The Official June 2014 Study Group Forum

[mist4bison]

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[alexrodriguez]

starting from question 203 to 228 (the last question)

I had -17 out of 25 from the level 4 necessary assumption questions

Feeling excellent! Best weekend of my life!

For a second I questioned if I was looking at the right answer key... sure enough, I really had -17

[flash21]

starting from question 203 to 228 (the last question)

I had -17 out of 25 from the level 4 necessary assumption questions

Feeling excellent! Best weekend of my life!

For a second I questioned if I was looking at the right answer key... sure enough, I really had -17

Louie,

Clearly you arent ready for level 4.. level 4 NA screw me up pretty bad too. Just go back to level 1-3, go through them untimed, slowly as you need and find the correct answer, and correct yourself if you are wrong

[AcsFoolMike]

Louie,

Clearly you arent ready for level 4.. level 4 NA screw me up pretty bad too. Just go back to level 1-3, go through them untimed, slowly as you need and find the correct answer, and correct yourself if you are wrong

This is sound advice. I'm not sure how you did on level 3, but I might even stay at level 1 and 2 until you're getting those at an extremely high clip (maybe missing one out of every 25-30).

[WaltGrace83]

Louie,

Something that I have learned is that it is better to review the hell out questions before moving on then just wasting material. I KNOW it is HARD. I know it is hard to sit and review for hours and hours and hours without seeing any tangible progress BUT if you review every single nook and cranny of these answers you will undoubtedly get better. Not only will you get better, but you will get better by using as little materials as possible.

I fight the urge everyday to just blow through timed sections or half-ass review to get to new material. Sometimes I fail but most of the time I know that really getting to the heart of these answers will be getting to the heart of what logical reasoning is all about. There are only so many things LR can throw at you and there are only so many answer choices that are possible. Really (and I mean REALLY) understanding every answer choice in drilling will lead to a better understanding of those answer choices you will see with fresh material. I am taking my time and really going through these. I am looking at Manhattan's forums and trying to write as much as possible and ask as many questions as possible. Now it could be that when I look at old questions I studied the hell out of I just remember the right answers...actually I probably do. However, I am confident that this will translate to wrong answers and right answers popping up at me much more easily..

We all believe in everyone here. We CAN absolutely do this. We are among the people that truly care about their futures and we know that having a high LSAT score is imperative. Just trust yourself and remember that you literally have all the time in the world to take this test. Don't get beat up about time running out before June without progress made. Sometimes the LSAT just "clicks" for some people a few months in or (a few months out). We have all heard it happen before. People miraculously go from doing poorly, to quickly developing an understanding, to getting high scores. Sometimes I doubt myself and think "I am going to get owned by this test, I might as well quit now." Yet I have to fight the urge to not trust my abilities and understand that i AM making progress...it might not all be tangible all at once.

Okay what was that word vomit all about? The point is, don't worry about getting a -17 on level 4s. You sound like you are just waiting for a high score to validate yourself. Instead of wanting to cop a high score on a timed set of questions by pure chance, make it so that you are developing skills and understandings.

Seriously. You WILL do this.

[Lsataddict175]

Louie,

Something that I have learned is that it is better to review the hell out questions before moving on then just wasting material. I KNOW it is HARD. I know it is hard to sit and review for hours and hours and hours without seeing any tangible progress BUT if you review every single nook and cranny of these answers you will undoubtedly get better. Not only will you get better, but you will get better by using as little materials as possible.

I fight the urge everyday to just blow through timed sections or half-ass review to get to new material. Sometimes I fail but most of the time I know that really getting to the heart of these answers will be getting to the heart of what logical reasoning is all about. There are only so many things LR can throw at you and there are only so many answer choices that are possible. Really (and I mean REALLY) understanding every answer choice in drilling will lead to a better understanding of those answer choices you will see with fresh material. I am taking my time and really going through these. I am looking at Manhattan's forums and trying to write as much as possible and ask as many questions as possible. Now it could be that when I look at old questions I studied the hell out of I just remember the right answers...actually I probably do. However, I am confident that this will translate to wrong answers and right answers popping up at me much more easily..

