For TLSers who get angry when people trivialize their score Forum

[Audio Technica Guy]

My students generally see a 5-10 point bump from studying with me after studying just the bibles alone.

But 5-10 points on the LSAT is just chump change, right?

Yeah, 5-10 points avg improvement will get you to the point where you don't get assigned classes at TPR. you need to be 9-15 avg improvement to keep getting classes and 14+ to be considered a great teacher. The avg improvement for one of our classes is 13 points.

[JohnBoy]

Nikrall, what's "the European system"?

As a tutor I mostly used what I knew from TLS, since I didn't really need to prep myself. All you need is time.

No wonder you thought you were scamming people.

I lol'ed hard...hahaha

[Nikrall]

And conceding that it has benefit for some people does not diminish the fact that test prep is extraordinarily helpful for the large majority of people and is extremely expensive.

It's helpful and expensive. But it's also completely unnecessary. I'm not saying it's equal. I'm saying there's no serious barrier to entry for poor students. They have to work harder but it's not unobtainable. The system in place allows them to prove themselves and their abilities. The rich still have an advantage but it's not large enough to keep out any serious competition. That's not perfect but it's fucking awesome.

That it was unnecessary for you does not mean it is unnecessary for others.

[mallard]

My students generally see a 5-10 point bump from studying with me after studying just the bibles alone.

But 5-10 points on the LSAT is just chump change, right?

Yeah, 5-10 points avg improvement will get you to the point where you don't get assigned classes at TPR. you need to be 9-15 avg improvement to keep getting classes and 14+ to be considered a great teacher. The avg improvement for one of our classes is 13 points.

lol. Sounds like Nikrall is the real scam here.

[Nikrall]

My students generally see a 5-10 point bump from studying with me after studying just the bibles alone.

But 5-10 points on the LSAT is just chump change, right?

Yeah, 5-10 points avg improvement will get you to the point where you don't get assigned classes at TPR. you need to be 9-15 avg improvement to keep getting classes and 14+ to be considered a great teacher. The avg improvement for one of our classes is 13 points.

RC fail.

Do all of your students at PR self-study the bibles before they come in?

I said 5-10 points AFTER studying the bibles.

[Nikrall]

Nikrall, what's "the European system"?

As a tutor I mostly used what I knew from TLS, since I didn't really need to prep myself. All you need is time.

No wonder you thought you were scamming people.

lol. So what do you do with your students?

So wait. Social welfare is a replacement for standardized testing?

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

[romothesavior]

Scott takes one practice test, takes the LSAT virtually cold and gets 150 on LSAT
Scott meets another person with 170 named Suzie
Scott asks Suzie, "How did you get that 170?"
Suzie says, "I studied hard and studied smart. I got all the PS Bibles and did them and also did about 15 PTs. Why did you only get a 150?"
Scott, "I AM POOR AND COUDLN'T AFFORD BOOKS TO STUDY! WAAAAH!"


Romo: No Scott, you are a lazy POS who didn't take the LSAT seriously. Maybe instead of getting drunk and buying the new Call of Duty you should have bought a few books to practice with and found out how to study for the LSAT. HTH

[mallard]

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

So what do you think we should replace standardized testing with?

[JohnBoy]

Scott takes one practice test, takes the LSAT virtually cold and gets 150 on LSAT
Scott meets another person with 170 named Suzie
Scott asks Suzie, "How did you get that 170?"
Suzie says, "I studied hard and studied smart. I got all the PS Bibles and did them and also did about 15 PTs. Why did you only get a 150?"
Scott, "I AM POOR AND COUDLN'T AFFORD BOOKS TO STUDY! WAAAAH!"


Romo: No Scott, you are a lazy POS who didn't take the LSAT seriously. Maybe instead of getting drunk and buying the new Call of Duty you should have bought a few books to practice with and found out how to study for the LSAT. HTH

Have you visited WUSTL yet? Just curious about the campus..

[Patriot1208]

Scott takes one practice test, takes the LSAT virtually cold and gets 150 on LSAT
Scott meets another person with 170 named Suzie
Scott asks Suzie, "How did you get that 170?"
Suzie says, "I studied hard and studied smart. I got all the PS Bibles and did them and also did about 15 PTs. Why did you only get a 150?"
Scott, "I AM POOR AND COUDLN'T AFFORD BOOKS TO STUDY! WAAAAH!"


Romo: No Scott, you are a lazy POS who didn't take the LSAT seriously. Maybe instead of getting drunk and buying the new Call of Duty you should have bought a few books to practice with and found out how to study for the LSAT. HTH

obviously romo is racist, using prototypical white names like that.

[JohnBoy]

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

So what do you think we should replace standardized testing with?

You don't have to identify an alternative solution to know that the current system isn't working

[KibblesAndVick]

Scott takes one practice test, takes the LSAT virtually cold and gets 150 on LSAT
Scott meets another person with 170 named Suzie
Scott asks Suzie, "How did you get that 170?"
Suzie says, "I studied hard and studied smart. I got all the PS Bibles and did them and also did about 15 PTs. Why did you only get a 150?"
Scott, "I AM POOR AND COUDLN'T AFFORD BOOKS TO STUDY! WAAAAH!"


Romo: No Scott, you are a lazy POS who didn't take the LSAT seriously. Maybe instead of getting drunk and buying the new Call of Duty you should have bought a few books to practice with and found out how to study for the LSAT. HTH

obviously romo is racist, using prototypical white names like that.

180 (175 if you're poor)

[Nikrall]

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

So what do you think we should replace standardized testing with?

