnest truth, you could miss every single question on a practice exam, and still come out of that experience a better LSAT-taker, if you use those questions to understand what the test wants from you and how the test writers like to phrase right answers.

So, knowing that results of tests you've taken before cannot be perfect indicators of your current ability (though still believing, as I do, that they are good indicators), let us use those performances not as score-markers (so, try not to think "I got a 169 on that re-test, which means I should have gotten a 167 if it were a fresh test"). Instead, let's use those performances as experience points.

Success is not measured in scaled scores; it's measured by how many of the questions you understand. So, yeah, maybe you got a 161 or whatever on a re-test, but what's really meaningful about the experience is that you know why the right answers are correct for over 80% of the questions now. That's the kind of knowledge that you can be certain is reliable; it's the knowledge on which your score will depend.

I really hope “The guy who got 3 180s” is right about this...

Seriously... Otherwise I've just been fooling myself >.<

[dasani13]

PT 55 game 4 is such a buzzkill.

[Learn_Live_Hope]

PT 55 game 4 is such a buzzkill.

[rebexness]

I am oddly excited for my "do nothing but study for the lsat and lay by the pool" vacation.

[Otunga]

PT 55 game 4 is such a buzzkill.

I did that today and yeah, I agree. I've done it multiple times and it's tough. Some of the game rules are difficult to construe at first.

[alecks]

PT 55 overall was kind of a buzzkill. I thought the test overall felt pretty tough.

[dasani13]

It's so hard driving to the library in this weather but it's time to go ham on PT 63.

[rebexness]

It's so hard driving to the library in this weather but it's time to go ham on PT 63.

Ugh I know this feel.

[180kickflip]

Finished PT53 just now.

LR1 -3
LG -3
LR2 -4
RC -7

83 Raw , scaled 165

Pretty much cemented RC as my weak area (timing in particular). Same raw# as my last PT, so at least I'm consistent. I haven't BR'd it all yet, but two of my LG misses were the last two questions in the section that I had to guess due to time. Looking at them now, those would've been easy if I had time to get to them.

My RC timing is always off because I get stuck on questions and can't pick an answer or just let go. I read the passages in 2 to 2.5 mins every time. It sucks because I know how bad it is to let one or two questions (that I usually end up getting wrong anyway) put me under pressure for the whole section =/

[dasani13]

Just finished as well. I accidentally did 4 sections in a row because I'm an idiot so I almost passed out on that 4th one.

[rebexness]

PT 65

LR 1: -2
LG: -2 (i missbubbled the first question. srsly.)
RC: -2
LR 2: -4
LG exp: -3 (I did 4 grouping games and spent 15 min on the first one- jfc. all errors were from that game)

Raw: 91
Score: 173

[Learn_Live_Hope]

PT 65

LR 1: -2
LG: -2 (i missbubbled the first question. srsly.)
RC: -2
LR 2: -4
LG exp: -3 (I did 4 grouping games and spent 15 min on the first one- jfc. all errors were from that game)

Raw: 91
Score: 173

congrats!

we are getting closer to the test...

[Learn_Live_Hope]

Just finished as well. I accidentally did 4 sections in a row because I'm an idiot so I almost passed out on that 4th one.

how did you do? I'm pretty sure you did well

[dasani13]

Just finished as well. I accidentally did 4 sections in a row because I'm an idiot so I almost passed out on that 4th one.

how did you do? I'm pretty sure you did well

I didn't lol. But it's ok because I'm PISSED now lol so I'll take out all my anger on the next PT.

[dasani13]

PT 65

LR 1: -2
LG: -2 (i missbubbled the first question. srsly.)
RC: -2
LR 2: -4
LG exp: -3 (I did 4 grouping games and spent 15 min on the first one- jfc. all errors were from that game)

Raw: 91
Score: 173

Nice!!

[dasani13]

Do you guys have/plan on using the 180 watch on test day?

[SpiritofFire]

I actually made my own, using the Casio recommended by he lsat blog. I added little markers for 8:45s increments.

It has the rotating rim to keep track so you don't need to adjust the needle each section. Check it out!

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/ls ... t-day.html

[rebexness]

Do you guys have/plan on using the 180 watch on test day?

One of my waiter friends was going to send me one so hopefully that happens.
I'm terrible at just using my regular watch. I guess I need to add that to things to practice doing.

[dasani13]

I actually made my own, using the Casio recommended by he lsat blog. I added little markers for 8:45s increments.

It has the rotating rim to keep track so you don't need to adjust the needle each section. Check it out!

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/ls ... t-day.html

Do you guys have/plan on using the 180 watch on test day?

One of my waiter friends was going to send me one so hopefully that happens.
I'm terrible at just using my regular watch. I guess I need to add that to things to practice doing.

Cool! I have been using it for PTs but I'm still not sure if I'll use it on test day.