We all believe in everyone here. We CAN absolutely do this. We are among the people that truly care about their futures and we know that having a high LSAT score is imperative. Just trust yourself and remember that you literally have all the time in the world to take this test. Don't get beat up about time running out before June without progress made. Sometimes the LSAT just "clicks" for some people a few months in or (a few months out). We have all heard it happen before. People miraculously go from doing poorly, to quickly developing an understanding, to getting high scores. Sometimes I doubt myself and think "I am going to get owned by this test, I might as well quit now." Yet I have to fight the urge to not trust my abilities and understand that i AM making progress...it might not all be tangible all at once.

Okay what was that word vomit all about? The point is, don't worry about getting a -17 on level 4s. You sound like you are just waiting for a high score to validate yourself. Instead of wanting to cop a high score on a timed set of questions by pure chance, make it so that you are developing skills and understandings.

Seriously. You WILL do this.

Great post.

[DuncND2013]

Just took PT 161. First practice test in over a year. Thought the reading comp section was hard as balls. Thought LR One was pretty easy, and LR Two was a little hard. Completely blew the logic games section. Completely whiffed on the first game and frantically had to catch up from there. Was really, really, discouraged afterward--and I'm not just saying this. I knew the LG had ruined me (had to completely guess on three of them alone).

LG -6
RC -0
LR -0
LR -4

171

Needless to say...I'm absolutely stunned. I legitimately thought I was going to end up around my diagnostic (160). The LG section was THAT bad. I'm really pumped now because this test didn't even feel great--now I know I can do it. One thing I learned through this--NEVER give up on a test unless you are absolutely, 100% sure you blew it. Definitely a long way to go until June, but keep working everyone--if you build it, they will come.

[Louis1127]

I thought I would update all of you, since I haven't posted in a while and I know you all are just on the edge of your seats .

I have completed the Trainer and am now drilling LG pithypike style as well as LR and RC, but I won't drill those three times each like I will games. I have gone through the Cambridge Simple Ordering and Relative Ordering twice and I have done a few RC passages (mostly level one and two).

At first, I would miss like 2 per LG game and each game would take me like 25 minutes. The second time around, I averaged missing around one per section and went much faster BUT I counted anything wrong if I "froze up" and took like 5 minutes to solve a problem, even if I got the answer right. Now, I know simple ordering and relative ordering are easy, but if you knew where I started on LG (aka how bad I was), you would understand why I am happy with where I am as of this point. Obviously I want to get way better by June.

On RC, I average about 2 wrong per passage and I do them slower than I should. I just started drilling RC so I'm not concerned that I suck at it as of now. I'll keep practicing and reviewing.

On LR, I am going through Manhattan LR and drilling by type (I am currently drilling flaw questions and haven't gotten very far at all). LR is very intimidating to me right now. I feel like I can describe the argument core in terms of words, but sometimes I feel like I miss the ""real core"- going through the answers on questions that aren't easy takes me like 20 minutes and I miss alot of the hard ones. I know I am just starting out, but LR is scaring me right now.

But I am going to keep working on all three sections with my drilling and I am going to keep reviewing. Just wanted to update everyone. I hope you all are doing well. It will be awesome when we are on the top of the mountain together.

Random note to any users/browers/lurkers who may be inexperienced with LSAT prep: 7sage LG explanations and the Manhattan forums are the greatest thing ever. Peace out.

[lawstudenthopeful727]

Im in the houston area looking for a study group. for june 2014 LSAT.Please lmk if interested!

I live in Huntsville!

[Louis1127]

I have also noticed that I have missed LG questions on multiple occasions because I did not read the question carefully enough (thought it was asking for something different than what it was asking for). So I am currently trying to find that balance between speed and going slow enough that I don't misread questions.