I didn't say we should replace it with anything. However if there weren't such huge economic disparities in this country, the economic effect of standardized testing would be significantly diminished. Hence the argument for a European social safety net type policies.

[Patriot1208]

Scott takes one practice test, takes the LSAT virtually cold and gets 150 on LSAT
Scott meets another person with 170 named Suzie
Scott asks Suzie, "How did you get that 170?"
Suzie says, "I studied hard and studied smart. I got all the PS Bibles and did them and also did about 15 PTs. Why did you only get a 150?"
Scott, "I AM POOR AND COUDLN'T AFFORD BOOKS TO STUDY! WAAAAH!"


Romo: No Scott, you are a lazy POS who didn't take the LSAT seriously. Maybe instead of getting drunk and buying the new Call of Duty you should have bought a few books to practice with and found out how to study for the LSAT. HTH

Have you visited WUSTL yet? Just curious about the campus..

pm'd

[mallard]

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

So what do you think we should replace standardized testing with?

You don't have to identify an alternative solution to know that the current system isn't working

What do you mean, "isn't working"? It's not like it's broken. There's a problem. I'm asking what alternatives would make the problem better while still serving the objectives of the system.

[romothesavior]

Scott takes one practice test, takes the LSAT virtually cold and gets 150 on LSAT
Scott meets another person with 170 named Suzie
Scott asks Suzie, "How did you get that 170?"
Suzie says, "I studied hard and studied smart. I got all the PS Bibles and did them and also did about 15 PTs. Why did you only get a 150?"
Scott, "I AM POOR AND COUDLN'T AFFORD BOOKS TO STUDY! WAAAAH!"


Romo: No Scott, you are a lazy POS who didn't take the LSAT seriously. Maybe instead of getting drunk and buying the new Call of Duty you should have bought a few books to practice with and found out how to study for the LSAT. HTH

obviously romo is racist, using prototypical white names like that.

I was going to use "Tyrone" and "Allistair" but I figured then this thread would really explode.

[mallard]

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

So what do you think we should replace standardized testing with?

I didn't say we should replace it with anything. However if there weren't such huge economic disparities in this country, the economic effect of standardized testing would be significantly diminished. Hence the argument for a European social safety net type policies.

So your problem isn't with standardized testing at all! What the fuck are you doing in this thread, galloping at windmills? Are you some kind of moron?

[romothesavior]

Have you visited WUSTL yet? Just curious about the campus..

Been there many times. Big fan of it and I will be attending the fall. PM me if you have questions.

[KibblesAndVick]

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

So what do you think we should replace standardized testing with?

I didn't say we should replace it with anything. However if there weren't such huge economic disparities in this country, the economic effect of standardized testing would be significantly diminished. Hence the argument for a European social safety net type policies.

(1) Look up historic European unemployment rates
(2) Shit your pants
(3) Realize you can live off welfare despite unemployment
(4) Sleep easy while contributing little to the economic pie

[Nikrall]

No, its not. But it is helpful to get rid of some of the economic disparities that standardized testing helps to exacerbate.

So what do you think we should replace standardized testing with?

I didn't say we should replace it with anything. However if there weren't such huge economic disparities in this country, the economic effect of standardized testing would be significantly diminished. Hence the argument for a European social safety net type policies.

So your problem isn't with standardized testing at all! What the fuck are you doing in this thread, galloping at windmills? Are you some kind of moron?

Maybe if you had actually, oh I don't know, read what I said, it would have been clear that I didn't come in here attacking the LSAT. The first thing I said was this:

America has low rates of intergenerational mobility. Success usually comes, not from hard work, but from knowing people/being lucky.

The hard work myth is just a way of demonizing the poor and justifying ones own wealth.

That applies to more then just the LSAT.

[rynabrius]

A good many of you will bust your butts all through law school, and then be betrayed by the tanking legal profession. Forced into doc-review work or unemployment, you will then cry in your beer to friends and acquaintances.

They will tell you, "you have no right to cry, you're a lawyer and lawyers are evil and make tons of money for doing nothing!"







Is having how hard you worked on the LSAT trivialized really that bad?

(BTW re: generational mobility -- see the comments here: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/200 ... ous_1.html)

[JohnBoy]

And the discussion was started with the American Dream and how it affects LSAT takers (i.e. you can get a perfect score if you try hard enough)

[mallard]

Right. A test in which test prep is incredibly expensive and it is fairly impossible to do well without lots of study is a good way of increasing intergenerational mobility.

This is where we first disagreed, my amnesiac, hallucinatory LSAT tutor of a TLS friend. You can't throw out bullshit like this unless you have a better way of increasing intergenerational mobility, and it's stupid to even start this argument without the acknowledgment that standardized testing has historically been a good way of increasing intergenerational mobility, and this is why it was introduced.

[bk1]

I think that any real argument for the LSAT seriously being biased against the poor is not in the purchasing of prep materials, but in knowing that you should prep and how to prep.

Just spitballing, but I would think that poorer kids have less of a chance of finding something like TLS that will tell them how much better the PS bibles and real PT's are than taking fake PT's and using some of the really bad prep books out there. This just isn't the sort of thing you can get from the reviews page on Amazon.com.

People prepping with fake PT's probably won't score as high as people using real PT's.

Just a thought.

[JohnBoy]

A good many of you will bust your butts all through law school, and then be betrayed by the tanking legal profession. Forced into doc-review work or unemployment, you will then cry in your beer to friends and acquaintances.

They will tell you, "you have no right to cry, you're a lawyer and lawyers are evil and make tons of money for doing nothing!"







Is having how hard you worked on the LSAT trivialized really that bad?

Things could always be worse, I won't argue that.