[Straw_Mandible]

I have also noticed that I have missed LG questions on multiple occasions because I did not read the question carefully enough (thought it was asking for something different than what it was asking for). So I am currently trying to find that balance between speed and going slow enough that I don't misread questions.

Speed in LG is all about efficiency of process. It has almost nothing to do with reading questions faster. Your timing will improve if you are able to quickly visualize proper setups, scenarios, and deductions. For most games, the more time you invest in your setup, the more quickly you'll be able to blaze through the questions without testing out ACs with hypos. As for the games that are heavy on conditional questions and light on initial deductions, just trust in the process, and know that these unusually open games are supposed to be a little bit more time-consuming. Don't assume that 8:45 is the benchmark for every game. If your process is efficient, the timing of the section as a whole will balance out. So, if you're not yet doing full timed sections, just focus on your process. Do tough games over again using different strategies, and figure out the most efficient way to solve them.

ETA: Point being, slow down to speed up. If your process is sound, you shouldn't have to worry about sacrificing accuracy for speed.

[FlyingNorth]

I have also noticed that I have missed LG questions on multiple occasions because I did not read the question carefully enough (thought it was asking for something different than what it was asking for). So I am currently trying to find that balance between speed and going slow enough that I don't misread questions.

Speed in LG is all about efficiency of process. It has almost nothing to do with reading questions faster. Your timing will improve if you are able to quickly visualize proper setups, scenarios, and deductions. For most games, the more time you invest in your setup, the more quickly you'll be able to blaze through the questions without testing out ACs with hypos. As for the games that are heavy on conditional questions and light on initial deductions, just trust in the process, and know that these unusually open games are supposed to be a little bit more time-consuming. Don't assume that 8:45 is the benchmark for every game. If your process is efficient, the timing of the section as a whole will balance out. So, if you're not yet doing full timed sections, just focus on your process. Do tough games over again using different strategies, and figure out the most efficient way to solve them.

ETA: Point being, slow down to speed up. If your process is sound, you shouldn't have to worry about sacrificing accuracy for speed.

^This. Great point, straw. You'll notice that accuracy and speed meet when you're not frantically trying to race through a section, but rather moving at a solid pace with confidence.

It's a beautiful thing.

[WaltGrace83]

I myself am having problems with timing. If we read the LR stimulus at a perfect speed, should the right answer always just pop out at us? I am not finding myself finishing too much over on time, I just will have one to three questions per 25 that I never get to. Either way, I shouldn't care until I get my accuracy down pat.

[FlyingNorth]

I myself am having problems with timing. If we read the LR stimulus at a perfect speed, should the right answer always just pop out at us? I am not finding myself finishing too much over on time, I just will have one to three questions per 25 that I never get to. Either way, I shouldn't care until I get my accuracy down pat.

It shouldn't necessarily pop out to you, but after recognizing a question type enough times (via the stem) and the ways the test tries to trick you (via the stimulus), you should be able to almost anticipate the answer when you move to the answer choices.

This is called pre-phrasing. I don't subscribe to the notion that you should actively try to predict what the answer is as you go through your motions, but if you have a good feeling, then it helps when you eliminate wrong choices and choose the right one.

HTH

ETA: This increases speed.

[paglababa]

I myself am having problems with timing. If we read the LR stimulus at a perfect speed, should the right answer always just pop out at us? I am not finding myself finishing too much over on time, I just will have one to three questions per 25 that I never get to. Either way, I shouldn't care until I get my accuracy down pat.

It shouldn't necessarily pop out to you, but after recognizing a question type enough times (via the stem) and the ways the test tries to trick you (via the stimulus), you should be able to almost anticipate the answer when you move to the answer choices.

This is called pre-phrasing. I don't subscribe to the notion that you should actively try to predict what the answer is as you go through your motions, but if you have a good feeling, then it helps when you eliminate wrong choices and choose the right one.

HTH

ETA: This increases speed.

Do cambridge LR drill packets. You'll be finishing in time after doing all of those.

[WaltGrace83]

I myself am having problems with timing. If we read the LR stimulus at a perfect speed, should the right answer always just pop out at us? I am not finding myself finishing too much over on time, I just will have one to three questions per 25 that I never get to. Either way, I shouldn't care until I get my accuracy down pat.

It shouldn't necessarily pop out to you, but after recognizing a question type enough times (via the stem) and the ways the test tries to trick you (via the stimulus), you should be able to almost anticipate the answer when you move to the answer choices.

This is called pre-phrasing. I don't subscribe to the notion that you should actively try to predict what the answer is as you go through your motions, but if you have a good feeling, then it helps when you eliminate wrong choices and choose the right one.

HTH

ETA: This increases speed.

Do cambridge LR drill packets. You'll be finishing in time after doing all of those.

That's what I am doing now. I am drilling either 12/13 questions at a time or 25 questions at time under timed conditions (1:20 per question). Yes, I know that this is not an accurate indicator of whether or not my timing is good - level 3s may take longer or level 1s may not take as long (of course, this is all assuming that Cambridge did a good job of categorizing difficulty which IMHO they really do not). After I drill, I blind review and many times will do a write-up on Manhattan's forums per question.

Yes, it takes forever but I hope this will all lead to LSAT glory. I finished the SA packet and now I am really working hard on the Flaw packet.

[alexrodriguez]

Did 50 Main Conclusion questions yesterday.

Out of the first 35 level ones I had -3.

out of the next 15 level two's I had -6.

Didn't have enough time to review them. Gonna do that today hopefully during my lunch break.

I did all of these non-timed . Am I really getting anything out of this process without timing myself?

I'm obviously not going to have time to think things out during the real test the way I did while I did these questions.

[10052014]

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[WaltGrace83]

Did 50 Main Conclusion questions yesterday.

Out of the first 35 level ones I had -3.

out of the next 15 level two's I had -6.

Didn't have enough time to review them. Gonna do that today hopefully during my lunch break.

I did all of these non-timed . Am I really getting anything out of this process without timing myself?

I'm obviously not going to have time to think things out during the real test the way I did while I did these questions.

No! IF you know what you scored THEN you must have reviewed. There is no excuse for seeing how many you got wrong without review. This is what we are trying to say. If you don't have enough time to review in total then review as much as you can. It sometimes takes me two days to review a set of 25 questions. Why should one do this? Here's why:

If you do the questions and then you check the answers and then you review, you are just finding ways to convince yourself that the right answers are right and the wrong answers are wrong without developing a true understanding of why this is so or finding flaws in your "logic" . If you do the questions then review then check the answers you are figuring out the flaws in your understanding! This is the main purpose of drilling! You really cannot improve without figuring out what you are doing wrong. It is great to make mistakes when you are doing questions un-timed, convincing yourself that answer choices are right and wrong for specific reasons, then finding that you were wrong because this (and only this) will explicitly tell you what you are just not understanding.

Don't get me wrong. It is great to practice regardless of anything. But practice is not nearly as good as the method outlined above. Practice is for PTs. Practice is not for drilling. Otherwise you are just burning through material.

Understand every word. Then revisit the questions. Then come back to them later. Then do it all over again.

Here is my process so I can give you a little more insight:
-Do a timed set of questions (either 12/13 or 25)
-Blind review (this could take hours...and hours..........and hours) each individual question
-After every question go onto Manhattan forum
---Check to see if I got right, Do a write-up on it, etc. etc.etc.

INTERNALIZE THE QUESTIONS. Just scoring them does little.

EDIT: and I personally don't believe in doing drills un-timed first for the very reason you mentioned. However, some people (most people) swear by the method of un-timed drilling. The way that I see it, there is no harm in doing the question timed then un-timed so to speak during the review process. It is like you are getting the best of both worlds! You get to (1) see how you respond in test-like situations and (2) see how good or bad your logic is during review. It's a win-win!

[alexrodriguez]

Practice is for PTs. Practice is not for drilling.

Roger that.

[Lsataddict175]

Really pissed right now. Had a difficult time completing the "Extreme Links" drill in chapter 31 of the Trainer. Anyone else find this drill really difficult? Does anyone have an approach that can make these conditionals easier to solve? The drill took me a long time. Thank you!

[Louis1127]

Since so many of you have helped me, I thought I would share one thing that has taken me a month to realize that I think will help at least someone posting/lurking.

While the Manhattan Forum explanations are truly awesome (I use them for LR and RC, but mainly LR), when you miss a problem, DO NOT GO STRAIGHT TO THE EXPLANATIONS.

Instead, write out why the answer you chose was incorrect BEFORE you see the explanations from one of the experts and write out why the correct answer (that you didn't choose the first time around) is correct, once again before you look at the explanations form one of the experts.

What I have found is I can actually write out a correct explanation (yes-even though I missed the question the first time) and I think I learn way more by doing this than by just immediately looking up an explanation that I couldn't come to on my own and just saying "Oh yeah, that makes sense" in my head.

I wish I had a time machine that I could go back and do this from the beginning of my drilling. Luckily, I have only been drilling LR for like 2 weeks.

Just something I thought I would share that I have learned since so many of you have helped me already, far more than you probably think.

Keep up the good work everyone!

[alexrodriguez]

Since so many of you have helped me, I thought I would share one thing that has taken me a month to realize that I think will help at least someone posting/lurking.

While the Manhattan Forum explanations are truly awesome (I use them for LR and RC, but mainly LR), when you miss a problem, DO NOT GO STRAIGHT TO THE EXPLANATIONS.

Instead, write out why the answer you chose was incorrect BEFORE you see the explanations from one of the experts and write out why the correct answer (that you didn't choose the first time around) is correct, once again before you look at the explanations form one of the experts.

What I have found is I can actually write out a correct explanation (yes-even though I missed the question the first time) and I think I learn way more by doing this than by just immediately looking up an explanation that I couldn't come to on my own and just saying "Oh yeah, that makes sense" in my head.

I wish I had a time machine that I could go back and do this from the beginning of my drilling. Luckily, I have only been drilling LR for like 2 weeks.

Just something I thought I would share that I have learned since so many of you have helped me already, far more than you probably think.

Keep up the good work everyone!

I just did a set of problems and I didn't even check to see whether I had them right or wrong. I basically checked on the forums while I read explanations for every question.

[alexrodriguez]

I'm not sure if I'm going to be ready for the June exam.

I'll be on active duty til March 27th.

I leave Diego Garcia March 6th and I'll be in Norfolk for two to three weeks doing god knows what. I have no idea how much study time I'll have there. Hopefully plenty...

But compared to Jaylawyer I've done nothing. The dude has drilled everything like a madman.

Ive done like 300 to 400 Logic Games, but I'm not even sure if I've covered it all.

Logical Reasoning is going to take a lot of work.

I don't even want to think about RC right now.

But starting March 27 to the exam date I'll have nothing on my plate except for studying. Hopefully this amount of time will be sufficient.

I'd say right now I'm getting 15-20 hours in a week. From March 27th to the exam date I'll probably be studying 40 to an upwards of 56 hours a week.

8 hours a day would be the goal. I'll do LG marathons of just like 20 or 25 in a row or 100-150 LR, and 12-16 RC passages. I can't wait.

But yea, I'm still not sure If I'll be ready. I guess for now my goal is to just drill all of LR before I leave this island.

[alexrodriguez]

I suppose though that we are all better off than the people who don't even realize they'll be sitting in on this exam yet.